Peace to Those Who Follow the Guidance
I'd like to answer the Heretics on this forum and the points of this article below
My writing is in blue insha'Allah
Quote1. Quran Only Muslims?
The use of such name, or the name ?Quraniyoon? or any other derivative of a name other than ?Muslim? is a malicious attempt to label the followers of God and His messenger with a name other than what they have given themselves and other than what God has authorized. The name of the believers in God is and has always been ?Muslims? since the days of our father Abraham. Those who follow other than the path of the messenger will never be able to hold that name and must, by design, name themselves with the name of their sects ?Sunni, Shia, etc.?
?And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you ?those who have submitted? (Muslimeen) from before and in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So hold the contact prayer and contribute towards purification and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.? (Qur?an 22:78)
You are Called Quraniyoon because you reject the islamic traditions, that have passed down generation after generation.
2. How do you know how to pray using the Quran alone?
The answer to this oft repeated question is two-fold:
a) The 5 daily Salat that the sects are searching for with their rakkas and steps were never authorized by God and have been taken from their self-invented books of Hadith. Therefore, to search the Qur?an for these details is like searching the Injeel that Jesus delivered for the teachings of the trinity.
This is wrong, Allah tells us that in the prayer You Stand, you prostrate, and you bow. Now what is the Order? Do you start praying by bowing? Than you Stand? Than You Prostrate? Can I do it anyway I want? You'd probably say if you were following someone you follow them. Now everything the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did would be under the watchful eye of Allah. If the Companions were following him in prayer they would surely follow the way he did prayer. Now Allah says about the noble messenger peace be upon him that
[068:004]Indeed, you certainly bear the highest moral character.
The word for Character used was Khuluq. Your Khuloq is the way you act, the way you are. Now Allah was commenting on the way he carries on his life, yes one of the arguments for the sunnah is the use of the word "obey Allah and Obey his Messenger" but there is also these verses
[3:31] Sahih International
Say, [O Muhammad], "If you should love Allah, then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
How are we suppose to Follow the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him if we do not even know how he lived? Or what he ordered? Real life is not how you lot paint it. There are specific circumstances that can't just be done with however you like. So if he has the best moral character, and it was told to follow him so Allah can love him, wouldn't the most logical thing be to dictate his life and how he lived and the closest ones around him?
b) The Qur?an has immense details on the Salat that God has taught His prophets throughout the ages, from its timing (see 11:114, 17:78, 2:238, 24:58), to its preparation (see 5:6), to its style (see 2:239), to its tone (see 17:110), to its length of units/rakkas (see 4:102), to its ending (see 17:111).
Let us look at the verses
Without going into this too much, are you telling me that the Muslim Ummah has been misguided for over 1400 years!?
Now 4:102 does not really specify the prayer.
Now there are more questions regarding Prayer. Allah talks about the call for prayer, how do we make that call to prayer?
3. How do you know how much Zakaah to pay using the Quran alone?
Giving charity is defined in the Qur?an as ?the excess? (see 2:219). The 2.5% is a fabrication of the sects from the books of Hadith which are designed to rival God?s teachings. Having said that, it must be pointed out that there is a ?tax? defined in the Qur?an being ?one fifth? (see 8:41) which is to be distributed to a set list.
The hadith are not books, but are narrations that have been preserved in books. Now letsbe realistic, in a real Islamic Government (which Allah has promised the sahaba in plenty of verses) You can't just suspect people to give how ever much someone wants.
4. Hadn't the Quran been reached to us from the same sources we received our authentic hadith?
No it hasn?t. The original Qur?an was written by the prophet (see 25:5) and arranged into its current arrangement before his death (see 16:101-102). Therefore, what was passed on was simply a copy of the original without any amendment, opinion, or interference.
Now this is the Question i wanted to tackle. The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is said to be illiterate even in the Quran. Now the Quran at the time of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was all memorized. Lets look at those verses you have put down
[16:101] Sahih International
And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down - they say, "You, [O Muhammad], are but an inventor [of lies]." But most of them do not know.
[16:102] Sahih International
Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."
what does this have to do with the arrangement of the Quran? and commanded about its arrangement? AS well the earliest Mushaf we have is 100 years after the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, around the time of Imam Ibn Hanbal and Imam Malik. Who narrated to us hadith. Would it be logical to say that the Quran was made 100 years after the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him? NEVER THAT! Now look at this plain and simple the way we have Quran is its narration, which is much more powerful than its written. The same scholars RIGHT NOW who have given us hadith have chains all the way to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Like this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iO44Tddn-0
5. Why would Allah preserve the Quran and not preserve the meaning?
The meaning is preserved for those who are sincere (see 56:79), while for the rejecters it can never be clear (see 41:44).
The verse you have quoted out of context
[56:79] Sahih International
None touch it except the purified.
The word for "sincere" is actually purified. And the word purified in arabic is Mutaharoon. Which human being is completely pure? At All times? Its not talking about the human being but the angel like in these verses.
[It is recorded] in honored sheets, (13) Exalted and purified, (14) [Carried] by the hands of messenger-angels, (15) Noble and dutiful.
look at the arabic explanation why
Ayah 15:
بِأَيْدِي سَفَرَةٍ
[Carried] by the hands of messenger-angels,
bi aydee safarah
in the hands/disposal of safarah/scribes.
Safarah - sifr - book that unveils things.
Scribes that take record from the Lawh al Mahfoodh and unveil it to the Messengers' through revelation. Others say it refers to the scribes of the Messenger of Allah - his
companions, who hear the Qur'an from Allah's Messenger and transcribeit.
Majority view is the Angels, based on the next ayah.
Go to Top^
Ayah 16:
كِرَامٍ بَرَرَةٍ
Noble and dutiful.
kiraamin bararah.
bararah - plural of barr بَرَرَ (without alif in the middle). = goodness andsomeone extremely good.
baar بَارَ [with alif in the middle] - someone who is good, but not as good as barr بَرَرَ.
The plural of baar بَارَ = abraar ابَرَارَ
More poweful plural of baar = bararahبَرَرَةٍ.
bararah بَرَرَةٍ - jam'u kathrah. (alot)
Abraar ابَرَارَ - jam'u qilah. (a few).
The Angels are grouped as bararah, and humans as abraar because thereare alot more angels who are good in comparison to few good humans.
Angels are Entirely righteous. The most noble and righteous of angels are the Qur'ans scribes. This is the same message [Qur'an] you [disbelievers] hear, and if you
don't benefit from it - you are in loss, not those who are better than you.
This is a reply of Allah to His Messenger who is always at extremegrief because they do notbelieve. Allah is continuously ensuring him that if they don't want tobelieve,
they are the ones at loss.
After giving the upper hand to the message itself, we return back to the matter of the human being.
And Who are you to say who is pure and who is not?
