Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation

[Noon waalqalami]

You have made a statement- Qatal- does not mean kill/fight?  Enlighten us with your better translation of {2:56}, so we can stand corrected?

Peace good logic -- use context and perhaps not "slay" the self too much over meanings.

17:30 ان surely ربك lord your ىبسط extends الرزق the provision لمن to whom ىشاء wills وىقدر and decrees انه surely he كان be بعباده in servants his خبىرا aware of بصىرا seer of

17:31 ولا and not تقتلوا thou slay ye of اولادكم offspring yours خشىه fear املاق pauperism (don't be stingy) نحن we are نرزقهم we provide them واىاكم and for you ان if قتلهم slay them كان be خطىا fault of كبىرا immense of

2:54 واذ and when قال said موسى Musa/Moses لقومه to folk his ىا O قوم folk انكم that surely you ظلمتم have wronged you انفسكم souls yours/yourselves باتخاذكم in taking you العجل the calf فتوبوا so turn/repent ye of الى to بارىكم creator yours فاقتلوا so slays ye of انفسكم souls yours/yourselves (i.e. idolatry/desire for extravagance) ذلكم such yours خىر best لكم for you عند near بارىكم creator yours فتاب so turned علىكم on you انه surely he هو he التواب the frequent الرحىم the merciful

2:55 واذ and when قلتم speaking you ىا O موسى Musa/Moses لن never نومن we believe لك to you حتى until نرى we see الله the god جهره openly فاخذتكم so seized you الصاعقه the thunderbolt وانتم and are you تنظرون watching

2:56 ثم furthermore بعثناكم we raised you من from بعد after موتكم death yours (refers to 2:54) لعلكم that may you تشكرون thanks giving

[DrGm]

peace,

2.54   - Musa said to his people, ?You have done grave injustice to you by taking to the calf; henceforth seek forgiveness from your Creator and ready yourself for the sacrifice^@. Only this shall bring you good omen from your Creator. Allah has forgiven you; verily, He accepts repentance and He is Merciful.

   comment @. The people of Musa were of the fear that slaying their calf, their deity, would cast bad omen upon them; and Musa said to them, ?Then get ready for your sacrifice by sacrificing the calf.(2.67 ? 71)? And they did sacrifice the calf half-heartedly, after much argument over it with Musa. Thus Allah forgave the descendants of Israel and continued favouring them, mercifully. Nothing evil befell them on account of their calf-sacrifice.

2.55   - And when you said, ?O Musa, until we see Allah before our very eyes, we shall not believe you^@,? a severe thunder-rupture ripped you while you were seeing.

   comment @. Musa could not answer them but to turn to Allah Himself and said, ?O my God, I must see you with my eyes; show You to me (7.143).? Then when Allah made it clear to Him it is impossible, Musa sought forgiveness from Allah and make him a Muslim, who shall believe in the Unseen. But when he came to his people from his retreat with Allah, and saw them again worshiping the calf, this time making the calf into an idol that which they sacrificed earlier. And an argument ensued between Musa and the idolaters; until finally the thunder-rent made the idolaters drop dead.

quran translation and commentary by Dr Fazlur Rahman

peace

[Noon waalqalami]

... and ready yourself for the sacrifice^@.
quran translation and commentary by Dr Fazlur Rahman

Peace, which word exactly is "ready" and likewise "yourself for the sacrifice"?

9:5  ... فاقتلوا so slays ye of المشركىن the idolaters حىث anyplace وجدتموهم find ye them
2:54 ... فاقتلوا so slays ye of انفسكم yourselves

[mmkhan]

Peace,

That single aayat itself explains a lot.

2:54
وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَىٰ لِقَوْمِهِ يَا قَوْمِ إِنَّكُمْ ظَلَمْتُمْ أَنفُسَكُم بِاتِّخَاذِكُمُ الْعِجْلَ فَتُوبُوا إِلَىٰ بَارِئِكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ ذَٰلِكُمْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ عِندَ بَارِئِكُمْ فَتَابَ عَلَيْكُمْ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ
And when Musa said to his people, "O my people, indeed you have wronged yourselves by your taking of the calf. So repent to your Creator so kill yourselves. That is best for you in the sight of your Creator." Then He accepted your repentance; indeed, He is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

This clearly shows that:
You have wronged yourselves by your taking of the calf. [To come back and correct yourself, you need two things to do]
So, repent to your Creator.
So, kill yourself.

