Rejected Hadith's?

[Sebs]

Peace be upon you all,

My knowladge of Hadiths are very limited...

But i would like to know can one get there hands on the rejected Hadiths???

I ask this because maybe we will see things from that time from a different angle.

what do you guys think??

Thanks, Peace

Sebs

[New friend]

Peace be upon you all,

My knowladge of Hadiths are very limited...

But i would like to know can one get there hands on the rejected Hadiths???

I ask this because maybe we will see things from that time from a different angle.

what do you guys think??

Thanks, Peace

Sebs

Salaam for all,

I Know that it is very late to reply about this , But I'm new in this forum .
you must know that today, a sect exists, called "Quranites" who comment according to their whims and fancies; without seeking the explanation of the authentic Sunnah. They only accept and follow the Sunnah which suit their desires, the rest they throw behind. The Prophet salaallaahu `alayhi wa sallam is reported to have said that:
"None of you reclines on his bed, the order comes to him on an affair which I am commanded to do or not to do, he says: 'I do not know, what is found in the Book of Allah, we follow." (Tirmithi). According to another report: "What is found in The Book of Allah as 'Haram' we pronounce it 'haram' (forbidden). Surely, I am given The Qur'an and its example with it.' Yet, according to another report: "What the Messanger of Allah has forbidden, Allah has prohibited it."

It is a matter of regret that one renowned scholar has written a book on Islamic Law and its dogma, and in its preface, he says that he has written it and that he has made reference only to the Qur'an.
This true hadith gives positive evidence that the divine law of Islam - As-Shariah - is not mere Qur'an, but Qur'an and Sunnah. Therefore, whoever hold fast ton one source for reference to the exclusion of the other, he held fast to none of them, since both complement each other.
The Qur'an says "Whoever obeys the Messanger, obeys Allah". Allah says: "No, by your Lord, they do not believe until they submit to your adjudication in all disputes between them, then they do not find themselves oppressed with your decisions and they completely submit." (4:65)

Again, Allah says: "When a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messanger, it does not behove a believer, man or woman, to have choice in their matter. One who disobeys Allah and His Messanger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." (33:36)

Furthermore, Allah says: "What the Messanger teaches you, take it; and what he forbids you, avoid doing it."(59:7)

Thanks to all

[Buzzzor]

Peace New Friend,

The God willing someone more prepared to explain the flaws in your argument will happily make a post on this. If it is the truth you seek than you should sincerely research into these matters, as there are many problems with your understanding on this matter  

as for finding hadith, many people have put them on the net, so a quick search might dig some up

[New friend]

Peace New Friend,

The God willing someone more prepared to explain the flaws in your argument will happily make a post on this. If it is the truth you seek than you should sincerely research into these matters, as there are many problems with your understanding on this matter  

as for finding hadith, many people have put them on the net, so a quick search might dig some up

Salaam to all

I think that I don't have any problem in my understanding because it is clear that Allah in his book (Noble Quraan) call to follow the prophet mohameed which is represented in his Hadith

Thanks

[TheNabi]

Salaam New Friend,

I believe that following the rasool does not mean following another jurisprudence. The man who is the rasool has jurisdictions which are outlined in alquran as being according to Allah's judgement. The envoy is almost like a representative of Allah and we follow them the same way, by adhereing to the message, since the rasool is essentially the spokeperson of God [53:2-4].

Ayat 59:7-8 is about the spoils of war, but if you want it to be the way you have it, then read it along with ayat 5:67. Obeying the rasool is obeying Allah because it is essentially Allah's will that is being obeyed since it is the will of Allah being revealed.

Alquran clearly identifies the law [13:37] but I ask you is the ahadeeth you follow essentially in accord with alquran and is alquran clear?

Joe

[hafeez kazi]

Peace New friend

Aye! by thy Lord, they shall not believe until they have made THEE JUDGE of that which is DISPUTED  BETWEEN THEM, and then find no vexation in their hearts with that which thou hast DECREED, and they submit with full submission. 4:65

The subject is DISPUTE that is between them and the JUDGEMENT of the prophet. This verse is NOT referring to any HADITH.

THE JUDGEMENT / DECREE of the prophet on the DISPUTE should be ACCEPTED with full SUBMISSION by the believers, and unless they do they are not believers.