41:44
And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained in detail [in our language]? Is it a foreign [recitation] and an Arab [messenger]?" Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness. Those are being called from a distant place. (44)
This verse is speaking about the language of the Quran. Now keep in mind most people who study hadith, do not memorize them but memorize Quran, I myself am trying to memorize the whole thing. This verse is also talking about the Kuffar who are blind and def.
6. How much is the Jizyah that the People of the Book have to pay?
The taxation of a people because of their faith can only be found in the books of Hadith (the same books which condone stoning people to death, owning slaves, killing people for apostasy, etc.). The Qur?an imposes no tax on any people because of their race/creed/faith. The ?Jizya? that the Qur?an speaks about in 9:29 is ?reparation? that the people of the Book had to pay for their hostile actions against the system of God.
This is untrue, the people of the book are commanded to be fought until they pay the jizya. Actually how do you know that it was because of there fighting against Allah's system? What is the context of these verses? When were they revealed? Why does Surah Tawba not have a "Bismillah" in the begginning?
7. Does the Quran say that cross dressing is haram?
Male and female dress is a function of culture. The Gulf Arabs wear what would be considered ?dresses? in the West, as do the Scotish with their ?kilts?. The Qur?an gives guidelines for what is the minimum dress code required of men and women (see 24:30-31).
8. The Quran says that men could beat up their wives. But we know according to hadith that this is a spiritual beating and not a harmful physical. What is to stop a man from misinterpreting the Quran and beating the hell out of his wife?
The Qur?an says that, in a man fearing his wife deserting him ?nushooz?, one of the options to be observed is ?idriboohun?. The Hadith followers take this word to mean ?beat/strike? due to their hostility towards women and how they think they should be treated. Whilst, in the Qur?an, the word ?Idrib? is also given the meaning of ?put forth/go forth? (see 14:24, 2:273, 4:94). In selecting the most appropriate meaning to fit the context (as commanded in 39:18), the best meaning word is to ?separate from them? (i.e. the first option in dealing with a woman who wants to desert her husband is to talk to her, the second is to sleep separately, the third is to separate). The Hadith followers would prefer beating her into submission, but somehow that does not seem to address the topic being addressed in the verse.
The word used has a lot of meanings to it, you have tadabbur, idrib, idribhoon. And why use the word Idrib when Allah can use the word Talaq? You know in reality talaq is a very disliked act to do, the context of this verse shows that you want to solve the problem, thats why in the Quran Allah tells us to have taqwa of Allah almost every verse pertaining to divorce in surah baqara. Its a serious Issue.
Speaking of divorce, who is this man zayd mentioned in the Quran?
[033:037] And recall that man (Zayd)? Allah had done favors upon him, and you had too. You were saying to him, ?Fear Allah, keep your wife and do not divorce her.? Allah was going to bring out into the open that which you kept hidden in your heart at that time. You were afraid of people, although that is Allah?s right! You should fear Him only! When Zayd had completed his object (of divorcing his wife), We married her to you. (We did that) so the believers may have no restriction in (and may have no stigma attached to) marrying the former wives of their adopted sons, provided the adopted sons had already divorced their wives. The commands of Allah must be fulfilled!
What is the context of this verse? And Who is Zayd?
9. Is it permissible for a man to look at a naked man?
A man?s private areas must be covered at all times in the presence of other people except their spouses (24:30, 23:5-6).
10. Can I pray Salaah naked?
If there are no people present in-front of whom ones private parts must be covered, then, yes.
So being naked in front of Allah and worshiping him does not bother you at all?
11. How do we know the order of the alcohol revelations? Maybe the first of the Quranic revelations said it was haram and then the later ones came saying that is was okay except during prayer times. How do you know the order of its revelations by using the Quran alone?
Alcohol has never been made forbidden in any Quranic verse, which makes it permissible. However, there are guidelines as to its use and a warning as to its negative effects (see 4:43, 5:90, 2:219).
Woow, even the kuffar know that alchohol is bad.
[002:219] They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allah makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought."
[005:090] O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, AlAnsab, and AlAzlam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitans (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.
These two verses are clear, are you telling me that Allah says that which has a little bit of benefit should still be avoided, and calling it shaytaan does not show it to be totally haram? I think you are the def dumb and blind one.
12. It says in the Quran to shorten the prayer when you travel. How long do you have to travel? How short to cut the prayer?
The Qur?an allows the shortening of Salat in case of an enemy being present (see 4:101). The normal unit for Salat is 2 rakas ?prostrations?, shortening the Salat becomes 1 raka ?prostration? (see 4:102).
There are nothing in these verses that say 2 rakat.
Or 1 rakat
13. In Surah 66:3, the Prophet told his wives that he knew because Allah had informed him about it. Show me a Quranic verse where Allah had informed the Prophet about it. You cannot. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?
There are many communications between God and His messengers that are designed to be private (such as the inspirations given to Jacob, or the dream given to Abraham, or the inspiration given Joseph, etc.) and even some communication between God and some regular humans (such as the mother of Moses being inspired to place him in the river). This does not mean that such communication is meant for the public, nor does it mean that such communication is law. The only communication that we regard as law is the Qur?an which has been defined by God as such (see 5:48).
Those examples you named are of past messengers and those communications were revealed amongst those messengers. We are speaking of the final messenger.
14. Surah 2:173 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?
The original Qibla given to the prophet was to set himself wherever he chose (see 2:115) for God encompasses the east and the west. Later on, the Qibla was reversed as a test for the believers (see 2:142), and then was firmly established as being set towards the Restricted Temple (see 2:144).
[2:115] Sahih International
And to Allah belongs the east and the west. So wherever you [might] turn, there is the Face of Allah. Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.
15. The Quran is passed on to us by Mutawattir narrations. Mutawattir narrations are narrations by so many people that it is just impossible for all of them to get together and plot and lie. However, we have so many Mutawattir hadith List of Mutawatir hadith http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/Index.asp?Lang=ENG&Type=3 that teach things that are not in the Quran. How can you reject their authenticity with no objective evidence?
The Qur?an has been passed via a physical book that was first penned and arranged by the prophet himself (see 25:5, 16:101-102); therefore, to give any credit to ?others? so as to raise the level of their legitimacy is to undermine the work of God and His messenger. As for the notion that it is impossible for so many people to collaborate on a lie, we would cite the teachings of today?s Christianity with the trinity and son of God concept are the clearest proof that it is indeed probable and possible to lie about God and His messenger, and that billions of people unknowingly continue to carry and propagate the lie as if it were truth.
I've answered this above, the fact is the one who has given us hadith were the same ones to give us the Quran. Now to compare Christianity to Islam is a fault on your part, why? Because Christianity did not become such a wide spread lie until Islam came into place, there were a lot of Tawheed loving Christians before the advent of Islam, but the closer to the time of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him the more less they became. This is because the only true deen is the deen of Allah, and Allah has said that
[61:9] Sahih International
It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although those who associate others with Allah dislike it.
