Let's delve deep Rashad Khalifa's messenger claim... be honest

[jkhan]

Be honest in your replies and be wise in your replies, and be subject oriented pls...

So, RK was a messenger to have removed two verses from Al Quran, or do you find him more than that?

If people can insert two verses into Al Quran as allegedly claimed, then the big question is, can't people remove verses from Al Quran? If they have done so, like they inserted a couple of verses, how would one ever know what they removed from Al Quran? Would that be a mystery, or is what they removed not an issue? or such removal or additions are not at all possible once it was claimed as a written book readable?

[good logic]

Peace jkhan.
GOD is the overseer of Qoran.

GOD has told us in Qoran  that He  has the master tablet. i.e it makes no difference what people do , Qoran was mathematically composed from the offset.
Those who added the verses to revert back to idol worship had no idea about this. Qoran carried on being overseen by GOD to guide the sincere regardless.

When technology was available and we could check this, GOD guided  to the code and the checking.
"The future belongs to GOD, wait , GOD was waiting.."

This code confirms that nothing was taken out. Interlock confirms this. i.e Every letter, word, verse and surah is locked in except the two verses.
RK left you the challenge to his messenger ship open, take that challenge and prove that he was not GOD s messenger of the covenant to find the code and confirm only GOD could have authored Qoran, then to preach GOD Alone and Qoran is the only source of salvation/ GOD s deen..
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.
GOD is the overseer of Qoran.

GOD has told us in Qoran  that He  has the master tablet. i.e it makes no difference what people do , Qoran was mathematically composed from the offset.
Those who added the verses to revert back to idol worship had no idea about this. Qoran carried on being overseen by GOD to guide the sincere regardless.

When technology was available and we could check this, GOD guided  to the code and the checking.
"The future belongs to GOD, wait , GOD was waiting.."

This code confirms that nothing was taken out. Interlock confirms this. i.e Every letter, word, verse and surah is locked in except the two verses.
RK left you the challenge to his messenger ship open, take that challenge and prove that he was not GOD s messenger of the covenant to find the code and confirm only GOD could have authored Qoran, then to preach GOD Alone and Qoran is the only source of salvation/ GOD s deen..
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Let me explain the logic often used by supporters of Rashad Khalifa like brother, good logic, etc— something I once questioned myself, being unknowingly drawn to it due to the appeal of the number 19 pattern.
They ask:
"If the Qur'an isn't protected through the number 19, how can we be sure the Qur'an we have is genuine and from Allah?"
At first glance, this seems like a fair and logical question — one that can easily pull people toward the idea of mathematical proof. But here's my response:
"I don't mind if there's numerical symmetry in the Qur'an where it exists, and I don't mind if there isn't. Guidance does not come from numbers. Guidance comes from the words of Allah."
Now, let's return to the original question:
"How do we know the Qur'an is genuine if it's not backed by a numerical pattern?"
My counter-question is this:
Do you believe in the Qur'an before you believe in Allah — the One who allegedly revealed it?
That would be backwards.
You must first believe in the Divine, then you can evaluate what claims to be His communication. That's why Allah says:
" a guidance for the conscientized ones" (2:2),
and in other verses: "It guides those who have concurred" (17:9; 10:57).
So what does that mean?
It means faith in Allah precedes acceptance of the Qur'an. You don't prove the Qur'an first in order to believe in Allah — rather, you believe in Allah, and then accept His guidance. Therefore, faith in the Qur'an is like faith in Allah — both are based on reflection, sincerity, and reasoned trust, not mathematical proofs.
Faith is a calculated conviction — an evaluation, not blind acceptance.
And even if we had lived during the time of Prophet Muhammad or any prophet before him, believing in them (prophets) would still have been a matter of faith. Why? Because they claimed to be conveying a message from Allah — and you would accept that only if you already concurred in Allah/The Divine. Concurring in the Divine should come first like the magicians once they realized what Musa performed was not magic, immediately, they said about the Divine and their concurrence in the Divine.. later the Divine communications..
So yes, the Qur'an we have today is accepted on faith — just as we accept the Divine on faith. The Qur'an claims to be from Allah. Since we believe in Allah, we trust in His communication.
You don't need to prove that Allah exists — that's the nature of faith.
So likewise, you don't need to prove the Qur'an is from Allah with numbers or codes. If the message makes sense, and aligns with Divine logic, then a rational and sincere mind will recognize it as guidance.
Smart people don't accept nonsense. They accept what makes sense.
And the Qur'an speaks directly to those who reflect — not to those who chase signs without insight.
So the obsession with whether the Qur'an we have is the exact same carbon copy of what the Prophet taught his companions is largely irrelevant. All followers of messengers accepted them based on what they brought — and they did so because they believed in the Divine, not because they demanded external "proofs."
You don't need evidence to prove that the Divine exists.
And you don't need evidence to prove that the Qur'an is His Word.
Both are matters of faith — but a faith grounded in sense, not superstition.

