Let's delve deep Rashad Khalifa's messenger claim... be honest

[good logic]

Peace jkhan.
Also brother.
How did the prophet get Qoran?
GOD says He controls every soul. During sleep the prohet s soul - not the body- was summoned to GOD s to receive Qoran all at once . the soul returned to his body- yes like in a dream- and Jebreel helped the release of it in stages to the brain as the prophet s life was enfolding/continuing.

RK s version of what happened to him can be a truth or a lie. That is up to the individual to accept or reject if they do not see any evidence.
For me, I weighed up all the facts that I could from Qoran. Then I gave RK the benefit of a doubt.. If he is lying It will be taken up by GOD and judged.

Since the message requires me to follow Qoran Alone , this is irrelevant. I do not follow RK the man or ways.
So what is the message to you?
Then keep following Qoran .
May the Lord guide us both.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan

How can dead prophets support any prophet/messenger after them in this life?
And how can you get different prophets to meet together in this life to take a covenant in this life when they lived in different eras?

The verse is talking about being witnesses on the day of judgement and to support him with this truth when GOD gathers all the souls.
Again GOD gathered all the humans before being sent to earth, how did that happen?
GOD gathers all the souls awaiting judgements to Him, the dead prophets are with them. GOD can gather the souls how He wishes and it was done in another dimension.

Your understanding needs to use context and other verses in Qoran to take care of the issues of contradictions and nonsense brother.

GOD talks about the past , the present and future in His revelations . Some things about our past before this life and our future after this life happened and will happen according to GOD s knowledge. That is why we need GOD s input and messengers to connect the narratives of GOD.
Your questions are arising from your mistranslations/misunderstanding of what GOD is saying.

Or one will take their own ego as god and sort the unseen by themselves or mix and match with only how they see/perceive this world.
Or why does GOD insist on sending revelations/inspirations through  human messengers?
GOD bless you.
Peace. 

Answer to your question No. 01 is my previous posts.. just read carefully.. The problem with you is that you took and assumed that all prophets were standing in front of Allah at the same time ..

And the second question all the human being pledged to Allah being sent to Earth.. Again wrong assumption .. I hope you refer children of Adam verse  7:172 .. Problem with many is they have taken Adam as a single person.. Nope.. if anyone happened to read my translations where Adam appear, I have never used as Adam.. Adam in Al Quran is First mankind. Allah created all the different types of mankind initially including men and women and they were ADAM .. So, in verse 7:172 Children of Adam means all their children born first up for them and from them Allah asked 'Am I not your Lord' and Allah never asked all the humans born on earth that question.. note: Don't ever assume that Allah reproduced children from brothers and sisters intercourse initially.. wrong assumptions..
So I don't need to change the topic to something else.. Still, you did not answer my question. No compelling though. And that's why I addressed all followers of RK..

[good logic]

Peace jkhan.

For information, check this story about the two verses, another view to add to your collection:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iaSY4BB-2Q

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.
Also brother.
How did the prophet get Qoran?
GOD says He controls every soul. During sleep the prohet s soul - not the body- was summoned to GOD s to receive Qoran all at once . the soul returned to his body- yes like in a dream- and Jebreel helped the release of it in stages to the brain as the prophet s life was enfolding/continuing.

That's even worse than calling RK as messenger.. You have so much assumptions..

Peace jkhan.
Also brother.

For me, I weighed up all the facts that I could from Qoran. Then I gave RK the benefit of a doubt.. If he is lying It will be taken up by GOD and judged.

Since the message requires me to follow Qoran Alone , this is irrelevant.

So hilarious your way of judgment.. All the facts from Quran? bring one fact bro..?
You can't escape so simply after accepting a man whose fancy theory propelled him to claim a messenger of Allah.. and you agree with him as if Allah commands in Al Quran you to accept him as a messenger ...
Nothing is irrelevant when one accepts a matter with intent. for that accountability is waiting to be responded.. be ready..
Just you can't escape by saying irrelevant.. cool you are..

