Hello Folks, Fawzia here! I was a Quranist for 10 months.

[Fawzia]

Dear Fawzia,

On behalf of all the Quranists, I'd like to nominate you for 'Quranist of the Year' award for your outstanding scholarship and awareness of Quranist issues and methodology on reading  the Quran. Wow, I must say, I've never encountered your kind of brilliance and objectivity before. Tell me, are you married? If not, I'd like to propose marriage to you. I'm sure all our kids will be 'Super-Quranists' thanks to your genes.

Let me quote to you some what you said so we can understand your brilliance.


Fawzia:.

YES ! That's brilliant. Because the Quran has NEVER been misappopriated or mistranslated. All the 'sciences' of understanding the Quran like 'ABROGATION' must be true. Wow.



and
No no, of course we don?t. We can and should trust ALL translators. In fact, the more they are ?against? Islam, the more we should believe them because they are incapable of lies.

and
Yes yes yes! How dare these people try to change what has been written in stone! After all ,the people who understood the Quran before us were the most brilliant human beings on earth. They actually thought Muhammad was bewitched and didn?t  know what he saying.
Yes yes. And we must blame the Quran for this too, since it?s in surah 116, ayah 320. Good point there, Fawzia.


Wow Fawzia, you?re so intelligent. May I inquire , are you a professor of logic at Harvard or Oxford? If so, I?d love to visit you some time. I?m pretty sure you?ll win this ?Quranist of the Year? award. There is only one another nominee : Geert Wilders (but I wouldn?t like to propose to him).

Lovely, long, sarcastic post. I'm not simply speaking of translations-I have spoken to enough Saudi Arabs. Cousin marriages, btw, aren't even due to Fatima & Ali precedent only,unfortunately, there's nowhere in the Quran where cousin marriage is baned, even repeated cousin marriages.

I uderstand the desperation of many Muslims to salvage their faith by insisting that all hadiths are fabricated, even by insisting that the Quran is quite incapable of proper translation, & even Saudi & Yemeni Arabs et al can't read it properly, only the most morally acceptable translations are correct, otherwise its mis translation! 

I was one of these folks too! Fortunately, I was able to see that this sort of massive denial leads to nothing.

[Wakas]

peace Fawzia,

I'd be interested to see a list of your strongest objections to The Quran.

As a side note, I am currently writing an article on the infamous 4:34. GW, I will be finished it shortly, for all to see.

[Fawzia]

AbdalQuran,

Although your sarcasm might be offensive to some, I think you did a good job of not trying to sound too offensive but driving your point home as well. You hit up Fawzia on some really good points that I'm sure she has not fully thought through. Although I would love to know what that incident with her aunt was that the Quran is to blame for. And I love her accusation that Quranists have changed 'beat' to 'leave.' I guess you can't expect her to understand the language aspect of this if she's not even interested in Arabic. I personally accept both 'hit' (it's not beat) AND leave. But if you don't take the whole Quran into context anyone who only wants to follow part of the Quran and follow the rest of their desires will not take other passsages that talk about excessiveness, extremism and trying to harm fellow believers or anyone unjustly. But anyway, I'll just wait to see how she's going to reply to your post (it was funny, wierd, but funny). And I hope she goes into detail about her aunt. Besides that I want to state that as a Quranist I respect her right to choose whatever she wants to believe, even if it does entail a degree of ignorance or unjustified bias. It is her choice. So yeah, Fawzia pls explain about your aunt and I promise you that I will do my best not to ridicule you or disparage you. Although I might be dissapointed and have less respect for you (the opposite could occur) but I will always respect your God given rights to belief and disbelief in the Quran and/or faithfulness and unfaithfulness to God and/or willful ignorance or willful education and pursuit of of understanding and knowledge.

Godbless,
Anwar

I will post about my aunt in detail, maybe somedays later. I don't have inordinate amount of time on my hands. I would make a separate thread on it maybe, for now let me concentrate on these.

But I would surely post in detail.

peace Fawzia,

I'd be interested to see a list of your strongest objections to The Quran.

As a side note, I am currently writing an article on the infamous 4:34. GW, I will be finished it shortly, for all to see.

Yes Wakas, I will surely post the list of my strongest objections to the Quran, shortly, although not immediately. I would read your article on 4:34 as well.