[good logic]

Peace jkhan.
Then take the challenge and prove that RK was not the messenger of the covenant.
Use Qoran like he did, and show everyone that RK was wrong and there is no backing in Qoran for his role.
We will look at it and respond to you. Or do you think some of us just believed RK without checking Qoran?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.
Then take the challenge and prove that RK was not the messenger of the covenant.
Use Qoran like he did, and show everyone that RK was wrong and there is no backing in Qoran for his role.
We will look at it and respond to you. Or do you think some of us just believed RK without checking Qoran?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Indeed, the red highlighted is the truth..

Hi,
I fully understand the difficult position you're in — defending a stance while challenging others to explain theirs. But the reality is this: falsehood cannot be truly defended. It may survive for a time, but it can't endure under honest scrutiny.
Let me make it clear — I'm not here to do what Rashad Khalifa did: cherry-pick numbers to create artificial symmetry. I'm not interested in showcasing only the patterns that fit, while ignoring everything that doesn't. That's exactly what many are now doing in reverse — using numbers to disprove RK's claims by highlighting patterns against him. But again, they also selectively use what favors them.
It's a never-ending numbers game — and ultimately, it proves nothing.
Let's return to the real question: Guidance.
Ask yourself honestly:
What did RK — as someone who claimed to be a messenger of Allah — actually contribute to humanity in terms of guidance? What did he deliver that helped us understand the Divine message better? If we're being honest — nothing. He was just another fallible translator, whose interpretations were heavily colored by personal bias.
Now, I challenge you (and myself) to seriously reflect on Surah 3:81.
In that verse, many prophets are involved in a covenant with Allah. Each of them had their own scripture. But only one Rasul is singled out to come after them — not as one of them — but as someone they are all commanded to support and believe in. Why? Because he confirms what they already had — the Kitab and the Hikmah.
You can interpret this how you like. But at the very least, grasp the weight of that commitment: all the prophets were made to pledge support and belief in this singular Rasul. That's not trivial.
Now apply this to RK.
If — in your view — RK is that human Rasul mentioned in 3:81, then you must answer:
What did he do with regard to the Kitab and the Hikmah that required all the prophets to support and believe in him?
What did he confirm? What did he restore? What Divine responsibility did he fulfill that would justify being mentioned in such a covenant?
Because if all he did was remove two verses from Al Quran alone and introduce a number pattern that not even his own supporters can use consistently — then that's not a messenger of Allah. That's a man with a theory, not a Divinely sent confirmer.
All he did is removing two verses from Al Quran alone when it was not tallying his number pattern.. is that the verse 3:81 obviously speak? Then 3:82 cannot be taken out of the context... let me share my translation for readers and you bro GL use RK translation and reflect...

3:81 Moreover, when the Divine obtained the covenant of the illuminated ones, 'As for what I have rendered you of ordainment and wisdom—later, effected to you a confirming dispatcher, as for what was with you, so that you would have concurred by it, thus in order you could have defended it.' He stated, 'Have you relieved yourselves, and have you taken yourselves, according to such of that, of my task?' They stated, 'We have relieved.' He stated, 'Then, testify you while I am along with you, among the testified ones.'
3:82 So, whoever constricted, after that, then such are those, they are the apostate ones.

It is well and truly obvious that Rasul/Dispatcher mentioned in the verse is not human but a Malak Rasul who always confirmed every Prophet's Kitab (ordainment) and Hikma (judgment) that was revealed to them periodically, but once completed. And this Malak Rasul cannot be the same Rasul who used to deliver the revelations to Prophets, thus while confirmation process is on, these prophets were commanded in a covenant to concur in the Rasul in order to defend what they have.. This covenant is not necessary to have taken all prophets at a time. Nuh covenant on his life time and the Malak Rasul confirmed, Ibrahim so on and Mohamed in his life time.. Thus Allah worded in one verse.. The covenant never took place keeping all prophets ... it was individual covenant for each prophet.. carefully consider.. for instance .. If the Boss said to his Secretary to take acceptance signature of all employees on certain matter. She took it.. When the Boss asked 'did you take the acceptance signatures, she said yes' ... Does she need to take all employees acceptance signature in a class room at a one point of time? No.. She could have done in span of time like within one month whenever she finds each individual..
Yes Allah took the covenant individually but worded He took the covenant from prophets very correctly..