I'll ask you what i ask the shia, do you honestly believe after the first generation of the Muslims that Allah will just allow the Muslim Ummah to fall so easily?
God tells us that the Qur?an is detailed (see 6:114), complete (see 6:115), and a clarification for all things (see 16:89). Yet, the Hadith followers dare to challenge such assertions made by the Almighty to defend the precious idols they have created!
What idols? :S Muslims are the strictest towards the mushrikun.
Unfortunately, no matter how abhorring we find the very concept of Hadith, there is little that can be done to stop its spread or existence as it has been proclaimed by God that the human and Jinn devils will be permitted to propagate their lies and fabrications.
?And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet ? human and Jinn devils ? to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications. That is so the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter will listen to it, and they will accept it, and they will take of it what they will.? (Qur?an 6:112-113)
To the verses you quoted, this is obviously talking about what you see on CNN, FOX and other wise
[005:041] Oh messenger! Do not let those who rush to reject (the truth) cause you any grief. Among them are those who say, ?We believe!? by their tongue, while their hearts do not believe. Among them are (many) Jews who listen solely for the sake of lying (later on). They spy for others who do not come to you. They (misquote you and) change the words out of context. (To their followers) they say, ?Accede and accept if you are told such and such, and be weary if you are told anything different.? You (Oh Muhammad, SAW) have no authority at all to help the one whom Allah wants to (tempt and) test through an ordeal. They are among those whose hearts Allah has chosen not to cleanse and purify. Disgrace (and defeat) is their lot in this world, and in the life-to-come they shall face the severest (most awful) punishment.
You Lot are a bunch of Munafiqs because of this verse
2:13] Sahih International
And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.
When we tell you to believe as the First of us believe you say "Are we to believe as the foolish have believe". Most believers are of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamah and it has always been like that, that is a historical fact and to claim other wise is idiotic.
The hadith have had a lot of prophecies that have came true.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/cults/anti_muslim_hadithrejectors.html
As well what is the context of this verse??
[17:1] Sahih International
Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al-Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
What were the signs shown? When did Allah take his slave? What happened from Masjid al Haram to al Masjid Al Aqsa?
I've met you hadith rejectors and you are the rudest lot of people i've ever seen, do not like listening to proof, and just push away at the people.
If you say that alcohol is not haram than you are fulfilling the prophecy that says "There will be people among my Ummah who makes alcohol, silk, Music halal" (paraphrased version of the hadith"
Saheeh and the Gospels
Regarding comparison of Saheeh with Gospels (#2), let's listen to Dr. Hamidullah. "The compilation of the Gospels, their preservation and transmission from one generation to the other, has not taken place in the way which governed the books of Hadith... We do not know who wrote them, who translated them, and who transmitted them. How were they transferred from the original Aramaic to Greek? Did the scribes make arrangements for a faithful reproduction of the original? The four Gospels are mentioned, for the first time, three hundred years after Christ. Should we rely on such an unauthentic book in preference to that of Bukhari who prefaces every statement of two lines with three to nine references?"
AS well what is the context of this verse??
[009:040] If you fail to help the prophet, (Allah will)! Allah had certainly helped him when the unbelievers had driven him out (of the town). He was (at that time) one of the two. The two of them were (hiding) in a cave when he said to his companion, ?Do not worry, Allah is with us.? So Allah, by His grace, caused the (reassuring) peace and serenity to descend upon him. (Allah) strengthened him with forces you could not see. He brought the words (and slogans) of the unbelievers down to the lowest level, while the word of Allah is (always) Supreme. Allah is the Almighty, and the Wisest.
Who is the second? What is the full story?
The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was the best man EVER. Point blank period. Wouldn't you suspect those whom the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him loved to narrate his stories to their children and their fellow Muslim brothers? It only makes sense. With those stories their will be incidents of concern. The Islamic reality is a reality, its a real government. Not something that is a utopia of some sort.
If you are very angry and upset, maybe you want to clam down a little, so you can think clearly. And maybe you can understand the logic in this?
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602474.0 Obeying Mohammed = Obeying God. (rejection of Hadith)
Please read, and respond.
Let us not forget that the Ummah of Muhammad (peace be upon him) was describe to be
[2:143] Pickthall
Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankin
IF we are called Ummatul Wasat, the balanced nation, than how can we be on the extreme side? The majority of this Ummah Obeys Allah and Obeys the Messenger, and Loves Allah and follows his messenger.
The fitra would surely be against the notion of hadith, but that is not true most people follow the sunnah. It teaches us how to maintain our beard, how to be clean, teaches us lessons, and complements the Quran. I myself read a lot of Quran, more than hadith.
Now The scholars of hadith, were among the scholars who transmitted the Quran to us, and among the scholars who preserved the classical Arabic language. For instance Imam Ashaffi was an expert in the Arabic language, his teacher and his student (contemporary) were both hadith scholars (Imam Malik and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal may Allah have mercy on them)
Allah has said about the Ulama
[35:28] Sahih International
And among people and moving creatures and grazing livestock are various colors similarly. Only those fear Allah, from among His servants, are those who have knowledge. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Forgiving.
]وَمِنَ النَّاسِ وَالدَّوَابِّ وَالْأَنْعَامِ مُخْتَلِفٌ أَلْوَانُهُ كَذَٰلِكَ ۗ إِنَّمَا يَخْشَى اللَّـهَ مِنْ عِبَادِهِ الْعُلَمَاءُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ عَزِيزٌ غَفُورٌ ﴿٢٨
What we know about this verse is that there are scholars amongst us, the Ulama. There are also corrupt scholars. Now all the scholars amongst us , whether good or bad have accepted the hadith. What is your answer to this?
There is much more things up there i have said, look at the quote i quoted, it has a lot of answers that you need to review than answer. There is a lot things i have answered in that quote.
You seem to be quite new, to Quran Alone thinking. There are quite a few verses I can post, although that would get a bit tedious. You might aswell look at already written articles or websites. But please try to understand the argument I linked to earlier.
I have posting this logic elsewhere aswell, but I thought I`d make a post on it`s own about the subject.
We all know the quranic statement that "Obeying Mohammed is Obeying God".
How can then the hadithist state that obeying Mohammed in hadith, which are not inspired by God, to be Obeying God?
Several verses deal with this logic of Mohammed voices God. "He speaks not of his own desire."
That means hadith, can ultimately only deal with God, but they do not.
How is it that so much litterature, can then speak of a personal Mohammed? From Quranic Logic we can see that he does not exist!
The quranic logic, fits only, when we talk about a fulltime messenger. A person who voices only God, whom obeying, is obeying God.