[/quote]I do not follow RK the man or ways.
[/quote]
you follow his claim and cus of his theory, which is full of flaws, you accepted him as the messenger and incorporated that into verse 3:81.. Yeah you follow his message, not the message of Quran. so you did not understand 3:81 but you took his understanding of 3:81 and you believed in him. not only that, he claims in some other places where the messenger mentioned is him, and non other.. and you agree to that also.. don't say no..
You don't need to follow 'the person or his way' to claim following. Accepting what one prompted is enough.. one can say I don't follow satan or his way i don't even see him.. but accepting what satan prompt is enough and that's following satan..

Regarding your video reference.. I have watched enough videos for and against... not interested.. Quran is enough as guidance.

[shukri]

My counter-question is this:
Do you believe in the Qur'an before you believe in Allah — the One who allegedly revealed it?
That would be backwards.
You must first believe in the Divine, then you can evaluate what claims to be His communication. That's why Allah says:
" a guidance for the conscientized ones" (2:2),
and in other verses: "It guides those who have concurred" (17:9; 10:57).
So what does that mean?
It means faith in Allah precedes acceptance of the Qur'an. You don't prove the Qur'an first in order to believe in Allah — rather, you believe in Allah, and then accept His guidance. Therefore, faith in the Qur'an is like faith in Allah — both are based on reflection, sincerity, and reasoned trust, not mathematical proofs.
Faith is a calculated conviction — an evaluation, not blind acceptance.

Code-19 is for different types of people!
Not only for people who 100% believe in God but also for disbelievers i.e. hypocrites/agnostics/atheists!
See 74:31

74:30  Over it is nineteen.
74:31 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers,
(b) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(c) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(d) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(e) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

I myself believe in God and the Quran is a God's word because of verse 74:30-37!
Code 19 has proved to me that there is a supreme being out there because humans/jinns cannot produce the Quran!
That's the wisdom of code-19!

Glory be to God!

Thanks

[jkhan]

Code-19 is for different types of people!
Not only for people who 100% believe in God but also for disbelievers i.e. hypocrites/agnostics/atheists!
See 74:31

74:30  Over it is nineteen.
74:31 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers,
(b) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(c) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(d) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(e) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

I myself believe in God and the Quran is a God's word because of verse 74:30-37!
Code 19 has proved to me that there is a supreme being out there because humans/jinns cannot produce the Quran!
That's the wisdom of code-19!

Glory be to God!

Thanks

Code 19 for different types of people? Lol .. is that what 74:30-31..?

74:31 The Verse never stated that REJECTORS would BELIEVE in Allah or increase faith by the verse.. In case you believed in Allah by this verse, then you have never believed in Allah and never increased faith, but you have fallen trap to something else..you are blinded. you not believe in Allah but you believe in 19.. Yes, that something else is 19.. But the verse has no 19, and it all came to you from traditional translations that they failed to grasp what the chapter is talking about..

74:1 O you the scrutinizer.
74:2 Ratify, then avow.
74:3 By your Lord, then enforce.
74:4 And replenish you, then cleanse.
74:5 And the impurity, then forsake.
74:6 And do not solace overstating.
74:7 And for the sake of your Lord, then persevere.
74:8 So when it is inquired through the inquiry.
74:9 Then that is the time of a difficult day.
74:10 Upon the rejectors beyond relief.
74:11 Leave it to me by one that I shared exclusiveness.
74:12 And I had assigned for him continuous wealth.
74:13 And involving children.
74:14 And I had accustomed to him habituating.
74:15 Subsequently, he aspires that I expand.
74:16 Never, that he was to our explications, of assessment.
74:17 I will task him uphill.
74:18 Verily, he pondered and determined.
74:19 So, he had wrestled with how he determined.
74:20 Later, he had wrestled with how he determined.
74:21 Subsequently, he eased.
74:22 Later, he glowered and dismayed.
74:23 Subsequently, he retreated and arrogated.
74:24 Then he said that this is except a trail of sorcery.
74:25 That this is save sayings of the mortal.
74:26 I will let him suffer scorching.
74:27 And what had acquainted you with what scorching is?
74:28 Neither lasting nor leaving.
74:29 A steaming to the mortal.
74:30 At its prime (thisat) effect (ashara).
74:31 And not we assigned mates of the Hell except the earned ones/possessed ones(malika), and not We cited their allocation (iddathHum) except ttemptation for the ones who rejected; perhaps the ones who were rendered the ordainment convince, or the ones who professed enhance faith...."