You can only confirm by placing all verses in order as a readable book. Yes, and this Malak Rasul is the one who placed the entire Al Quran in order from its periodical revelations to a book readable in order.. Definitely Recipient human Rasul needs to support and defend in that case.

[good logic]

Peace jkhan.

That is your personal opinion of the verse. Many have different takes on it as well.

For me, the context from the Qoran is key. All witnesses role is for His judgement . No one will have any doubt or issue at GOD s. Everything done by GOD is just and evidenced by His witnesses.

3:81 makes sense to me with this take, quote:

God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
وَإِذ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ ميثٰقَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ لَما ءاتَيتُكُم مِن كِتٰبٍ وَحِكمَةٍ ثُمَّ جاءَكُم رَسولٌ مُصَدِّقٌ لِما مَعَكُم لَتُؤمِنُنَّ بِهِ وَلَتَنصُرُنَّهُ قالَ ءَأَقرَرتُم وَأَخَذتُم عَلىٰ ذٰلِكُم إِصرى قالوا أَقرَرنا قالَ فَاشهَدوا وَأَنا۠ مَعَكُم مِنَ الشّٰهِدينَ

This explains why with the context  here also:
Are they seeking other than God's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?
أَفَغَيرَ دينِ اللَّهِ يَبغونَ وَلَهُ أَسلَمَ مَن فِى السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ طَوعًا وَكَرهًا وَإِلَيهِ يُرجَعونَ
Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."
قُل ءامَنّا بِاللَّهِ وَما أُنزِلَ عَلَينا وَما أُنزِلَ عَلىٰ إِبرٰهيمَ وَإِسمٰعيلَ وَإِسحٰقَ وَيَعقوبَ وَالأَسباطِ وَما أوتِىَ موسىٰ وَعيسىٰ وَالنَّبِيّونَ مِن رَبِّهِم لا نُفَرِّقُ بَينَ أَحَدٍ مِنهُم وَنَحنُ لَهُ مُسلِمونَ
Anyone who accepts other than Islam/ Submission as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers.
وَمَن يَبتَغِ غَيرَ الإِسلٰمِ دينًا فَلَن يُقبَلَ مِنهُ وَهُوَ فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ مِنَ الخٰسِرينَ

i.e This Rasul came to preach ,the same religion from all the other Rasuls. GOD Alone and His revelation Alone are the source of His deen . One religion through all the ages "Islam to GOD Alone".This unifies all people of all different religion into one community with one religion.

And the covenant is repeated/confirmed here:33:7-8

Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you (Who is you?), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.*
وَإِذ أَخَذنا مِنَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ ميثٰقَهُم وَمِنكَ وَمِن نوحٍ وَإِبرٰهيمَ وَموسىٰ وَعيسَى ابنِ مَريَمَ وَأَخَذنا مِنهُم ميثٰقًا غَليظًا
Subsequently, He will surely question the truthful about their truthfulness, and has prepared for the disbelievers a painful retribution.
لِيَسـَٔلَ الصّٰدِقينَ عَن صِدقِهِم وَأَعَدَّ لِلكٰفِرينَ عَذابًا أَليمًا

Please ponder this verse as well:
3:86
Why should God guide people who disbelieved after believing, and after witnessing that the messenger is truth, and after solid proofs* have been given to them? God does not guide the wicked.
كَيفَ يَهدِى اللَّهُ قَومًا كَفَروا بَعدَ إيمٰنِهِم وَشَهِدوا أَنَّ الرَّسولَ حَقٌّ وَجاءَهُمُ البَيِّنٰتُ وَاللَّهُ لا يَهدِى القَومَ الظّٰلِمينَ
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.

That is your personal opinion of the verse. Many have different takes on it as well.

For me, the context from the Qoran is key. All witnesses role is for His judgement . No one will have any doubt or issue at GOD s. Everything done by GOD is just and evidenced by His witnesses.