Conclusion: There is no personal Mohammed to be obeyed. All tales of him, after he entered messengerhood, stating what is deemed uninspired by God, must be false. If there has been fabricated this large extent of hadith, then all of them are subject to extreme questioning of validity
This is untrue, there are places where i did tackle this argument for instance Allah told the messenger you stand on a noble character.
As well there are a bunch of places i commented on before that commented on him. That makes no sense, every messenger in the Quran who were important were commented on in the Quran. The Quran is a book of guidance right?
Why mention Fighting in the cause of Allah? Who fights in the cause of Allah? Surely it must be an act that is being carried on even to this day.
Why would Allah tell us to follow the messenger in Surah number 3 and the verse i quoted up there?
Why don't you answer my arguments??
Reading upon this forum, a lot of you people are confused. Try to give your own interpretation of the Quran and are very much disunited in your thinking. You say the "personal" Muhammad peace be upon him is not true.
His wives were mentioned, moments of his life, his name 4 times.
It was also said in the Quran about him
لَّقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّـهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّـهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّـهَ كَثِيرًا ﴿٢١﴾
[33:21] Sahih International
There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.
The you is a personal you, Allah said that the pattern of the Messenger of Allah, why would he not specify that him conducting towards the Quran? Allah talks about this pattern than there must be explanation, reports, and stories of this pattern.
You didn`t see it did you. Lets see if I can simplfy it even more.
FOLLOWING HADITH UNINSPIRED BY GOD IS NOT OBEYING GOD.
Or maybe:
Obeying the messenger is obeying God.
Obeying hadith, is obeying non-inspired from God.
I`m sorry but if you can`t follow the argument, it gets quite difficult to convey very solid proof of forgery in hadith.
Alhamdulillah, God inspires me.
Mohammed voices God at all times. That is why obeying him, is obeying God.
However Mohammed does not voice God, in regular hadith!
That means these hadith must be forged.
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I will like to say to all the hadith and sunna followers that if they believe that the Rope of God (The Quran) is similar to the traditions/sayings written about Muhammad 300-400 years after his death then they should hold there tongue when they debate amongst the Christians and the Jews! The Hadith and Sunna has 10 times more contradictions than the Bible!!!!! How in all that is good can God ask his servants to follow books that have numerous contradictions??? It is like a teacher giving a student a book filled with mistakes and errors to study for a test. If the student fails who is to blame? The teacher or the student?.... Is it not the teacher?
People need to use a bit of common sense these days. The verses in the Quran attributed to Muhammad are meant for when HE WAS ALIVE! Not when he has passed away!!! Muhammad was only instructed to deliver the Quran! Not sunna and hadith! Only those who are misguided will follow tales of a mortal man who in reality made mistakes just like any ordinary man. What is so different from the followers of sunna and hadith when compared to the Christian's who pray with mentioning of Jesus in there prays??? Isn't Muhammad know seen like a man God amongst the so called muslims of today??? (Read Sura 80)
No follower of sunna or hadith could ever win a argument of reason with any of those who follow the previous scriptures! How could they if they themselves follow more numerous contradictions than the Jews and Christians today? The path that God has sent for those who are sincere is straight and easy. Not filled with contradictions and mysteries! These are for people who have little understanding and who have no brains for themselves. They enjoy having tales bottle feed to them from those who are themselves corrupt and have no understanding or logic!
You stay with your numerous contradictions and keep it to yourself.
But please remember one thing, you will NEVER find ' a way ' that is better than what God has prescribed for those who acknowledge him ALONE and those who understand.
"I do not serve what you serve,"
"Nor do you serve what I serve,"
"Nor will I serve what you serve,"
"To you is your system, and to me is mine." Sura 109:2-6
PS : Maybe you can ask Muhammad for help to.....Ooops I forgot he's dead. Common sense is not common in any generation of people.
you seem to forget that the Quran is a book of guidance until the day of Judgement and Allah would not mention a verse just while he is alive. Besides can you provide a verse that says to follow him only when he is Alive? You haven't Answered any of the claims. And I've shown that the argument is not only obey Allah and Obey His Messenger. There are no real contradiction in hadith just minor differences that can be reconciled.
From reading upon Hadith rejectors, you men are laughable. So much contradictions in your beliefs
Some of you believe Intoxicants are haram, others don't some just reject hadith and believe in Seerah transmissions (transmissions of the biography of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) others do not.
If someone can answer me point by point that'll be better. Gosh you guys are like the shia!
Peace LionOfIslam
it's nice to see someone who is passionate about what they believe, although no need for harshness. even in sunnism and shiasm there are idiotic claims.
QuoteSeveral verses deal with this logic of Mohammed voices God. "He speaks not of his own desire."
That means hadith, can ultimately only deal with God, but they do not.
the Quran that was given to us from the messenger was truly a blessing. however if we claim hadith is the same level of Quran than surely we are doing an injustice to Allah swt. Also your logic is a lil faulty. hadith and quran are 2 different sources. the way in which they were transmitted were different, their importance are different. ultimately we have a duty to discover truth, verify knowledge. islam is known as "deen el3amal" (deen of deeds) not deen of blind faith. clarify what you meant by "but they do not". maybe i've misunderstood you.
also let's look at all the several verses that deal with the logic of Muhammed voices God with "He speaks not of his own desire".
let's have a dialogue :)
p.s
I'll answer you by points (to the best of my ability) if you bring one point at a time, i didn't read your first post of essays. so if you genuinely care and not just in for arguing let's do point by point.
Salam
Why don't you first answer what i've said above. The Umatul Wasat, the mention of bad and good ulema. And so on and so forth. If you won't i will not repost anything.
Actually debating is really hardening the heart that is suppose to be soft.
At Tirmidhee reposts a hasan hadeeth, from Abu Umaamah, who said: Allahs messenger said, "A People never went astray after being upon guidance except through disputation". Then Allaahs messenger recitied
"This they set forth to you, only by way of argument. Nay, but they are a contentious people." Surah Az Zukhruf (43):58.
There are some questions that you simply can't answer. Point blank period. So wait, we are waiting too.
Keep in mind, we are not Sunni, we are Muslims who are among Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamah. And i agree with you that the shia are rediculous, but they are your brothers because they attack the hadith traditions as well.
People who claim to follow the Quran will never be like the shia. Ture believers don?t fabricate things to suit our own agenda. Unlike the Shia, real believers are true monotheists who follow God?s word to the letter. The Hadith and Sunna is NOT God?s word nor will it ever be God?s word.
Our differences among us (monotheists) stem from different translations in the Quran and not MAJOR contradictions that the sunni and shia have. However even with our different interpretations at the end of the day we respect one another. Can that be done with the Sunni and Shia???
And no, the contradictions in the Hadith and Sunna are not minor. You having read the Hadith would not dear lie among people who have previously studied the Hadith and have come to the conclusion that it is a pack of nonsense. The Quran is God?s word and guide to the world, and not Muhammad who the so called ?Muslims? have shamed and place him as some sort of man God to be followed.