[abdalquran]

Lovely, long, sarcastic post. I'm not simply speaking of translations-I have spoken to enough Saudi Arabs. Cousin marriages, btw, aren't even due to Fatima & Ali precedent only,unfortunately, there's nowhere in the Quran where cousin marriage is baned, even repeated cousin marriages.

So if the Q doesn?t ban it, that automatically makes the Q not divinely inspired? Well that?s your perogative to choose but if you want to parade your logic around here, you may need some rhetorical bullet-proof vests.  So far, your logic can be at best called ?subjective?.

I uderstand the desperation of many Muslims to salvage their faith by insisting that all hadiths are fabricated, even by insisting that the Quran is quite incapable of proper translation, & even Saudi & Yemeni Arabs et al can't read it properly, only the most morally acceptable translations are correct, otherwise its mis translation! 

Wow, desperation to salvage faith by calling hadith fabricated! Hey , since you were a ?Quranist? for 10 months, you must have known the Quranist argumentation against hadith and even accepted it for those 10 months. Now suddenly we?re ?desperate? . So this means that you believe the hadith-believers are correct. I therefore CHALLENGE you to defend THEIR position. We can then see how much of a ?Quranist? you were.
Who said ?morally acceptable? translations are correct? I guess  you must have been the most ill-informed ?Quranist? on earth.  Of course with your POOR attitude to scholarship,  I can?t expect anything else. You think learning the Arabic language is beneath you yet you don?t mind thinking that Quranists are trying to pander to other (read: Western) moral standards. Is this a RATIONAL act on your part? Is it RATIONAL to refuse to verify information because it?s not worth your time yet venture to call other people ?desperate?? I don?t think it?s rational. I think it?s ARROGANCE based on SELF-HATE.  It probably came from your angst-driven rant about the Iranian revolution.  Rejecting Quran, burning it, putting it in the toilet or whatever you like is your perogative but if you want to pass your rejection off as ?rational?, you?ve got a looooooooong way.

I was one of these folks too! Fortunately, I was able to see that this sort of massive denial leads to nothing.

If you were a Quranist, you?d never think junking hadith is a ?desperate? act. Quranists know the overwhelming evidence against acceptance of hadith. I don?t believe you, not that it matters.
When Wakas posts his article , I?m waiting to see your masterful logic and scholarly comments. 

[Recluse]

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[Tareq]

Welcome Fawzia,

As a strong believer, I'm always saddened to hear Muslims leaving Islam, but I respect your decision. People have the choice to believe or reject. What I find very striking is that so many Iranians seem to leave Islam, especially those who live abroad. I have yet to meet a Muslim Iranian. I'm from Turkey, your neighbour

The "Islamic" revolution has succeeded in making Islam the enemy of the people. People now associete Islam with the goverment that opresses them, tells them how to dress, etc.

[Recluse]

 

The "Islamic" revolution has succeeded in making Islam the enemy of the people. People now associete Islam with the goverment that opresses them, tells them how to dress, etc.

Peace Tareq,

That is also my impression. Also, perhaps shia Islam, which has some really bizarre concepts, is part of the problem as well. But then, sunni Islam is far from perfect either..

[Tareq]

Peace Tareq,

That is also my impression. Also, perhaps shia Islam, which has some really bizarre concepts, is part of the problem as well. But then, sunni Islam is far from perfect either..

Peace recluce,
Funny thing is that both sides,sunni and shia, can see how full of shit the other side is. If only enough people would look in the mirror and apply the same scrutiny to themselves that they apply to others, what a wonderfull world it would be.

[Recluse]

Peace recluce,
Funny thing is that both sides,sunni and shia, can see how full of shit the other side is. If only enough people would look in the mirror and apply the same scrutiny to themselves that they apply to others, what a wonderfull world it would be.

[CavemanDoctor]

 

The "Islamic" revolution has succeeded in making Islam the enemy of the people. People now associete Islam with the goverment that opresses them, tells them how to dress, etc.

Exactly.  I'm an Iranian Muslim myself (though I was born and raised here in the States).

Welcome Fawzia.  To the others, please do not get angry or sarcastic when discussing issues with Fawzia or anyone else.  Responding peacefully is the best way.