3:81 makes sense to me with this take, quote:

God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
وَإِذ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ ميثٰقَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ لَما ءاتَيتُكُم مِن كِتٰبٍ وَحِكمَةٍ ثُمَّ جاءَكُم رَسولٌ مُصَدِّقٌ لِما مَعَكُم لَتُؤمِنُنَّ بِهِ وَلَتَنصُرُنَّهُ قالَ ءَأَقرَرتُم وَأَخَذتُم عَلىٰ ذٰلِكُم إِصرى قالوا أَقرَرنا قالَ فَاشهَدوا وَأَنا۠ مَعَكُم مِنَ الشّٰهِدينَ

This explains why with the context  here also:
Are they seeking other than God's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?
أَفَغَيرَ دينِ اللَّهِ يَبغونَ وَلَهُ أَسلَمَ مَن فِى السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ طَوعًا وَكَرهًا وَإِلَيهِ يُرجَعونَ
Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."
قُل ءامَنّا بِاللَّهِ وَما أُنزِلَ عَلَينا وَما أُنزِلَ عَلىٰ إِبرٰهيمَ وَإِسمٰعيلَ وَإِسحٰقَ وَيَعقوبَ وَالأَسباطِ وَما أوتِىَ موسىٰ وَعيسىٰ وَالنَّبِيّونَ مِن رَبِّهِم لا نُفَرِّقُ بَينَ أَحَدٍ مِنهُم وَنَحنُ لَهُ مُسلِمونَ
Anyone who accepts other than Islam/ Submission as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers.
وَمَن يَبتَغِ غَيرَ الإِسلٰمِ دينًا فَلَن يُقبَلَ مِنهُ وَهُوَ فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ مِنَ الخٰسِرينَ

i.e This Rasul came to preach ,the same religion from all the other Rasuls. GOD Alone and His revelation Alone are the source of His deen . One religion through all the ages "Islam to GOD Alone".This unifies all people of all different religion into one community with one religion.

And the covenant is repeated/confirmed here:33:7-8

Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you (Who is you?), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.*
وَإِذ أَخَذنا مِنَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ ميثٰقَهُم وَمِنكَ وَمِن نوحٍ وَإِبرٰهيمَ وَموسىٰ وَعيسَى ابنِ مَريَمَ وَأَخَذنا مِنهُم ميثٰقًا غَليظًا
Subsequently, He will surely question the truthful about their truthfulness, and has prepared for the disbelievers a painful retribution.
لِيَسـَٔلَ الصّٰدِقينَ عَن صِدقِهِم وَأَعَدَّ لِلكٰفِرينَ عَذابًا أَليمًا

Please ponder this verse as well:
3:86
Why should God guide people who disbelieved after believing, and after witnessing that the messenger is truth, and after solid proofs* have been given to them? God does not guide the wicked.
كَيفَ يَهدِى اللَّهُ قَومًا كَفَروا بَعدَ إيمٰنِهِم وَشَهِدوا أَنَّ الرَّسولَ حَقٌّ وَجاءَهُمُ البَيِّنٰتُ وَاللَّهُ لا يَهدِى القَومَ الظّٰلِمينَ
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Hi..
I asked you to be honest and you are not...
I asked a question and valid question and recommended you to use your messenger RK translation and explain, instead you state it is my personal opinion.. Be honest.
Answer..
Further.. In Al Quran verse 3:81 there is no . 'All' No. 'Existing' No 'Scriptures'.. but you have added.. pls be honest..
My question still remains.. pls answer..

[good logic]

Peace jkhan.
Qoran is confirming all the scriptures before it.
Rasul is preaching Qoran.
Your question stems from your own understanding.

For me existing scripture just means the remnant of what other religions still use.
Why would Qoran be needed if there was another fully preserved scripture?

Qoran tells you past religions broke their covenant to keep their scriptures  fully intact .
 