Note: Ashab is never KEEPERs / GUARDIANs in Al Quran but Mates, or even you call it Companions. Thus Malaika are never Mates or companions of NAAR.. You want to put Malaika in hell as mates? and the root of MLK here is POSSESSED ones cus they earned that position to be as mates of Naar.. 74:31 And not we assigned mates (ashab) of the Hell except the earned ones (malika), ... how perfect..

[shukri]

74:31 The Verse never stated that REJECTORS would BELIEVE in Allah or increase faith by the verse.. In case you believed in Allah by this verse, then you have never believed in Allah and never increased faith, but you have fallen trap to something else..you are blinded. you not believe in Allah but you believe in 19.. Yes, that something else is 19.. But the verse has no 19, and it all came to you from traditional translations that they failed to grasp what the chapter is talking about..

You are wrong!
The rejectors/believers are in category (a) i.e. to disturb the disbelievers!

74:30  Over it is nineteen.
74:31 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers (kafirun/rejectors/atheists, etc),
(b) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(c) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(d) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(e) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

Before I believed in God, I was an atheist/agnostic
Then I came across to code-19 in the Quran (74:30-35) via Rashad Khalifa
AND became a muslim because this code give me certainty that God exist and the Quran was from Him

The objective (a) of code-19 i.e. to disturb the disbelievers happened to me
All praise be to God!

Note: Ashab is never KEEPERs / GUARDIANs in Al Quran but Mates, or even you call it Companions. Thus Malaika are never Mates or companions of NAAR.. You want to put Malaika in hell as mates? and the root of MLK here is POSSESSED ones cus they earned that position to be as mates of Naar.. 74:31 And not we assigned mates (ashab) of the Hell except the earned ones (malika), ... how perfect..

The "keyword" for objective (a) to (e) in verse 74:31 is not "Ashab" but the word "عدتهم" i.e. their number/count!

Thanks.

[jkhan]

You are wrong!
The rejectors/believers are in category (a) i.e. to disturb the disbelievers!

74:30  Over it is nineteen.
74:31 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers (kafirun/rejectors/atheists, etc),
(b) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(c) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(d) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(e) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

Before I believed in God, I was an atheist/agnostic
Then I came across to code-19 in the Quran (74:30-35) via Rashad Khalifa
AND became a muslim because this code give me certainty that God exist and the Quran was from Him

The objective (a) of code-19 i.e. to disturb the disbelievers happened to me
All praise be to God!

The "keyword" for objective (a) to (e) in verse 74:31 is not "Ashab" but the word "عدتهم" i.e. their number/count!

Thanks.

There is no word I find 'DISTURB' in the verse.. indeed you are disturbed by something..

Iddath is not number in the context of the verse.. How can Iddath be a number while there is no number in it.. IddathHum is 'their Allocation' what allocation? Yes they being treated in hell with its prime effect and don't neglect the preceding verses.. their allocation of Hell is hefty with what is explained from the beginning of the chapter.. cus of this allocation of Hell with hefty explanations believers and those jews etc may fear the Lord and convince or increase faith..cus it is a warning and a real warning to happen in Hell.. save yourself from its prime effect..

[shukri]

There is no word I find 'DISTURB' in the verse.. indeed you are disturbed by something..

