HELP NEEDED! Crisis of Faith: The Truthfullness of The Qur'an...

[Noon waalqalami]

So according to you, the group of 19 Angels /guardians of hell are strengthening your faith  and convincing the Jews and Christians that tQoran  is divine?

peace gl, again basic reading not today's infatuation with multiple hunting

I arrived at certainty due to single "meem" in word ما ma/what below

4:12 ولكم and for you نصف half ما ma/what ترك left ازوجكم spouses yours ...
فلكم so for you الربع the fourth مما mimma/from what تركن left they (f/p)

لهن and for them الربع the fourth مما mimma/from what تركتم left you
... فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما mimma/from what تركتم left you


likewise "in context" was obviously applicable back then
74:30 clearly refers to group of nineteen (m) angels 66:6

74:31
ولىقول and to sayeth الذىن the ones فى in قلوبهم hearts theirs مرض illness والكفرون and the rejecting
"ماذا what hath اراد intends الله the God بهذا in this مثلا similitude of?"
كذلك like such ىضل misguided الله the God من whom ىشا willed of وىهدى and guided من whom ىشا willed of

likewise with mosquito

2:26
واما and as for الذىن the ones كفروا reject they of فىقولون so sayeth being
"ماذا what hath اراد intends الله the God بهذا in this مثلا similitude of?"
ىضل misguided به with it كثىرا many of وىهدى and guided به with it كثىرا many of

if you want to remove verses, not learn to read, flip digits hunt multiples up to you

peace!

[shukri]

Bro Noon,

This thread is not meant to discuss the details of Code 19.
The discussion on it has been done on various threads of this forum.
We are here to give the answer or give the possible solution to our friend Bro "LiberalGamer" on his crisis of faith regarding the Quran.
Please give your focus to this issue and pay attention to his arguments.
I know you are a very knowledgeable person and have the expertise to answer all the points raised by Bro "LiberalGame". Don't you!

[good logic]

Brother Noon.
whenever you see numbers, you are the one flipping numbers and finding useless multiples . You are drawn to it like a magnet.
May be it is your task in this life  Keep going too, I am not objecting.
Remove or ignore verses? what difference?.Why do you ignore some verses? like 46:10 ,54:1-2...etc:
46:8
When they say, "He fabricated this," say, "If I fabricated this, then you cannot protect me from God. He is fully aware of everything you scheme. He suffices as a witness between me and you. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful."
أَم يَقولونَ افتَرىٰهُ قُل إِنِ افتَرَيتُهُ فَلا تَملِكونَ لى مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيـًٔا هُوَ أَعلَمُ بِما تُفيضونَ فيهِ كَفىٰ بِهِ شَهيدًا بَينى وَبَينَكُم وَهُوَ الغَفورُ الرَّحيمُ
46:9
Say, "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner."
قُل ما كُنتُ بِدعًا مِنَ الرُّسُلِ وَما أَدرى ما يُفعَلُ بى وَلا بِكُم إِن أَتَّبِعُ إِلّا ما يوحىٰ إِلَىَّ وَما أَنا۠ إِلّا نَذيرٌ مُبينٌ
46:10
Say, "What if it is from God and you disbelieved in it? A witness from the Children of Israel has borne witness to a similar phenomenon,* and he has believed, while you have turned arrogant. Surely, God does not guide the wicked people."
قُل أَرَءَيتُم إِن كانَ مِن عِندِ اللَّهِ وَكَفَرتُم بِهِ وَشَهِدَ شاهِدٌ مِن بَنى إِسرٰءيلَ عَلىٰ مِثلِهِ فَـٔامَنَ وَاستَكبَرتُم إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يَهدِى القَومَ الظّٰلِمينَ

Rabbi Judah the Pious.
* This witness is Rabbi Judah the Pious (11th Century A.D.), who discovered the same 19-based mathematical code in intact fragments of the scripture(Torah)
http://whoisourcreator.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/rabbi-judah-pious-witnesses.html
46:11
Those who disbelieved said about those who believed, "If it were anything good, they would not have accepted it before us." Because they were not guided to it, they said, "This is an old fabrication!"
وَقالَ الَّذينَ كَفَروا لِلَّذينَ ءامَنوا لَو كانَ خَيرًا ما سَبَقونا إِلَيهِ وَإِذ لَم يَهتَدوا بِهِ فَسَيَقولونَ هٰذا إِفكٌ قَديمٌ

Shukri you are right me and Noon should stick to the topic.
Sorry about the off-topic.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Noon waalqalami]

Bro Noon,

This thread is not meant to discuss the details of Code 19.
The discussion on it has been done on various threads of this forum.
We are here to give the answer or give the possible solution to our friend Bro "LiberalGamer" on his crisis of faith regarding the Quran.
Please give your focus to this issue and pay attention to his arguments.
I know you are a very knowledgeable person and have the expertise to answer all the points raised by Bro "LiberalGame". Don't you!

peace, I've already responded in my first post he has too many topics

likewise, teaching you all how to read and you guys who brought it up

عَلَيْهَا تِسْعَةَ عَشَرَ بليداً over her/it (f) group of nineteen morons (masculine)

116 1 930 2 570 3 47 4 = 19 x 6115422405446
121 1 934 2 573 3 52 4 = 19 x 6378601354396

1 12345 2 6789 3 101112 4 1314151617 = 19 x 19 x 19 x 1637924885451248176310563

1 5 12345 2 9 6789 3 12 101112 4 17 1314151617 = 19 x 795971208836480053217061648113243

1 70301051 2 4006070400 3 70300200 4 2301041 = 19 x 89632132231610896844054211581173739

[shukri]

peace, I've already responded in my first post he has too many topics

Bro Noon,
You just made a comment on a minor thing, not enough!

