Prayer Times According to the Quran

[Fusion]

I appreciate the effort put into breaking down the prayer timings based on different verses, but I want to step back and ask a more fundamental question.....should we be looking at isolated verses to determine these matters, or do we need to consider their context? Because if we take verses out of context, then everyone will just pick whichever verses fit their preferred view.

Now, looking at 17:78-79, it comes right after a strong discussion about the Prophet facing opposition and being urged to stay firm. The earlier verses (17:73-77) make it clear that he was under pressure to compromise. Then, 17:78 tells him to follow a set program from morning till night and stay vigilant, ensuring he is prepared for challenges ahead. It seems to be more about structuring the day for strategic action rather than prescribing ritual prayers. The phrase "before the day dawns, set out your schedule in the light of the Quran" makes a lot of sense in this context.

Now, if we jump from 17:78 to 24:58, we are skipping an entire stretch of revelation. Chapter 24 is discussing social customs, privacy, and conduct inside homes, so even if it mentions "prayer," it is doing so in a different setting. Are we sure these two chapters are connected? Because if they are miles apart in subject matter, then should they be used to determine the structure of daily prayers?

Then there's the claim that 11:114 is "abrogated" by 17:78-79. But does the Quran itself ever say that God changes His own words? On the contrary, it says in 6:115 and 10:64 that God's words do not change. So if we start assuming one verse cancels out another, aren't we implying that God revised His own guidance like a human drafts and edits?

And this brings me to the core question....was the Quran revealed without any context, like a book lying on a rock waiting to be discovered? Or was it direct revelation over many years, addressing real situations faced by the Prophet and his community? If it was a progressive revelation, then it naturally has historical and social context.

If we ignore the context, then we open the door to endless cherry-picking, and everyone will come up with their own version of "prayer times," "laws," or even "beliefs." But if we respect the context, then we have to ask...was 17:78 even about ritual prayer, or was it a call to remain steadfast and structured in response to the Prophet's opponents?

That is the real question we should be asking!!! in my humble opinion.

[Wakas]

I know this is an endless debate in this forum...

It can appear like that but to my knowledge most long term forum members think it is twice daily or a minimum of twice daily, so there is not much variance among them.

Also there is this $$$ challenge:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
No-one has come up with any errors so far. It's only been 5 years... maybe they need more time.

[amin]

Theres a timing, but its only for our comfort, i dont think its so important, saying morning and evening and day and night is to highlight its importance. Only muslims worry about the inner details, every religion has prayers and theres no such strict adherences or not much worried about the uniformity all through out the world. Even Quran didnt give that.

17/78
Establish prayer at the decline of the sun  until the darkness of the night1 and  the Qur'ān  of dawn.2 Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed.

It highlights the important of prayer and reading, can be translated as,

Spend time to establish your adoration/prayer after your works are completed, until you sleep, and do the recitation(reading) at early morning time, the recitation at early morning is very helpful.

17/79
And from  the night, pray with it as additional  for you; it is expected that your Lord will resurrect you to a praised station.

If you have time, you can pray extra in the night without sleeping, that will help you improve & raise your level before God.


Also these prayer calls on those days will be like clocks of the present days, announcing specific times so people could know and plan their works and rest accordingly.

So 24/48 is not about prayer timing but about privacy and the times are taken as pointers.


Again 11/114
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.

Here its saying, "establish your adoration/prayers at morning and evening(before and after your works/day), and before sleeping, indeed good deeds do away with misdeeds, that is a reminder for those who remember."


17/80
And say, "My Lord, cause me to enter a sound entrance1 and to exit a sound exit2 and grant me from Yourself a supporting authority."

This again looks incorrect, its not referring any event, it could refer to the incoming day,
My lord make my day/work start and end better and you be always beside me an authority helping.

[good logic]

Peace All.

Do we all agree on a fixed definition of "error"?
Can error mean a slightest change,or how big can one go in the definition?

Qoran interpretations have been found to be full of errors -small medium and large, some to the extent of creating new religions- since its beginning and will carry on till its end.

Basically no one is immune from errors. The human definition always includes one who errs. There are no humans who are perfect. So basically
"I am more right, I do not err" is a trait of the human as well.

If we accept that we are only responsible for our own faculties and accountable for them , we may realise that
there will always be errors in our work/thoughts/reasoning...etc.This why Qoran talks about redemption for every individual and advises continuous repentance and correction in our life.

Who is claiming that they have worked out every meaning to all verses discussing "salat" or "the salat" or other subjects that have a connection to these two?