We have a different understanding brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Hey RK followers!
I'm speaking directly to you — and I'm hoping at least one honest person among you is still willing to think critically. So please, read this carefully.
Let's talk about Surah 3:81 — go ahead and use any translation you like. I don't care which one. You simply can't manipulate the clear, manifest meaning of this verse.
Let's walk through this together:
1.
Does 3:81 say all people must support and believe in the Rasul (as RK claimed himself to be)?
No — the verse explicitly says the Prophets are the ones commanded to support and believe in this Rasul.
2.
Did those Prophets support this Rasul? Well, we assume they did — because they wouldn't break a covenant with Allah.
But then the question becomes: How did they support Rashad Khalifa?
And what did that support involve?
The verse says their support is tied to Kitab and Hikmah (ordainment and judgment). Remember guys, kitab and hikma are not simple matters, just instantly confirm..
So, what did RK do with their Kitab and Hikmah?
Can numeric patterns be considered "Kitab and Hikmah"? You decide.
3.
If those prophets supported RK, when did that happen?
RK was born long after they died.
Are we supposed to believe that a living man received support from dead prophets? Aren't these too fancy for the Divine to do that, after all this hard work of revelations took place in tough conditions, and an alien human being confirmed it.. reflect..
Was this support given in a dream? A vision? Was it a spiritual journey to the heavens?
Sounds like another Isra-type fancy story — except now in the modern era.
4.
Let's play along. Suppose they did support RK (lol). RK himself claimed in one version of events that he met those prophets.
So... what exactly did he bring to the world, in connection with their Kitab and Hikmah?
Did he confirm or validate anything from Al-Torah, or any scripture other than the Qur'an? Quran confirms previous scripture, not the MESSENGER or a person or a numeric pattern.. Hang on... Al Quran is confirmed .. everything.. except two verses, and that too RK removed, not anyone else.
5.
No? He didn't touch a single verse of Torah or Injeel?
Then how is this in line with 3:81 — where the Rasul is to confirm what they (the prophets) had?
If confirming only the Qur'an was the goal, then why involve all the prophets in the covenant while Al Quran automatically confirms scriptures of Allah since it is the last, not the messengers?
In that case, wouldn't the Prophet Muhammad's covenant alone have sufficed? Cus no part to play for the rest of the prophets but still in the covenant to SUPPORT and BELIEVE..
6.
And really — is removing two verses from the Qur'an the full scope of "confirming" the Kitab and Hikmah given to generations of prophets?
Does that even sound remotely rational? So Allah intentionally allowed two verses to be included in the Quran, and for that long before took a mighty covenant with major prophets, in the end those prophets did nothing according to the covenant? Does Allah play?
7.
RK even said in his video that he didn't recognize most of the prophets he "met," except that one of them looked like Ibrahim.
So, you're telling me this alleged Rasul got the support of men he couldn't even recognize?
Sounds like a fancy dream — not a Divine mission.
8.
Now here's a key question:
Why does the verse include both "support" and "believe"? Why would dead prophets be commanded to "believe" in a future Rasul?
Let's suppose support makes sense — maybe through some Divine mechanism.
But belief?
Who was in need of validation — the prophets, or RK?
Clearly RK (the living soul) was in need of confirmation as a confirmation messenger. So why would they need to believe in him? Prophets already knew RK came all the way from the earth as a soul, and they need to believe it as if RK could have done on his own to reach the heaven.. lol
Think about it — it makes more sense if the Rasul was a Malak (Angel) Messenger, sent to the prophets while living on the earth.
In that case, the prophets would need to support and believe in the confirming Messenger in the Divine confirmation of their respective scriptures.
That's a meaningful covenant. That's logical.
But if RK is that Rasul — and if he supposedly went to heaven and got their support — then the word "belief in him" in the verse becomes completely redundant.

Did numeric patterns blind you from questioning these concerns in the first place, and is it hard now to take a U-turn?

[good logic]

Peace jkhan

How can dead prophets support any prophet/messenger after them in this life?
And how can you get different prophets to meet together in this life to take a covenant in this life when they lived in different eras?

The verse is talking about being witnesses on the day of judgement and to support him with this truth when GOD gathers all the souls.
Again GOD gathered all the humans before being sent to earth, how did that happen?
GOD gathers all the souls awaiting judgements to Him, the dead prophets are with them. GOD can gather the souls how He wishes and it was done in another dimension.

Your understanding needs to use context and other verses in Qoran to take care of the issues of contradictions and nonsense brother.

GOD talks about the past , the present and future in His revelations . Some things about our past before this life and our future after this life happened and will happen according to GOD s knowledge. That is why we need GOD s input and messengers to connect the narratives of GOD.
Your questions are arising from your mistranslations/misunderstanding of what GOD is saying.

Or one will take their own ego as god and sort the unseen by themselves or mix and match with only how they see/perceive this world.
Or why does GOD insist on sending revelations/inspirations through  human messengers?
GOD bless you.
Peace.