6:39 Those who deny Our signs, they are deaf and dumb, in darkness. Whoever God wishes He misguides, and whoever He wishes He makes him on a straight path.
Simplicity will not work for people who don?t truly acknowledge that God alone suffices as a judge. If you want to follow blindly what your imam and hadith teachings say then do it. At the end of days we shall see who was on the right path and who wasn?t . I will follow what God says. The reason why you don?t see what we see is solely because you don?t approach the Quran with sincerity.
56:79 None can grasp it except the pure (sincere).
Salaam All,
If we do indeed believe that the word of GOD, Almighty, precedes the word of man, then let us start with the word of ALLAAH, swt.
2:62,
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنۡ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡيَوۡمِ ٱلۡأَخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحً۬ا فَلَهُمۡ أَجۡرُهُمۡ عِندَ رَبِّهِمۡ وَلَا خَوۡفٌ عَلَيۡہِمۡ وَلَا هُمۡ يَحۡزَنُونَ (٦٢
Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabians - whoever believeth in Allaah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (62)
5:69,
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـُٔونَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ مَنۡ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡيَوۡمِ ٱلۡأَخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحً۬ا فَلَا خَوۡفٌ عَلَيۡهِمۡ وَلَا هُمۡ يَحۡزَنُونَ (٦٩
Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allaah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (69)
According to the two verses above, believing in, ALLAAH, swt, and the Last Day, and leading a righteous constructive life, is enough to be counted as a Muslim, i.e. the person is on the right path and GOD Willing he/she will end up in Paradise and NOT in Hell.
The rest is man-made nonsense, fabricated by the Satan himself causing animosity among us, preventing us from our main duty, i.e. worshiping GOD Alone. See verse 51:56
وَمَا خَلَقۡتُ ٱلۡجِنَّ وَٱلۡإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعۡبُدُونِ (٥٦
I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me. (56)
So, we must be wary of the Satan?s plots and whispering among us. See 17:53.
وَقُل لِّعِبَادِى يَقُولُواْ ٱلَّتِى هِىَ أَحۡسَنُۚ إِنَّ ٱلشَّيۡطَـٰنَ يَنزَغُ بَيۡنَہُمۡۚ إِنَّ ٱلشَّيۡطَـٰنَ كَانَ لِلۡإِنسَـٰنِ عَدُوًّ۬ا مُّبِينً۬ا (٥٣
Tell My bondmen to speak that which is kindlier. Lo! The devil soweth discord among them. Lo! The devil is for man an open foe. (53)
Seek refuge to ALLAAH, swt, from the Satan. See 7:200 & 41:36,
وَإِمَّا يَنزَغَنَّكَ مِنَ ٱلشَّيۡطَـٰنِ نَزۡغٌ۬ فَٱسۡتَعِذۡ بِٱللَّهِۚ إِنَّهُ ۥ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ (٢٠٠)
وَإِمَّا يَنزَغَنَّكَ مِنَ ٱلشَّيۡطَـٰنِ نَزۡغٌ۬ فَٱسۡتَعِذۡ بِٱللَّهِۖ إِنَّهُ ۥ هُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلۡعَلِيمُ (٣٦
And if a whisper from the devil reaches thee (O Muhammad) then seek refuge in Allah. Lo! He is the Hearer, the Knower. (36)
Ultimately, GOD Almighty, and no one else, is the one who Judges among us.
Peace,
Khalil
Greetings and Peace, LionOfIslam and others :group:
Are you aware that the Quran states that it is complete and clear?
44:2 By the Book that makes things clear.
6:114 Shall I seek other than GOD as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed? Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
6:115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing the GOD's words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of GOD; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
To accept the straightforward truth of the Quran means that extra-Quranic hadith are rejected. To accept extra-Quranic hadith is to reject the Quran. Choose as choose will--there is no honest middle ground. Do you unequivocally accept the Quran as guidance--or will you choose what is traditional, popular, and easy? Is ALLAH's Guidance enough for you?
Most persons on this board metaphorically embrace the Quran--although we don't worship it--and reject extra-Quranic hadith. Putting forth arguments based on other than than the Quran won't hold any water. This includes all forms of tradition/Sunna. Some people may indulge in tradition, but those that do so recognize that it has nothing to do with Monotheism.
39:23 The GOD has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways. The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for The GOD's message. Such is The GOD's guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills. As for those sent astray by The GOD, nothing can guide them.
45:6 These are the revelations of GOD, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative after GOD and His revelations do they believe?
7:185 Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that GOD has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which narrative after this one will they believe?
77:50 So in what narrative, after it, will they believe?
25:30 And the messenger said: "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
Although an individual's path may be well beaten, on Judgement Day, the judgement is individual--be it favorable or not so much.
For myself, I wish you well in your journey. ISA, you'll find the Quran-based articles on the main page informative.
May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers to the true path.
:peace:
~Abdul-Hadi
Quote from: LionOfIslam on May 23, 2011, 09:40:14 PM
Why don't you first answer what i've said above. The Umatul Wasat, the mention of bad and good ulema. And so on and so forth. If you won't i will not repost anything.
Actually debating is really hardening the heart that is suppose to be soft.
At Tirmidhee reposts a hasan hadeeth, from Abu Umaamah, who said: Allahs messenger said, "A People never went astray after being upon guidance except through disputation". Then Allaahs messenger recitied
"This they set forth to you, only by way of argument. Nay, but they are a contentious people." Surah Az Zukhruf (43):58.
There are some questions that you simply can't answer. Point blank period. So wait, we are waiting too.
Please, be patient, and answer the following question? Is this hadith, from Mohammed or God?
Brother you are obviously being evasive, if you have a question please ask it. You cannot expect someone to answer you when you bombard them with so many thoughts. Would the Rasool do such a thing? The Rasool had the best mannerism and etiquettes if you truly follow the ahlul sunnah wal jama3a you will be honoured to share your knowledge.
we haven't started an argument for you to share verses of hadith and Quran about disputes. ATM it seems we are disputing what the problem is.
What exactly do you want answered above? Give a specific question you don?t just throw an encyclopaedia at someone and ask them "tell me what it all says". Pick a question and we?ll go from there.
salam
Quote from: LionOfIslam on May 23, 2011, 09:41:48 PM
Keep in mind, we are not Sunni, [u]we are Muslims[/u] who are among Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamah. And i agree with you that the shia are rediculous, but they are your brothers because they attack the hadith traditions as well.
No,
YOU are NOT a Muslim.You disobey Allah and the Prophet Muhammad. Peace be upon all the Prophets of Allah.
Don't believe me? Call me a liar? Demand I bring proof of my claim? Yes, let us bring our proof.
