Salaams,
This topic is covered by Layth but from a different point of view , but this is a brief on how i imagined it , by my research , But please keep one thing in mind a few words are mistranslated in the traditional.........
[ creation of man as the science says evolution, HERE , -I think,before the following ]
Malaikat = those that submit.
Naar=war (p582 QD)
Teena = A Soul ? of which the sense of shame is the natural quality. (Lanes 1906)
Salsal = To Utter (words) (lanes 1710)
Salsala = to make a clear sound (lanes 1710)
Jinn = warring agile nature.(who don't like discussions/salaat other peoples views - i think) (Qd)
Iblees = disobedient jinn.
Hama = honourable/protector/defender (lanes p652)
Samoomi = agile/rise or hasten to fight. (p1433)
Sanoon = actions/way of life. (Qd p274)
Faqa?aa = He twisted the sides of his mouth, or opened his mouth and was diffuse, in
Speech and uttered speech that had no meaning. (Lane?s p2427)
15:26
And indeed we created Insaan from, to utter of honourable actions/way of life.
15:27
And the jinn we created foretime from/with a warring agility.
15:28
And (remember)when said your lord to the malikaat/those who submit verily I (am) going to create a Bashar/one with a joyful continence/one who gives good tidings from (who) will speak (and) of honourable actions/way of life.
15:29
So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him of my soul/ruh then speaks to him be obedient.
Humans can be malaikaat, jinn or iblees they are different natures of man.
Malaikaat = all those humans who serve Allah but if any rebel then he/she is no longer one of the malaikaat but iblees.Humans are therefore somewhere between the Malaikaat and the iblees spectrum.
So there were the malaikat first and the jinn nature was created in some and they were all obedient to Allah but then Allah created the basher nature of man (being able to speak and with a very sociable/hospitable nature) and all the servants were ready to obey except Iblees of the jinn he rebelled .Hence Iblees came into existence when man gained the power to speak. Therefore I think the start of the rebelliousness dominates through our talkativeness side and that is the reason we are/should abstain from talking when we abstain/fast.
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29772.30
Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? - whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."
So it could be the good from talking is far more/weightier then the mischief and the shedding of blood.
So before man learnt to talk he didn?t do any mischief or shed blood!
Learning to talk-
2.33
He said: "O Adam! Tell them the names(Allah's attributes)." When he had told them, Allah said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"
Iblees is also thus born/created when talking /speaking was started.
2.34
And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.
Thus we are to abstain from talking when we do sinful things for a number of days.
I think it makes us bring out our malaika side of our nature then Iblees and gets us back on the track from the sin we have committed.
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2977And it was with the Bashar nature that men started to speak.
See/compare the following two ayah?s to see what are the malaikaat.
16:49
And to Allah they submit that (is) in the heavens and that in the earth OF THE MOVING CREATURES (ANIMALS) AND THE MALAIKAAT and they are not proud.
22:18
Do not you see that Allah they submit to him whoever in the heavens and whoever on the earth and the sun and the moon and the stars and the mountains and the trees AND THE ANIMALS AND MANY OF MANKIND and (there are) many is justified on whom the punishment and whomsoever disgraces Allah then (there is) not (for) him any to honour verily Allah does whatever He wills.
From these two ayat?s: MALAIKAAT = MANY OF MANKIND
JUDGEMENT DAY NOW FOLLOWS :The Bashar changes to its two original componants The Malaikaat and the Ruh , The malaikaat will stand for judgement before God.
19:92
not all who are in the heavens and the earth but comes (unto) the most Gracious as a slave.
70:4
(will) incline the angels and the spirit to him in Day(J) is determined/set up - armies united in conduct.
78.38
The Day that the Spirit and the Malaikaat/Angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (Allah) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right.
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2714&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2714&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Iblees>>Ba-La-Sa: Person of desperate character Ab-La-Sa: To be overcome with grief, be desperate, remain disheartened and gloomy, stupified, remain speechless. Iblees: Who despaired.
It seems a typical situation if one does not submit to the universal laws of everything.
Shaytaan>> Sha-Ta-Na: To be obstinate, perverse, become remote or far from the truth. shayatiin: The rebellious.
Interesting point to start from, I think if we analyse the verses in which these "names" appear we might find that these "names" reflect the situation i.e. rebellious when rebelion exists, or someone who does not submit to the system being desperate without hope refering to iblis.
Personally, these quite possibly don't reflect specific people or beings, but rather a person who exhibits these behaviour patterns. Hence, it would make sense when the Quran says that our rebellious side is with us from birth, and it is down to us to control it by submiting to the deen.