Minor Things
-fasting in the north pole,
there are places on the earth where the sun never sets, God designed the night and the day, how is this never brought up, especially when you're supposed to fast from sunrise to sunset, but since there are places where the sun never sets it's literally impossible, like literally, and yet to my knowledge, my understanding of The Qur'an never brings it up...

I want to hear your answer on the major issue raised by "LiberalGame"

"Let's assume you are alive when The Prophet pbuh is alive too and he is preaching The Qur'an.Now, within this context, you have two options:
A) Believe that The Prophet pbuh is sent from God
B) Believe that The Prophet pbuh is speaking from his own accord

Now, let's go back to the present day context, you can still
A) Believe that The Qur'an is from God
B) Believe that The Qur'an is from a Human in the 7th century

Now the problem that I have is that, if you assume A, it does make sense, but there are a lot of things which either 1) seem really unfortunate, or 2) don't make sense, for example:
-Eternal Punishment? God is the Doer of what He Wills and, I it is possible, but it just, it sounds so unfortunate, like no second chances, it's so sad.
-Killing / Waging War, honestly even if it was self defense it just seems too glorified to be coming from God, the disbelievers seem absolutely dehumanized, but even beyond that killing seems to be presented as an actual good thing rather then a deplorable but unfortunately necessary thing, "Striving in The Way Of God" and all that...
-Even The Day seems a bit arbitrary at times, for example there are different accounts given on what will occur on that day, but the most unfortunate thing from my view is the fact that there doesn't even seem to be anything certain, since the implication is everyone will account for their deeds they did in this life, but then it is mentioned multiple times that the disbelievers deeds will be nullified, so it's as if they didn't do anything good, ergo I don't understand."

In short, please give your reasoning why you believe that the Quran is from God NOT from Muhammad.
In Reply #21, I mentioned Code-19 as a proof to be considered by "LiberalGame".
Now please give your proof to "LiberalGame" why you have a certainty that al Quran came from God.
I want to see your reasoning if possible.
It must be an incontrovertible proof I suppose!

[Noon waalqalami]

Bro Noon,
You just made a comment on a minor thing, not enough!

I want to hear your answer on the major issue raised by "LiberalGame"

In short, please give your reasoning why you believe that the Quran is from God NOT from Muhammad.
In Reply #21, I mentioned Code-19 as a proof to be considered by "LiberalGame".
Now please give your proof to "LiberalGame" why you have a certainty that al Quran came from God.
I want to see your reasoning if possible.
It must be an incontrovertible proof I suppose!

peace, already gave a reason if you bothered to read and study the subject.

I arrived at certainty due to single "meem" in word ما ma/what below

4:12 ولكم and for you نصف half ما ma/what ترك left ازوجكم spouses yours ...

instead of posting multiples consult your messenger's horrid translation to answer the questions or the meaning of kalala and how to allocate inheritance to husband, parents, two sisters?

nineteen infatuation is for those who cannot read and lack basic math skills.

you're all looking for magic whereas faith comes by reading comprehension!

[shukri]

peace, already gave a reason if you bothered to read and study the subject.

If you have given a reason, thank you!
I hope Bro "LiberalGame" has studied your reason and accepts it as absolute proof that the Quran is from God.
AND his "Crisis of Faith" will end forever.

Note: Once more ...
The knowledge given to us is minute (17:85) to fully capture the Quran's wisdom.
What we need most is a proof  that the Quran is not Muhammad-made book.
BUT the divine words from our Lord instead!

Ends.
So long!

[jkhan]

@ liberalgame

below is your concern...

Honestly I did ramble quite a bit, if you wish to respond, and I would appreciate that, here would be the main thing I'd like your view on, my main conundrum so far in a nutshell, I guess:
'If you assume that The Qur'an is inspired by God, a lot of things make sense... but there are also a lot of things don't line up, like killing / war, worldy life, etc. [I went over the things that didn't make sense to me in the original post]
But if you assume that The Qur'an is written by a human living in the 7th century, a lot more things make sense, and the things that previously made sense seem to make more sense through this lens. Hell, Killing / War, Worldy Life, Punishments, Threats, that's my main conundrum, the fact that, if you believe it is from God, 60% of things make sense, 40% of things don't make sense, and if you assume it's from a human from the 7th century, it seems like 95% of the things make sense, 5% of the things maybe don't make sense.

So my question in a nutshell is, are there any verses / themes / principles from The Qur'an that, should it be viewed from a human 7th century lens, just wouldn't make sense at all for it being there, but should it be viewed from the 'Inspired by God' lens, it makes a lot more sense?'


-------- ------

You believe that God created the Earth and Heavens coz you believe in Him as God..
So.. let's approach to the world without human being... suppose you are the only human being on this Earth and you are looking at entire animal world... What would you decide? O! the creator is so unfair.. most of the animals do prey on others and the innocent animals do die at the hands of powerful animals... They fight each other for territory, for power, for prey, for many other things.. Would you ask like this, Can't God create the animal world in a way which is better than this?.. You would ask to yourself what is the purpose of these animals life / worldly life?
So, you are only capable of thinking in human capacity.. aren't you? You can't think beyond human capacity...
So dear.. avoid skepticism..
We may dislike a thing that is good for us.. we may like a thing that is not good for us...
You are strangled in one of these..
Thank you