Let's take a test and see who really serves Allah and obeys the Prophet, and who does not.This is ?pass or fail?, just as it will be on the Day of Judgment. Let us see who truly rejects the Quran.Only in the Quran, the pure, protected revelation, do we have proof of the Messenger?s words:
"Say: 'I do not find, in what is revealed to me, anything forbidden to him who eats thereof except it be carrion, or blood outpoured, or the flesh of swine -- that is unclean -- or an ungodly thing that has been blessed to other than Allah; yet whoso is constrained, not desiring nor transgressing, surely thy Lord is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.'" Surah 6:145
That is the Prophet Muhammad speaking. He states nothing is forbidden EXCEPT four specific foods. Carrion, blood, flesh of swine, and food blessed to another god.Now turn to hadith, and count how many foods are forbidden within.
Then look to the additions in the Torah and
find the same forbidden foods as the Jews ? Orthodox Yahduians who follow the Talmud, also known as the Oral Law; hadith of Moses.
Beasts with fangs: Sahih Bukhari #5527, Sahih Muslim # 2721
Donkey Meat: Sahih Bukhari #5521
Birds with talons: Sahih Muslim # 4752
Amphibians: Saheeh Jaami #6970
Beasts with fangs: Lev. 11:3; Deut. 14:6
Donkey Meat: Lev. 11:3-4, Deut. 14:7
Birds with talons: Lev. 11:13-20, Deut. 14:12
Amphibians: Lev. 11:29-30, 42-43, Deut. 14:10
Halal/kosher food: Lev. 11:1-46, Deut. 14:3-21
Allah revealed to the Messenger that all foods not forbidden in the Quran were permitted to the People of the Book. ?
Today the good things are permitted you, and the food of those who were given the Book is permitted to you, and permitted to them is your food; Likewise believing women in wedlock, and in wedlock women of them who were given the Book before you if you give them their wages, in wedlock and not in licence, or as taking lovers. Whoso disbelieves in the faith, his work has failed, and in the world to come he shall be among the losers.? Surah 5:5
When proof is given, who is shown to reject the Quran and who is shown to uphold it?
"The Truth has come and falsehood vanished. Surely falsehood is ever bound to vanish." Surah 17:81, 34:47-50
Only believers, Muslims with faith in their heart who uphold the revelation of Allah, the word of an honored Messenger, pass the test. Surah 69:40-43, 81:19
Allah condemns hadiths: Surah 7:185,12:111, 31:6, 45:6, 52:34, 68:44, 77:50
?These are the communications of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what saying (hadeethin) would they believe after Allah and His communications?? Surah 45:6
?Allah has revealed the best saying (hadeethin), a Book (Kitaban) conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him.? Surah 39:23
Those who uphold hadith reject the Quran.
Allah has not given authority to follow anything but what He revealed.?Follow what has been revealed to you from your Lord and do not follow guardians besides Him, how little do you mind.? Surah 7:3
You are not a Muslim. Call yourself a Jew, a Christian, a Sunni, a Shia, Islamist, call yourself whatever you want. But you can
never call yourself a Muslim
as long as you associate partners with Allah. Enjoy this life. Surah 14:30, 4:56
Peace.
Jeez..stop with the labels everybody! Faith and Religion is SUPPOSED to bring harmony. Stop fighting over who is and is not a muslim. THats none of your business or concern. Let God be the judge of that.
Also LionofIslam, I would recommend you to actually repost your questions one at a time and let us all give answers and ask questions and reach towards a better understanding of the word of God. If your intention is to solely throw accusations, then your just wasting your time. We all agree Quran to be the word of God..so lets use that as a common ground to start off asking questions and receiving answers.
salam
Just reply naturally, please. I believe that is a good part of what "surrender" is about. Yes, he came in here steered by an offensive hadith. That provokes, and naturally people react. But you don`t have to be regurgitating lexicons, or entire articles, just because of it. But if you feel like contribution to the discussing, in some aspect, do that.
Engange in dialogue, in the best of ways.
Quote from: LionOfIslam on May 23, 2011, 02:03:01 PM
I'd like to answer the Heretics on this forum and the points of this article below
My writing is in blue insha'Allah
To the verses you quoted, this is obviously talking about what you see on CNN, FOX and other wise
[005:041] Oh messenger! Do not let those who rush to reject (the truth) cause you any grief. Among them are those who say, ?We believe!? by their tongue, while their hearts do not believe. Among them are (many) Jews who listen solely for the sake of lying (later on). They spy for others who do not come to you. They (misquote you and) change the words out of context. (To their followers) they say, ?Accede and accept if you are told such and such, and be weary if you are told anything different.? You (Oh Muhammad, SAW) have no authority at all to help the one whom Allah wants to (tempt and) test through an ordeal. They are among those whose hearts Allah has chosen not to cleanse and purify. Disgrace (and defeat) is their lot in this world, and in the life-to-come they shall face the severest (most awful) punishment.
You Lot are a bunch of Munafiqs because of this verse
As many, you have wrongly quoted the aayat above. There is NO (Oh Mohammad, SAW) nor it is referring to Prophet Mohammed. Before labeling others with your 'favorite titles' please take a look at the link below:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602494.0
Hope this may help you understand better, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all to His only path :pr
Mohammed M. Khan
Quote from: LionOfIslam on May 23, 2011, 02:14:00 PM
AS well what is the context of this verse??
[009:040] If you fail to help the prophet, (Allah will)! Allah had certainly helped him when the unbelievers had driven him out (of the town). He was (at that time) one of the two. The two of them were (hiding) in a cave when he said to his companion, ?Do not worry, Allah is with us.? So Allah, by His grace, caused the (reassuring) peace and serenity to descend upon him. (Allah) strengthened him with forces you could not see. He brought the words (and slogans) of the unbelievers down to the lowest level, while the word of Allah is (always) Supreme. Allah is the Almighty, and the Wisest.
Where did you get "the prophet" in the aayat brother, I don't see it in Arabic text. Do you follow the same AlQuraan that I follow? :hmm
Mohammed M. Khan
Quote from: LionOfIslam on May 23, 2011, 02:55:32 PM
We all know the quranic statement that "Obeying Mohammed is Obeying God".
How can then the hadithist state that obeying Mohammed in hadith, which are not inspired by God, to be Obeying God?
Again a wrong quote. Allah never said the above red highlighted part in AlQuraan as you claim. As I said in my previous post please follow http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602494.0
Mohammed M. Khan
Quote from: LionOfIslam on May 23, 2011, 03:01:58 PM
Reading upon this forum, a lot of you people are confused. Try to give your own interpretation of the Quran and are very much disunited in your thinking. You say the "personal" Muhammad peace be upon him is not true.
His wives were mentioned, moments of his life, his name 4 times.