Repent to your Creator DOES NOT MEAN killing yourself. To correct, why there are to things, killing oneself will not correct him. When repent to your Creator is already said, then what is the use of saying kill yourself? These are just steps [sequence], like repent and humble yourself(?). The usage of this letter FA can also be seen in 19:26.

19:26
فَكُلِي وَاشْرَبِي وَقَرِّي عَيْنًا ۖ فَإِمَّا تَرَيِنَّ مِنَ الْبَشَرِ أَحَدًا فَقُولِي إِنِّي نَذَرْتُ لِلرَّحْمَـٰنِ صَوْمًا فَلَنْ أُكَلِّمَ الْيَوْمَ إِنسِيًّا
So eat and drink and be contented. So if you see from among men anyone, so say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to mankind.' "

This aayat shows that the usage of FA is show steps in sequence. So, in 2:54 if Allah wants them to suicide what is the purpose of asking them to repent to the Creator first? This surely does not refers to killing oneself, inshaAllah.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[Mazhar]

Peace,

That single aayat itself explains a lot.

2:54
وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَىٰ لِقَوْمِهِ يَا قَوْمِ إِنَّكُمْ ظَلَمْتُمْ أَنفُسَكُم بِاتِّخَاذِكُمُ الْعِجْلَ فَتُوبُوا إِلَىٰ بَارِئِكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ ذَٰلِكُمْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ عِندَ بَارِئِكُمْ فَتَابَ عَلَيْكُمْ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ

فَتَابَ عَلَيْكُمْ This sentence very strongly confirms your point. Fa signifies that they did what they were asked to do whereby Allah the Exalted did this. This can't be said to those who have already killed theirselves.

[Neptin]

"Peace",  reel, the translation is wrong. Check out these;

Edip-Layth-Martha (Quran: A Reformist Translation)
2:54
Moses said to his people, "O my people, you have wronged yourselves by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and face yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Compassionate."18

Muhammad Asad
2:54
and when Moses said unto his people: "O my people! Verily, you have sinned against yourselves by worshipping the calf; turn, then. in repentance to your Maker and mortify yourselves;39 this will be the best for you in your Maker's sight". And thereupon He accepted your repentance: for, behold, He alone is the Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace.

The length at which enemies of the Quran go to distort the Quran is alarming. There was no penalty specified for those who worshipped the calf . "Kill yourselves" cant be followed by "repent" if it is to be taking literally as in "death".

[hawk99]

This aayat shows that the usage of FA is show steps in sequence. So, in 2:54 if Allah wants them to suicide what is the purpose of asking them to repent to the Creator first? This surely does not refers to killing oneself, inshaAllah.

Agreed

The context is left with the meaning:   to annihilate, tame, remove, learn to control, change something in or about
yourselves.

Peace,

So according to translators the way to repentance (2/54) is to kill yourself?    

Few weeks ago, some members saw my debate with Mr Israfeel about hadiths. He tried to prove that Quran
preaches suicide by using verse 2:54.

Peace reel,

Those sectarians are ignorant folk who refuse to obey Allah and cling to sources other than Allah.

How on earth could they possibly miss this:

6/159  Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, are not with them in anything.
Their affair is only to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

God bless you    

[Layth]

Not sure why there is a lot of mental acrobatics to twist this verse into something it is not...

The command is clear: Bani Israel were told to kill themselves for their action. They refused, so God killed them and resurrected them to prove His point...Simple and clear.

[mmkhan]

Not sure why there is a lot of mental acrobatics to twist this verse into something it is not...

The command is clear: Bani Israel were told to kill themselves for their action. They refused, so God killed them and resurrected them to prove His point...Simple and clear.

Peace brother,

Few questions for you, please answer:

1- So you mean all mushriks should kill themselves or this command was just for Bani Isreal?
2- If it is not for all mushriks, then what could be the possible reason to mentioning this in alQuraan for us?
3- And why not Allah killing today's mushriks for their actions? They didn't know to kill themselves?
4- And if they knew and then refuse then Allah will kill them just to prove His point?


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[huruf]

Not sure why there is a lot of mental acrobatics to twist this verse into something it is not...

The command is clear: Bani Israel were told to kill themselves for their action. They refused, so God killed them and resurrected them to prove His point...Simple and clear.

I completely disagree. It is not clear at all that it says what you say it says. Quite the opposite, I think it is a clear hint that we must go with care when meeting the term q-t-l. For me the context, the rest of the speech and the whole content of Qur'an make the meaning kill themselves impossible and very contradictory with the content of the Qur'an. Far from clear.

Salaam