Do not quote out of context.

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth confirming the scripture that came before it and guarding it in safety; so JUDGE BETWEEN THEM them by what Allah hath REVEALED and follow not their vain desires diverging from the truth that hath come to thee.  To each among you have We prescribed a Law and an Open Way.  If Allah had so willed He would have made you a single people but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues.  The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute. 5:48

Now the prophet is no more with us therefore all judgements will be referred to the Quran only.

All JUDGEMENTS are based on QURAN and NOT on any other BOOK or SUNNAH.


It is not fitting for a Believer man or woman when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Apostle to have any option about their decision: if anyone disobeys Allah and His Apostle he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path. 33:56

There remains no option except to accept a DECISION when a MATTER has been decided by ALLAH and His apostle (BOTH). Anyone who disobeys ALLAH and Prophet (BOTH) is on the wrong path.

There is no HADITH involved here but a DECISION form Allah and His apostle (BOTH)


Your Quote
Furthermore, Allah says: "What the Messanger (KHUDHO) TEACHES you, take it; and what he forbids you, avoid doing it."(59:7)
 
We were clearly taught by God that we have to listen to all views and follow the best, as in the following verse, and your translation of the verse above, has evidence of CORRUPTION.
   
"Those who listen to the word and FOLLOW THE BEST thereof. Such are those whom Allah GUIDED, and such are men of UNDERSTANDING." (39:18)

Why should one corrupt the verses of the Qur'an? What does one hope to achieve?  The verse was adulterated in order to legitimise the much controversial Hadith! This is, of course, not the only reason why your translation of the verse had kept me thinking. By revealing only those words to the public, you are premeditatedly concealing the majority of the words and of the real
message of the verse. Here is the full verse:  

What Allah gave as booty (Fai') to His Messenger from the people of the townships, - it is for Allah, His Messenger, the kindred, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer, in order that it may not become a fortune used by the rich among you. And whatsoever the Messenger  (KHUDHO) GIVES YOU you, TAKE IT and whatsoever he FORBIDS YOU, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment. 59:7

And, allow me to continue to the next verse to confirm the context, that is, the division of the SPOILS OF WARS.
 
(Some part is due) to the indigent Muhajirs those who were expelled from their homes and their property while seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good pleasure and aiding Allah and His Apostle: such are indeed the sincere ones 59:8

One could clearly see that what the Prophet was giving and what he was forbidding was NOT HADITH as you claimed. How could one go wrong with the non-allegorical verse like this? Why
can't one see the truth?  

It is the practice of the Hadither's to quote half the verse

The verse speaks of the SPOILS OF WAR and not HADITH.

You have corrupted the meaning of KHUDHO (TAKE) as TEACH

I ask you, why you changed the meaning of the word KHUDHO (TAKE) as TEACH

DON'T YOU FEAR ALLAH?

To justify the validity of the HADITH you changed the meaning of the WORD KHUDHO and quoted part of the verse. Why go to such extremes. Has Allah given you the permission?

OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER". What does it mean?

To obey the messenger means (to you) to believe in the Hadith. What do you really mean? Let us put the situation during Prophet Muhammad's days. Do you mean to say that when he frowned and turned away from the blind man, everybody frowned and turned away from 'Abd Allah Ibn Umm Maktum? Or, when he lost a tooth, everybody started pulling his or her tooth? Or, when he moved his right leg, everybody followed him? Or, when he got married for the fourth time, everybody started hunting for the fourth time? Or, when he ate the ribs of lamb, everybody rushed for the lamb's ribs?

From the Hadiths, we know that the Prophet was constantly watched - even what he did in the toilet and in the bedroom were witnessed, witnessed by pious and reliable people.  

Thanks

[Olusanya]

Salaam for all,

It is a matter of regret that one renowned scholar has written a book on Islamic Law and its dogma, and in its preface, he says that he has written it and that he has made reference only to the Qur'an.
This true hadith gives positive evidence that the divine law of Islam - As-Shariah - is not mere Qur'an, but Qur'an and Sunnah. Therefore, whoever hold fast ton one source for reference to the exclusion of the other, he held fast to none of them, since both complement each other.
The Qur'an says "Whoever obeys the Messanger, obeys Allah". Allah says: "No, by your Lord, they do not believe until they submit to your adjudication in all disputes between them, then they do not find themselves oppressed with your decisions and they completely submit." (4:65)

Again, Allah says: "When a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messanger, it does not behove a believer, man or woman, to have choice in their matter. One who disobeys Allah and His Messanger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." (33:36)

Furthermore, Allah says: "What the Messanger teaches you, take it; and what he forbids you, avoid doing it."(59:7)

Thanks to all

As'Salaam Alaykun New Friend,

With all due respects to your assessment, may I introduce some points for you to reflect upon.