It was also said in the Quran about him
لَّقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّـهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّـهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّـهَ كَثِيرًا ﴿٢١﴾
[33:21] Sahih International
There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.
The you is a personal you, Allah said that the pattern of the Messenger of Allah, why would he not specify that him conducting towards the Quran? Allah talks about this pattern than there must be explanation, reports, and stories of this pattern.
So, how about this:
60:4
قد كانت لكم أسوة حسنة في إبرهيم والذين معه إذ قالوا لقومهم إنا برءؤا منكم ومما تعبدون من دون الله كفرنا بكم وبدا بيننا وبينكم العدوة والبغضاء أبدا حتى تؤمنوا بالله وحده إلا قول إبرهيم لأبيه لأستغفرن لك وما أملك لك من الله من شيء ربنا عليك توكلنا وإليك أنبنا وإليك المصير60:4 There has been a good example set for you by Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are innocent from you and what you serve besides Allah. We have rejected you, and it appears that there shall be animosity and hatred between us and you until you believe in Allah alone. Except for the saying of Abraham to his father: I will ask forgiveness for you, but I do not possess any power to protect you from Allah. Our Lord, we have put our trust in You, and we turn to You, and to You is the final destiny.
It came with the name Ibrahim (AS) and others with them. Do we have to search for Ibrahim's (AS) hadeeth to get his uswa or pattern?
May Allah guide us all to His only path :pr
Mohammed M. Khan
Quote from: rraza on May 25, 2011, 07:40:51 AM
Jeez..stop with the labels everybody! Faith and Religion is SUPPOSED to bring harmony. Stop fighting over who is and is not a muslim. THats none of your business or concern. Let God be the judge of that.
"Jeez"? Why do you invoke a pagan god?
geez (jz)
interj.
Used to express mild surprise, delight, dissatisfaction, or annoyance.
[Shortening and alteration of Jesus.]'Jee-zeus' origins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSgEVgFSau4
Be careful of who you associate with. You will become like them if you take them as intimates, guardians, and friends.
On the contrary, we ARE to be concerned who is an unbeliever and who is a believer.
"He has sent down upon you in the Book: 'When you hear Allah's signs being disbelieved and made mock of, do not sit with them until they plunge into some other talk, or else you will surely be like to them.' Allah will gather the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in Gehenna." Surah 4:140
"Those who disbelieve and bar from Allah's way, Allah will send their works astray.
But those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what is sent down to Muhammad -- and it is the truth from their Lord -- He will acquit them of their evil deeds, and dispose their minds aright.
That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Even so Allah strikes their similitudes for men." Surah 47:1-3
"O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be thou harsh with them; their refuge shall be Gehenna -- an evil homecoming!" Surah 66:9
"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are strong (ashiddao) against the unbelievers, merciful one to another. Thou seest them bowing, prostrating, seeking bounty from God and good pleasure. Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel: as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows stout and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them He may enrage the unbelievers. Allah has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage." Surah 48:29
"And when a certain nation of them said, 'Why do you admonish a people God is about to destroy or to chastise with a terrible chastisement?' They said, 'As an excuse to your Lord; and haply they will be godfearing.'
So, when they forgot that they were reminded of; We delivered those who were forbidding wickedness, and We seized the evildoers with evil chastisement for their ungodliness." Surah 7:164-165
This man came to fight, enraged by the actions of those who serve Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
Proof is given he is led astray by the teachings of satans and associates partners with Allah.
Are you saying those who associate partners with Allah are Muslims?
If this is your claim, please provide proof from the Quran to support this.If you are not saying this nor can you prove your claim, why are you being an advocate for those who bar from Allah's way?
"Surely We have sent down to thee the Book with the truth, so that thou mayest judge between the people by that Allah has shown thee. So be not an advocate for the traitors;" Surah 4:105
Do not become friends/intimates with disbelievers: Surah 4:139, 4:144, 5:51, 5:57, 6:71, 6:129, 7:3, 7:27, 7:30, 9:23, 18:50, 58:14, 60:1, 60:13
?Those who take unbelievers for their friends instead of believers -- do they seek glory in them? But glory altogether belongs to God.? 4:139
?O believers, take not the unbelievers as friends instead of the believers; or do you desire to give God over you a clear authority?? Surah 4:144
?O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. God guides not the people of the evildoers.? Surah 5:51
?O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport -- and fear God, if you are believers ?? Surah 5:57
?Thou seest many of them making unbelievers their friends. Evil is that they have forwarded to their account, that God is angered against them, and in the chastisement they shall dwell forever.
Yet had they believed in God and the Prophet and what has been sent down to him, they would not have taken them as friends; but many of them are ungodly.? Surah 5:80-81
?Say: 'Shall we call, apart from God, on that which neither profits nor hurts us, and shall we be turned back on our heels after that God has guided us? -- Like one lured to bewilderment in the earth by Satans, though he has friends who call him to guidance, "Come to us!" Say: 'God's guidance is the true guidance, and we are commanded to surrender to the Lord of all Being,? Surah 6:71
?So We make the evildoers friends of each other for what they have earned.? Surah 6:129
?Children of Adam! Let not Satan tempt you as he brought your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their garments to show them their shameful parts. Surely he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you see them not. We have made the Satans the friends of those who do not believe.? Surah 7:27
?a part He guided, and a part justly disposed to error -- they have taken Satans for friends instead of God, and think them guided.'? Surah 7:30
?O believers, take not your fathers and brothers to be your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief; whosoever of you takes them for friends, those -- they are the evildoers.? Surah 9:23
?And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he was one of the jinn, and committed ungodliness against his Lord's command. What, and do you take him and his seed to be your friends, apart from Me, and they an enemy to you? How evil is that exchange for the evildoers!? Surah 18:50
?Hast thou not regarded those who have taken for friends a people against whom God is wrathful? They belong neither to you nor to them; and they swear upon falsehood, and that wittingly.? Surah 58:14
?O believers, take not My enemy and your enemy for friends, offering them love, though they have disbelieved in the truth that has come to you, expelling the Messenger and you because you believe in God your Lord. If you go forth to struggle in My way and seek My good pleasure, secretly loving them, yet I know very well what you conceal and what you publish; and whosoever of you does that, has gone astray from the right way.? Surah 60:1
?O believers, take not for friends a people against whom God is wrathful, and who have despaired of the world to come, even as the unbelievers have despaired of the inhabitants of the tombs.? Surah 60:13
Allah is clear how we are to treat peaceful disbelievers and aggressive disbelievers.
"God forbids you not, as regards those who have not fought you in religion's cause, nor expelled you from your habitations, that you should be kindly to them, and act justly towards them; surely God loves the just.