25:33 And they shall not bring to you any question/argument, but We have brought to you the truth and best the explanation.
75.19 Again on Us is the explaining of it.
I like to start out with these two ayats, just to put into people's mind that, Al-Qur'an, is not a book on Philosophical Relativism, that is, it decides the questions/arguements which are brought to it.
The Jinn are defined in various lexicons as hidden spirits, creatures of fire, satans and the such, however, they are also defined as powerful men and leaders, people of fiery temperament, and people who don't live by a codifid law from Allah. Now, all of these defintions can be found in the lexicons, however, in the context of Al-Qur'an, which of them squares, jibes with, appropriately juxtaposes with, makes sense, within the context of how Allah is using JINN in Al-Qur'an? Now, I consider the definition of "powerful men and leaders, people of fiery temperament, and people who don't live by a codifid law from Allah", to be the proper use of JINN, hence, for me, that is "remaining inside of Al-Qur'an/keeping with the context of Al-Qur'an". The following ayats appear to support my assertion on this.
The following ayats describe both Jinn and men as people [qawmana and rijalun].
18:15 Haolai qawmuna ittakhathoo min doonihi alihatan lawla yatoona AAalayhim bisultanin bayyinin faman athlamu mimmani iftara AAala Allahi kathiban
18:15 "These our people have taken for worship gods other than Him: why do they not bring forward an authority clear (and convincing) for what they do? Who doth more wrong than such as invent a falsehood against Allah.
46:30. Qaloo ya qawmana inna samiAAna kitaban onzila min baAAdi moosa musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi yahdee ila alhaqqi wa-ila tareeqin mustaqeemin
46:30. They said, "O our people! We have heard a Book revealed after Moses, confirming what came before it: it guides to the Truth and to a Straight Path.
72:1 Say: It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened. They said, 'We have really heard a wonderful Recital!
72:6 'True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the Jinns, but they increased them in folly.
72:6 Waannahu kana rijalun mina alinsi yaAAoothoona birijalin mina aljinni fazadoohum rahaqan
72:11. 'There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths.
24: 37 Rijalun la tulheehim tijaratun wala bayAAun AAan thikri Allahi waiqami alssalati waeetai alzzakati yakhafoona yawman tataqallabu feehi alquloobu waalabsaru
24:37 By
men whom neither traffic nor merchandise can divert from the Remembrance of Allah, nor from regular Prayer, nor from the practice of regular Charity: Their (only) fear is for the Day when hearts and eyes will be transformed (in a world wholly new),-
9:108 La taqum feehi abadan lamasjidun ossisa AAala alttaqwa min awwali yawmin ahaqqu an taqooma feehi feehi rijalun yuhibboona an yatatahharoo waAllahu yuhibbu almuttahhireena
9:108 Never stand thou forth therein. There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and Allah loveth those who make themselves pure.
46:31 Ya qawmana ajeeboo daAAiya Allahi waaminoo bihi yaghfir lakum min thunoobikum wayujirkum min AAathabin aleemin
46:31 O people of our nation, embrace the invitation of the one who is inviting towards All?h and bring Faith in him, All?h will forgive you your sins and will save you from painful torment?.
5:11 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo othkuroo niAAmata Allahi AAalaykum ith hamma qawmun an yabsutoo ilaykum aydiyahum fakaffa aydiyahum AAankum waittaqoo Allaha waAAala Allahi falyatawakkali almuminoona
5:11 O ye who believe! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you when certain men formed the design to stretch out their hands against you, but ((Allah)) held back their hands from you: so fear Allah. And on Allah let believers put (all) their trust.
Main Entry: OFFSPRING: the progeny of an animal or plant : 18:50
Main Entry: PROGENY : DESCENDANTS, CHILDREN b : offspring of animals or plants: a body of followers, disciples, or successors
Main Entry: CHILD/CHILDREN: an unborn or recently born person: a young person especially between infancy and youth b : a son or daughter of human parents b : DESCENDANT
61. Behold! We said to the angels: "Bow down unto Adam": They bowed down except Iblis: He said, "Shall I bow down to one whom Thou didst create from clay?"
17:62. He said: "Seest Thou? this is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few!"
17:63. ((Allah)) said: "Go thy way; if any of them follow thee, verily Hell will be the recompense of you (all)- an ample recompense.
17:64. "Lead to destruction those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them." But Satan promises them nothing but deceit.
23:55 Do they think that by what We aid them with of wealth and children[/u
34:35 And they say: We have more
wealth and children, and we shall not be punished.