As to the point you make with Surah  4:65, to turn to the Qur'an as our only source of guidance, is in fact, to follow the messenger because Muhammad was instructed to judge between the people by using the Qur'an.

Al-Qur'an, An-Nisa [Women] 4:105

Inn[a] anzaln[a] ilayka alkit[a]ba bi(a)l[h]aqqi lita[h]kuma bayna a(l)nn[a]si bim[a] ar[a]ka All[a]hu wal[a] takun lilkh[a]-ineena khaeem[a](n)
We have sent down to thee the Book in truth, that thou mightest judge between men, as guided by Allah: so be not (used) as an advocate by those who betray their trust;

There are other ayat that emphasize this same point, but it is not necessary to list them all. If you are a truly discerning individual you can verify this for yourself. I am simply striving to give you some food for thought. The mistake in thinking, is that the example of Muhammad that we are to follow is found in Hadith, when in fact, it is found within the Qur'an. To insist that Hadith are necessary is to deny Allah's own words;

Al-Maeda [The Table, The Table Spread] 5:48, 49[/color]

Waanzaln[a] ilayka alkit[a]ba bi(a)l[h]aqqi muaddiqan lim[a] bayna yadayhi mina alkit[a]bi wamuhayminan AAalayhi fa(o)[h]kum baynahum bim[a] anzala All[a]hu wal[a] tattabiAA ahw[a]ahum AAamm[a] j[a]aka mina al[h]aqqi likullin jaAAaln[a] minkum shirAAatan waminh[a]jan walaw sh[a]a All[a]hu lajaAAalakum ommatan w[ah]idatan wal[a]kin liyabluwakum feem[a] [a]t[a]kum fa(i)stabiqoo alkhayr[a]ti il[a] All[a]hi marjiAAukum jameeAAan fayunabbi-okum bim[a] kuntum feehi takhtalifoon(a)
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Waani o[h]kum baynahum bim[a] anzala All[a]hu wal[a] tattabiAA ahw[a]ahum wa(i)[hth]arhum an yaftinooka AAan baAA[d]i m[a] anzala All[a]hu ilayka fa-in tawallaw fa(i)AAlam annam[a] yureedu All[a]hu an yueebahum bibaAA[d]i [th]unoobihim wa-inna katheeran mina a(l)nn[a]si laf[a]siqoon(a)
And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.

Now if we are to only use the Message of alkit[a]ba, let us look to see what it says about Hadith;

Al-Anaam [Cattle, Livestock] 6:21, 22

Waman a{th}lamu mimmani iftar[a] AAal[a] All[a]hi ka[th]iban aw ka[thth]aba bi-[a]y[a]tihi innahu l[a] yufli[h]u a(l){thth}[a]limoon(a)
Who doth more wrong than he who inventeth a lie against Allah or rejecteth His signs?  But verily the wrong-doers never shall prosper.

Wayawma na[h]shuruhum jameeAAan thumma naqoolu lilla[th]eena ashrakoo ayna shurak[a]okumu alla[th]eena kuntum tazAAumoon(a)
One day shall We gather them all together: We shall say to those who ascribed partners (to Us): "Where are the partners whom ye (invented and) talked about?"[/b]

Al-Anaam [Cattle, Livestock] 6:112-114

Waka[tha]lika jaAAaln[a] likulli nabiyyin AAaduwwan shay[at]eena al-insi wa(a)ljinni yoo[h]ee baAA[d]uhum il[a] baAA[d]in zukhrufa alqawli ghurooran walaw sh[a]a rabbuka m[a] faAAaloohu fa[th]arhum wam[a] yaftaroon(a)
Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone.