I used RK's translation.
Anyway, you can use 'trial فتنة' instead of 'disturb' if you wish.
But I think the meaning remains the same!

Iddath is not number in the context of the verse.. How can Iddath be a number while there is no number in it.. IddathHum is 'their Allocation' what allocation? Yes they being treated in hell with its prime effect and don't neglect the preceding verses.. their allocation of Hell is hefty with what is explained from the beginning of the chapter.. cus of this allocation of Hell with hefty explanations believers and those jews etc may fear the Lord and convince or increase faith..cus it is a warning and a real warning to happen in Hell.. save yourself from its prime effect..

Quran Corpus for word "عدتهم":

|وما - And not| جعلنا - We have made| أصحاب - keepers| النار - (of) the Fire| إلا - except| ملائكة - Angels.| وما - And not| جعلنا - We have made| عدتهم - their number| إلا - except| فتنة - (as) a trial| للذين - for those who| كفروا - disbelieve -| ليستيقن - that may be certain| الذين - those who| أوتوا - were given| الكتاب - the Scripture| ويزداد - and may increase| الذين - those who| آمنوا - believe| إيمانا - (in) faith,| ولا - and not| يرتاب - may doubt| الذين - those who| أوتوا - were given| الكتاب - the Scripture| والمؤمنون - and the believers,| وليقول - and that may say| الذين - those| في - in| قلوبهم - their hearts| مرض - (is) a disease| والكافرون - and the disbelievers| ماذا - "What| أراد - (does) intend| الله - Allah| بهذا - by this| مثلا - example?"| كذلك - Thus| يضل - does let go astray| الله - Allah| من - whom| يشاء - He wills| ويهدي - and guides| من - whom| يشاء - He wills.| وما - And none| يعلم - knows| جنود - (the) hosts| ربك - (of) your Lord| إلا - except| هو - Him.| وما - And not| هي - it| إلا - (is) but| ذكرى - a reminder| للبشر - to (the) human beings.|

Thank you.

[jkhan]

I used RK's translation.
Anyway, you can use 'trial فتنة' instead of 'disturb' if you wish.
But I think the meaning remains the same!

O Shukri Shukri.. Disturb and Temptation are in no way the same.. You are indeed disturbed.. Try to insert into ChatGPT, perhaps it would give you a good analysis.. lol

74:31 RK translation '... and to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?..

Read carefully RK or any translations of the above specific segment of the verse.. Is it the real question those hypocrites and disbelievers do ask once RK revealed his numeric pattern and the plethora of numeric symmetries that are in videos and in many articles? Is that what they ask 'What did God mean by this allegory?' lol.. no one asks this question.. They all know what is numeric pattern is, and some accept them (like you) and some reject, and no one asks what Allah stated in the verse as 'What did God mean by this allegory'..
Bro.. Shukri, it is not an allegory once RK revealed his theory.. Before RK revealed his theory on this, no one possibly even brought any numeric pattern tbh.. So why would they ask 'What did God mean by this allegory?'... when did these disbelievers consider RK theories as allegory?

Hmm.. The exact truth is ... the entire story up to telling them in 74:31 are indeed 'Mazthal' or as they translated 'allegory' cus it is not happening actually now and it is to happen given that if the disbelievers continue to disbelieve .. So they are not in a position to grasp the allegory presented by Allah and are prompted to ask, 'What did Allah intend by this allegory?' as if they are not going to face this allegorical expression in reality. They had no clue.. but believer and others knew through the same verse thus they increase faith..

Does anyone ask when some numerical patterns are revealed by various researchers, 'what did Allah intend by this allegory?'... nope.. no one.. is it really an allegory when numerical patterns are unearthed? Come on, guys.. open your eyes.. why stick to something as if you are commanded by Allah and if not be punished? why put yourself into a shackle..

' What did Allah intend by this allegory?' is indeed a sardonic question through the temptation aroused by the expressions of Allah, thus Allah mislead them..