34:37 And not your wealth nor your children, are the things which bring you near Us in station, but whoever believes and does good, these it is for whom is a double reward for what they do, and they shall be secure in the highest places.[/quote]
Now, from the above ayats we can determine that:
1. If the JINN, were made of fire, they would not be invisible, but highly visible and readly felt.
2. If the JINN, were made of fire, they would have to give off smoke, because fire in this world, where they lived/live, does not burn without giving off waste/smoke.
3. The JINN, like MEN, are describe as people, qawmana and rijalun.
4. If the JINN and MEN did not look alike, then how could MEN take refuge among the JINN?
5. If the JINN were not homo sapien sapiens, the how could they and MEN mutually share childen with each other?
6. The JINN, as with MEN, can choose to obey Allah or not.
But, what does smokeless fire mean? I think fire free of smoke is a metaphor for people who are given over to/ruled/dominated by their id drives [the id, is the source of our passions, drives, appetites, impulses, etc.].
Main Entry: ID: the one of the three divisions of the psyche in psychoanalytic theory that is completely unconscious and is the source of psychic energy derived from instinctual needs and drives --
25:43 Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?
Main Entry: PASSION: emotion <his ruling passion is greed> (2) plural : the emotions as distinguished from reason b : intense, driving, or overmastering feeling or conviction c : an outbreak of anger: means intense emotion compelling action: applies to an emotion that is deeply stirring or ungovernable .
Main Entry: FIRE: the phenomenon of combustion manifested in light, flame, and heat : burning passion : ARDOR (2) : liveliness of imagination : INSPIRATION.
For me, then, "fire free of smoke", is a metaphor for undisciplined human passion. Was Iblis not wroth with Allah and Adam? Did he not check/discipline himself emotionally?
Another important aspect in all of this ayat 2:185 and 17:95.
2:185 The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men...
17:95 Say: Had there been in the earth angels walking about as settlers, We would certainly have sent down to them from the heaven an angel as an messenger.
Both of these ayats make it clear, or appears to anyway that, Al-Quran and messengers were sent to homo sapien sapiens, hence, if the Jinn weren't homo sapien sapiens as well, then, the above ayats wouldn't make sense.
In addition:
2:185 The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a GUIDANCE to MEN?
51:56 And I have not created the JINN and the men except that they should serve Me.
Main Entry: SERVE: to comply with the commands or demands of.
Main Entry: SERVANT: one that serves others : one that performs duties about the person or home of a master or personal employer.
Allah, is served when His commands/laws/guidance are followed. Allah?s commands/laws/guidance are contained in His Qur?an. Hence, if Jinn are to serve Allah, where then, do they derive their guidance as to how to serve Allah, given the fact that, Al-Quran, was sent for the guidance of men?
Given that, Allah sent Al-Quran as guidance to men, in order that man may serve Him, then, the Jinn, likewise, must be human beings as well, because Al-Quran and its guidance wasn?t sent to any other creature other than man [ i.e. angels and the animals].
6:128 And on the day when He shall gather them all together: O assembly of Jinn! you took away a great part of mankind. And their friends from among the men shall say: Our Lord! some of us profited by others and we have reached our appointed term which Thou didst appoint for us. He shall say: The fire is your abode, to abide in it, except as Allah is pleased; surely your Lord is Wise, Knowing.
6:129 the iniquitous to befriend others on account of what they earned.
6:130 O assembly of jinn and men! did there not come to you Messengers from among you, relating to you My ayats and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours? They shall say: We bear witness against ourselves; and this world's life deceived them, and they shall bear witness against their own souls that they were unbelievers.
55:33 O assembly of the jinn and the men!
Main Entry: ASSEMBLY: a company of persons gathered for deliberation and legislation, worship, or entertainment.
If the Jinn, were other than human beings, then how could they and human beings assemble? Where, in the recorded history of human beings, do we find men assembling with beings other than other men?
QAUMUN: people, nation, group.
RIJALUN: man: male human being.
The Gentiles are the Non-Jews, a name given by the Hebrews to all those who had not received the law of Moses...Hebrew Goyim signified the nations, the surrounding nations, foreigners, as opposed to Israel. A Goy was a foreign nation; hence a Gentile."
http://www.latter-rain.com/Israel/gentile.htm
"The jinn mentioned in the Holy Quran are certainly not the genii of fairy tales or what people usually imagine them to be. This word indicates "something hidden from view", and is used in the Quran with several different meanings referring to people or beings who are remote and not seen. It is applied to leaders, as contrasted with the ordinary public, and to people of foreign lands. For instance, the Quran says:
"O assembly of jinn and men, did there not come to you messengers from among you. . ." (6:131).