Walitagh[a] ilayhi af-idatu alla[th]eena l[a] yu/minoona bi(a)l-[a]khirati waliyar[d]awhu waliyaqtarifoo m[a] hum muqtarifoon(a)
To such (deceit) let the hearts of those incline, who have no faith in the hereafter: let them delight in it, and let them earn from it what they may.

Afaghayra All[a]hi abtaghee [h]akaman wahuwa alla[th]ee anzala ilaykumu alkit[a]ba mufa[ss]alan wa(a)lla[th]eena [a]tayn[a]humu alkit[a]ba yaAAlamoona annahu munazzalun min rabbika bi(a)l[h]aqqi fal[a] takoonanna mina almumtareen(a)
Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

These verses only alludes to the Hadith, as they imply turning to a source other than Allah for guidance and the result of such actions, but we have ayats that are more specific;

Al-Qur'an, Al-Araf [The Heights] 7:185

Awalam yan{th}uroo fee malakooti a(l)ssam[a]w[a]ti wa(a)l-ar[d]i wam[a] khalaqa All[a]hu min shay-in waan AAas[a] an yakoona qadi iqtaraba ajaluhum fabi-ayyi [h]adeethin baAAdahu yu/minoon(a)
Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message[hadith] after this will they then believe?

Luqman [Luqman] 31;6, 7

Wamina a(l)nn[a]si man yashtaree lahwa al[h]adeethi liyu[d]illa AAan sabeeli All[a]hi bighayri AAilmin wayattakhi[th]ah[a] huzuwan ol[a]-ika lahum AAa[tha]bun muheen(un)
But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.

Wa-i[tha] tutl[a] AAalayhi [a]y[a]tun[a] wall[a] mustakbiran kaan lam yasmaAAh[a] kaanna fee o[th]unayhi waqran fabashshirhu biAAa[tha]bin aleem(in)
When Our Signs are rehearsed to such a one, he turns away in arrogance, as if he heard them not, as if there were deafness in both his ears: announce to him a grievous Penalty.

Al-Jathiya [Crouching] 45:6

Tilka [a]y[a]tu All[a]hi natlooh[a] AAalayka bi(a)l[h]aqqi fabi-ayyi [h]adeethin baAAda All[a]hi wa[a]y[a]tihi yu/minoon(a)
Such are the Signs of Allah, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what exposition will they believe after (rejecting) Allah and His Signs?

Al-Mursalat [The Emissaries, Winds Sent Forth] 77:50

Fabi-ayyi [h]adeethin baAAdahu yu/minoon(a)
Then what Message, after that, will they believe in?

It is my understanding that, due to our different degrees of perception, we may dabate back and forth endlessly about the entire contents of the Qur'an, but at some point we must put aside personal belief and desires and trust what The Book tells us in Allah's own words.
I present these ayats to you for your reflection, and leave you with one final verse.

Az-Zumar [The Troops, Throngs] 39:23

All[a]hu nazzala a[h]sana al[h]adeethi kit[a]ban mutash[a]bihan math[a]niya taqshaAAirru minhu juloodu alla[th]eena yakhshawna rabbahum thumma taleenu julooduhum waquloobuhum il[a] [th]ikri All[a]hi [tha]lika hud[a] All[a]hi yahdee bihi man yash[a]o waman yu[d]lili All[a]hu fam[a] lahu min h[a]d(in)
Allah has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah: He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide.

Ma'Salaam,
Olu'sanya

[zenje]

But I'm new in this forum .
you must know that today, a sect exists, called "Quranites" who comment according to their whims and fancies; without seeking the explanation of the authentic Sunnah.

Sounds a bit too familiar... hmmm  :roll:

[New friend]

Al Salam Alycum

I want to explain that I believe we have One great Holy book "Quraan " which is perfect and the First reference in our rules in Islam , But this does not mean that  we should reject the sunnah or Hadith of our great prophet (PUH) . As real Muslims we can recognize the truth Hadith by logic it is in the same direction of Quraan .

How we accepted  the Truth of Quraan which was  transmitted  by Mohammed (SAAS) ? How we trust that he transmitted the right verses of Quraan

[TheNabi]

Salaam New Friend,

How we accepted the Truth of Quraan which was transmitted by Mohammed (SAAS) ? How we trust that he transmitted the right verses of Quraan

See ayaat 4:82 and 41:53 and with these your questions may be answered.

Joe