God only forbids you as to those who have fought you in religion's cause, and expelled you from your habitations, and have supported in your expulsion, that you should take them for friends. And whosoever takes them for friends, those -- they are the evildoers." Surah 60:8-9
This man is no friend of mine. His words and actions prove his intent. He desires to come here and attack the believers. He desires to drive us out with false-claims we are not Muslims and his satanic sect is. He desires to label the Muslims as 'kafir' so his follow-up actions are made appealing to him.
There are believers who desire to serve Allah, and are not afraid to fight against those who would attack us for our beliefs.
We are to embrace peace. But when the fight comes to us, we are not to be afraid to stand up for our beliefs.
"O believers, when you encounter the unbelievers marching to battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso turns his back that day to them, unless withdrawing to fight again or removing to join another host, he is laden with the burden of God's anger, and his refuge is Gehenna -- an evil homecoming!" Surah 8:15-16
We fight with words now so we will not require swords later, insha'Allah.
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.
LOL. Peace brother. I pray that faith in God one day makes you not only have enough courage to "fight" in his way, but also to recognise that love,patience, second chances, understanding the other persons point of view and replying evil with good is the way of believers. Stop using religion to hate. We have enough idiots doing just that.
If you think he has evil intent, why not invite him with respect and wisdom instead of using age old ancient do as done methodology. If the prophets had done that, no one would have listened to them.
anyways, the topic at hand is not regarding you, so that is the last ill talk about it.
salam
lol @ minute nit-picking on the word 'jeez'. Seriously, that word has become a common speech and no longer has religious connotation. Just like people screaming 'Allahu Akbar' in the street doesn't automatically make them muslims. It lies on the actions and intention.
If you're so concerned about setting up partners besides God through mere words (just for the sake of it) then ditch the Gregorian calendar because the naming of the months may be too idolatrous for you.
Peace out.
Quote from: rraza on May 26, 2011, 05:20:18 AM
LOL. Peace brother. I pray that faith in God one day makes you not only have enough courage to "fight" in his way, but also to recognise that love,patience, second chances, understanding the other persons point of view and replying evil with good is the way of believers.
?Argue not with the People of the Book except by what is best, save such of them as act unjustly. But say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him we submit.? Surah 29:46
What was it that I said to that man that was not good? Was he not given clear proof from the Quran? Was he not shown clearly how far astray he is by associating partners with our Creator?
"Call thou to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and good admonition, and dispute with them in the better way. Surely thy Lord knows very well those who have gone astray from His way, and He knows very well those who are guided. And if you chastise, chastise even as you have been chastised; and yet assuredly if you are patient, better it is for those patient." Surah 16:124-125
Was proof given from anything but the Quran? Is so, please show me what was not from the Quran.
Did I act in a manner not found in the Quran? If so, please show me where I have erred, if you speak truthfully.
"Prescribed for you is fighting, though it be hateful to you. Yet it may happen that you will hate a thing which is better for you; and it may happen that you will love a thing which is worse for you; God knows, and you know not." Surah 2:126
"Hast thou not regarded those to whom it was said, 'Restrain your hands, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms'? Then, as soon as fighting is prescribed for them, there is a party of them fearing the people as they would fear God, or with a greater fear, and they say, 'Our Lord, why hast thou prescribed fighting for us? Why not defer us to a near term?' Say: 'The enjoyment of this world is little; the world to come is better for him who fears God; you shall not be wronged a single date-thread.'" Surah 4:177
"Those who believe say, 'Why has a sura not been sent down?' Then, when a clear sura is sent down, and therein fighting is mentioned, thou seest those in whose hearts is sickness looking at thee as one who swoons of death; but better for them would be obedience, and words honourable. Then, when the matter is resolved, if they were true to God, it would be better for them." Surah 47:20-21
Why do you defend a disbeliever?
"Whoso forges falsehood against God after that, those are the evildoers." Surah 3:94
"and that He might verify the truth and prove untrue the untrue, though the sinners were averse to it." Surah 8:8
"And say: 'The truth has come, and falsehood has vanished away; surely falsehood is ever certain to vanish.'" Surah 17:81
"Nay, but We hurl the truth against falsehood and it prevails over it, and behold, falsehood vanishes away. Then woe to you for that you describe!" Surah 21:18
Quote from: BornAgain on May 26, 2011, 09:45:46 AM
lol @ minute nit-picking on the word 'jeez'. Seriously, that word has become a common speech and no longer has religious connotation.
It is proven it does. Can you prove it does not when it is just proven it has religious connotation?
Quote from: BornAgain on May 26, 2011, 09:45:46 AM
Just like people screaming 'Allahu Akbar' in the street doesn't automatically make them muslims. It lies on the actions and intention.
Why do you come to the defense of someone invoking the name of the Messiah, trying to show it isn't religious, '
BornAgain'?
I was a Baptist Christian practicing the pagan faith of Trinitarian Christianity before Allah guided me to the Truth. I reject everything taught by man and follow only what Allah revealed. Surah 69:40-43, 81:19
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
"Marvel not that I said unto thee,
Ye must be born again." John 3:7
"
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." I Peter 1:23
Words manifest what is in the heart, '
BornAgain'.
"Or did those in whose hearts is sickness think that God would not bring to light their rancour?
Did We will, We would show them to thee, then thou wouldst know them by their mark;
and thou shalt certainly know them in the twisting of their speech; and God knows your deeds." Surah 47:29-30
Is it an abbreviation of the pagan curse given to the Messiah (pbuh)? Yes or no?
Yes, it is. Proof is given, so why do you defend it?
"That is because God -- He is the Truth, and that they call upon apart from Him -- that is the false; and for that God is the All-high, the All-great." Surah 31:30
"Say: 'Is it other than God you bid me serve, you ignorant ones?'" Surah 39:64
Quote from: BornAgain on May 26, 2011, 09:45:46 AM
If you're so concerned about setting up partners besides God through mere words (just for the sake of it) then ditch the Gregorian calendar because the naming of the months may be too idolatrous for you.
You mean to tell me you haven't?
Do you have any idea what calendar is taught in the Quran?
Hint: Surah 18:25
"And they tarried in the Cave three hundred years, and to that they added nine more." Surah 18:25
Read the Quran, study it. Ask Allah to guide you. And do good deeds.
"But you took them for a laughing-stock, till they made you forget My remembrance, mocking at them." Surah 23:110
"O believers, let not any people scoff at another people who may be better than they; neither let women scoff at women who may be better than themselves. And find not fault with one another, neither revile one another by nicknames. An evil name is ungodliness after belief. And whoso repents not, those -- they are the evildoers." Surah 49:11
If you have something further to say to me, send it in a PM. You are both off-topic, and I will not be replying to either of you on this thread. Post your final rebuttal, if you please, then go your way or contact me in private.
To both of you: Bring your proof. Explanation is not proof.
I won't be asked what either of you do. I am only responsible for myself. :)
All power is due to Allah, Lord of all beings.
Peace.