As messengers from God only came to human beings, the jinn here are also humans, and the address "jinn and men" is to the leaders and the ordinary people. Similarly, the Quran twice mentions some jinn as accepting its teachings (46:29; 72:1). In the first case, a tribe of Jews is meant, and in the second some Christians are meant, being called jinn because of their remoteness".
From the above two passages, it is interesting how similar in both sound and meaning Jinn and Gentile [read--Jinntile] are. It appears then that, Jinn and men, while both being human beings, do represent different communities, relative, to whether or not they a Law from Allah. The Last Messenger, as spoken of in ayat 7:157, appears to have been of the Jinn himself:
7:157. Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel. He enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and prohibits for them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were on them. So those who believe in him and honour him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him ? these are the successful.
"Some have, however, argued that ummi and "unlettered" should not be taken to mean illiterate, but rather scriptureless. This would mean that when Muhammad is described as ummi, it means that he is not one of the Jews (a people "of the Book") or simply that he is not a member of a group which has yet received a revelation from God - at least, not until he received the Qur'an. Such a translation seems more likely to many because Muhammad is also described as having been a merchant, and it is unlikely that a completely illiterate person could have functioned as a merchant".
Another interesting article on the JINN:
species, and if the following ayats are translated correctly [I will be doing a word by word analysis of ayat 17:64], then how is the following possible?
17:64 And beguile whomsoever of them you can with your voice, and collect against them your forces riding and on foot, and share with them in wealth and children, and hold out promises to them; and the Shaitan makes not promises to them but to deceive:
34:12. And to Solomon (We made) the Wind (obedient): Its early morning (stride) was a month's (journey), and its evening (stride) was a month's (journey); and We made a Font of molten brass to flow for him; and there were Jinns that worked in front of him, by the leave of his Lord, and if any of them turned aside from our command, We made him taste of the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
34:13. They worked for him as he desired, (making) arches, images, basons as large as reservoirs, and (cooking) cauldrons fixed (in their places): "Work ye, sons of David, with thanks! but few of My servants are grateful!"
Now, have you seen or heard of any physiologically distinct male species, not to mention invisible sharing wealth and children with human beings? How can Jinn and men share in wealth and children if the Jinn are invisible, and physiologically different? If the Jinn were invisible, how then were they able to build the things described in ayat 34:13?
Also consider the following:
51:56 I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
How do Jinn and men serve Allah? They must submit/surrender to Gudiance--Al-Quran. There is no other Guidance that I'm aware of. Quran records...10:15 But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them, those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, Say: "Bring us a reading other than this, or change this," Say: "It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it: I follow naught but what is revealed unto me: if I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear the penalty of a Great Day (to come)."
6:130 "O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you messengers from amongst you, setting forth unto you My signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith.
The above ayat states that, messengers/rasul, came to both Jinn and men. Now, according to the following ayats, the messengers, were only human beings:
4:152 To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of the messengers, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.
We are told in the above ayat to make no distinction between any of the messengers. Well, if Jinn and men, physiologically speaking, are distinct from each other, and the Jinn had their own messengers, then that certainly would be a HUGE distinction between His messengers!
Now, the following ayats tell us that Allah's messengers were male human beings:
2:185 Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong)...
12:109 Nor did We send before thee messengers any but men--rijalun, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations. Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them? But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will ye not then understand?
16:43 And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men--rijalun, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
17:95 Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for a messenger
22:75 Allah chooses messengers from angels and from men--annasi for Allah is He Who hears and sees (all things).
25:20 And the messengers whom We sent before thee were all (men) who ate food and walked through the streets: We have made some of you as a trial for others: will ye have patience? for Allah is One Who sees (all things).
Now, above ayat 22:75 makes clear that, Allah only uses angels and men as His Messengers [no ayat says Allah uses Jinn as messengers], hence, the Jinn could not have had their own kind messengers, [that is, if you believe that they are some physiologically different species/beings], showing that, ayat 6:130, cannot mean the Jinn had their own species specific messengers from among them. My understanding, based on the above ayats is that, homo sapien sapiens messengers were sent to other homo sapien sapiens some of whom are referred to as the--JINN.
Basically, then, it appears as if the argument distills down to the following two ayats. I conclude that, ayat 22:75 defines who the messengers were--homo sapien sapiens.
6:130 "O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you messengers from amongst you, setting forth unto you My signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith.
22:75 Allah chooses messengers from angels and from men--annasi for Allah is He Who hears and sees (all things).
If one believes that ayat 6:130 is stating that the Jinn, like men, had their own messengers, then it appears that that assertion would contradict ayat 22:75. Ayat 22:75 states that, Allah, chooses messengers from the angels and men and not anything else.
God Bless.
