Hello Folks, Fawzia here! I was a Quranist for 10 months.

[abdalquran]

Exactly.  I'm an Iranian Muslim myself (though I was born and raised here in the States).

Welcome Fawzia.  To the others, please do not get angry or sarcastic when discussing issues with Fawzia or anyone else.  Responding peacefully is the best way.

Dear Caveman,
Believe me, there's no anger involved here. I don't know if Fawzia is real or not even, let alone am I bothered about. She can believe whatever she wants, its between her and God. What really is interesting to me is the analysis of their language and thought. Fawzia claims to be a quranist yet now she considers junking hadith to be 'desperate act to salvage their faith'. She's also very against the study of Arabic, preferring to speak to Arabs to judge the Quran. Would you call such a person 'objective' (if 'objective' didn't mean 'blatantly biased', that is) ?

[Recluse]

To the others, please do not get angry or sarcastic when discussing issues with Fawzia or anyone else.  Responding peacefully is the best way.

She seems to be the one who is "angry" 

[dc2]

Fawzia, I'm sorry about the attitude from some people on this forum. When I found this forum I thought discussions would be civil. Sadly this often isn't the case. Some of us here would like to hear your point of view with resorting to snottiness (no, it's not funny, nor the way to have any kind of useful discussion). Please just ignore them. They aren't worth wasting your time with a response.

[Recluse]

Are you kidding me, read her posts and see her attitude.

[Q_student]

She's also very against the study of Arabic, preferring to speak to Arabs to judge the Quran. Would you call such a person 'objective' (if 'objective' didn't mean 'blatantly biased', that is) ?

Would you please apply the same principle to all those who cannot read even a single word of the Quran in arabic and entirely depend upon translations.They are not ready to learn arabic to study the Quran. Or this principle is only for "Fauzia" ?
Regards

[sarah_bd_gemini]

She's also very against the study of Arabic, preferring to speak to Arabs to judge the Quran. Would you call such a person 'objective' (if 'objective' didn't mean 'blatantly biased', that is) ?

A lot of us here, including myself, do not know Arabic. I do intend to learn Arabic in future, but it may be a long time from now, since I don't have the time for it with classes and all. I don't see how not knowing Arabic equates to being 'not objective'

You might accuse her of being unnecessarily harsh and racist towards South Asians in the UK, but I don't think you can say she's biased on the basis of not having studied Arabic.

[sarah_bd_gemini]

a very unpleasant incident had happened to an aunt of mine, which I felt was due to the Quran.

Was it due to the Quran, or was it due to a particular interpretation of the Quran? How do you know that it was the right interpretation?

[sarah_bd_gemini]

Dear Fawzia,

On behalf of all the Quranists, I'd like to nominate you for 'Quranist of the Year' award for your outstanding scholarship and awareness of Quranist issues and methodology on reading  the Quran. Wow, I must say, I've never encountered your kind of brilliance and objectivity before. Tell me, are you married? If not, I'd like to propose marriage to you. I'm sure all our kids will be 'Super-Quranists' thanks to your genes.

Let me quote to you some what you said so we can understand your brilliance.


Fawzia:.

YES ! That's brilliant. Because the Quran has NEVER been misappopriated or mistranslated. All the 'sciences' of understanding the Quran like 'ABROGATION' must be true. Wow.



and
No no, of course we don?t. We can and should trust ALL translators. In fact, the more they are ?against? Islam, the more we should believe them because they are incapable of lies.

and
Yes yes yes! How dare these people try to change what has been written in stone! After all ,the people who understood the Quran before us were the most brilliant human beings on earth. They actually thought Muhammad was bewitched and didn?t  know what he saying.
Yes yes. And we must blame the Quran for this too, since it?s in surah 116, ayah 320. Good point there, Fawzia.


Wow Fawzia, you?re so intelligent. May I inquire , are you a professor of logic at Harvard or Oxford? If so, I?d love to visit you some time. I?m pretty sure you?ll win this ?Quranist of the Year? award. There is only one another nominee : Geert Wilders (but I wouldn?t like to propose to him).

AbdalQuran,

I am sure that you know a lot more about the Quran than many of us here since you have given time to its study. But that does not mean that those of us who haven't have not brought up good questions. If instead of being accusatory, and somewhat offensive (what was all that about proposing and giving the Quranist award), you are more civil, it might make us more open and willing to listen to your arguments (and I am sure you have good ones) rather than being put off by your attitude. I would have PM'ed this to you, but this actually applies to others on this forum who have a similar attitude, and is also directed at them, and not to you alone.

A condescending attitude in your posts can draw attention away from the good points you make.

Peace,

Sarah

[sarah_bd_gemini]

When I found this forum I thought discussions would be civil. Sadly this often isn't the case. Some of us here would like to hear your point of view with resorting to snottiness (no, it's not funny, nor the way to have any kind of useful discussion).

agreed. There is no point to being condescending in one's attitude towards those who don't know how to read Arabic. The Quran tells the believers/submitters to be patient and understanding. Putting off people with one's attitude does not lead to any productive discussion or learning.

[sarah_bd_gemini]

I'm not simply speaking of translations-I have spoken to enough Saudi Arabs. Cousin marriages, btw, aren't even due to Fatima & Ali precedent only,unfortunately, there's nowhere in the Quran where cousin marriage is banned, even repeated cousin marriages.

I uderstand the desperation of many Muslims to salvage their faith by insisting that all hadiths are fabricated, even by insisting that the Quran is quite incapable of proper translation, & even Saudi & Yemeni Arabs et al can't read it properly, only the most morally acceptable translations are correct, otherwise its mis translation! 

I was one of these folks too! Fortunately, I was able to see that this sort of massive denial leads to nothing.

You do realise that Saudi Arabs are blindsided by tafseer and hadiths and don't read the Quran with an unbiassed perspective?
I don't see why the Quran should ban cousin marriages. There are health risks, but that doesn't justify a complete ban.
Hadiths are fabricated. One doesn't have to be a Quranist or even a Muslim to see that the 'isnad' or chain of narration, even if sound, doesn't take into account the errors or the fact that Bukhary rejected nearly all (98%) of hadiths. It's pretty obvious. Remember Chinese Whispers? Imagine that over 200years.

What exactly are we denying? Words have multiple meanings, if a word means 'beat' or 'leave' we should always take the one that makes the most sense in context and is logically consistent. Can you explain to me how beating one's wife would solve the problem of marital discord? It would only increase it. A separation would allow both parties to think things over more clearly.