The best advice in Qoran for us is to say:"May GOD grant us more knowledge" :
تَعٰلَى اللَّهُ المَلِكُ الحَقُّ وَلا تَعجَل بِالقُرءانِ مِن قَبلِ أَن يُقضىٰ إِلَيكَ وَحيُهُ وَقُل رَبِّ زِدنى عِلمًا

Each study and come to their own conclusions and prepare to meet their Lord with whatever they choose and decided to do.But there is nothing wrong about studying and learning together ,like here, with respect and humbleness, at the end:

The record will be shown, and you will see the guilty fearful of its contents. They will say, "Woe to us. How come this book leaves nothing, small or large, without counting it?" They will find everything they had done brought forth. Your Lord is never unjust towards anyone.
وَوُضِعَ الكِتٰبُ فَتَرَى المُجرِمينَ مُشفِقينَ مِمّا فيهِ وَيَقولونَ يٰوَيلَتَنا مالِ هٰذَا الكِتٰبِ لا يُغادِرُ صَغيرَةً وَلا كَبيرَةً إِلّا أَحصىٰها وَوَجَدوا ما عَمِلوا حاضِرًا وَلا يَظلِمُ رَبُّكَ أَحَدًا

The best path clear to us ,without a doubt, is to study our Lord message/book and avoid other sources that contradict it-according to our own faculties/conclusion- with GOD s help seeking only His guidance.

We shall force ourself to be with those who are loyal to their Lord day and night, seeking Him alone.
 Never turn away from the straight path, Nor seeking the vanities of this world.
Nor shall we obey those who are oblivious to GOD s message; those who pursues their own desires, and whose priorities are confused.

What we can proclaim for sure is that "This is the truth from our Lord," then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve..

Thanks to all of you who are keeping up their study of the book to improve their souls and are sharing with us here and hopefully we can all take "the best from each other" according to what our faculties and knowledge can bare.

May the Lord guide us all.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[Iyyaka]

Peace Fusion,

I appreciate the effort put into breaking down the prayer timings based on different verses, but I want to step back and ask a more fundamental question.....should we be looking at isolated verses to determine these matters, or do we need to consider their context? Because if we take verses out of context, then everyone will just pick whichever verses fit their preferred view.

Yes you're right Fusion, quranic verses should not be read in isolation, and this is what I am working on to identify the textual units of the text and their correspondences with each other. However, you must use a proven methodology for this, otherwise you risk making mistakes. This is why I use rhetorical analysis, which proves to be a powerful tool for uncovering this structure of the Quranic text, and which has proven its worth.
But here I wanted to list all the verses that deal with ritual Prayer (the formal form of remembrance of God - to be combined, of course, with its non-formal form, which is to remember God as often as possible); in the absence, for now, of having completed the total rhetorical analysis of the text. This still gives an idea of the vocabulary used to designate these "ritualised prayer times". Some are clear whilst others (according to classical dictionaries) may "seem equivocal". In this case, perhaps we should use the advocated method of reading verses that "seem equivocal" in the light of those that are not equivocal [for this Quranic methodology cf. verse 3:7].

Now, looking at 17:78-79, it comes right after a strong discussion about the Prophet facing opposition and being urged to stay firm. The earlier verses (17:73-77) make it clear that he was under pressure to compromise. Then, 17:78 tells him to follow a set program from morning till night and stay vigilant, ensuring he is prepared for challenges ahead. It seems to be more about structuring the day for strategic action rather than prescribing ritual prayers. The phrase "before the day dawns, set out your schedule in the light of the Quran" makes a lot of sense in this context.

Interesting idea. But the only snag is that, in Arabic, as-Salât essentially means Prayer.

[Iyyaka]

Peace Wakas,

It can appear like that but to my knowledge most long term forum members think it is twice daily or a minimum of twice daily, so there is not much variance among them.
Also there is this $$$ challenge:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
No-one has come up with any errors so far. It's only been 5 years... maybe they need more time.

It is still necessary that the game is not rigged from the start; and that you are open to the arguments of others.
If these conditions are met, then we must first agree on the following definitions:

  1. The strict duration of day and night: The day goes from dawn to sunset (cf. my first post) and night from sunset to dawn.

  2. The plural in Arabic begins from three. Arabic language shows, besides singular, dual and plural (broken
      and regular), something that could be described as the fourth number: the plural of small number or plural of paucity (jamu l-qilla), thoroughly studied by Sibawayhi.

  3. The ritual prayer can be evoked by the word as-Salât or indirectly by the process of synecdoche (Glorify, prostrate, recitation, etc.).

So, if we agree with these 3 elements, then the Quran mentions at least 3 prayers (in Meccan or Medinan context) and not 2 as you indicate in your above comment by the expressions:
- (2:238) ḥāfiẓū/Guard strictly ʿalā/on l-ṣalawāti/the prayers,
- (6:92) wahum/an they ʿalā/over ṣalātihim/their prayers yuḥāfiẓūna/(are) guarding
- (23:9) wa-alladhīna/And those who hum/[they] ʿalā/over ṣalawātihim/their prayers yuḥāfiẓūna/they guard
- (70:34) wa-alladhīna/And those who hum/[they] ʿalā/over ṣalātihim/their prayer yuḥāfiẓūna/keep a guard.

Now, let's look among the earliest revealed verses for those that mention at least three prayer times. We first have the verse:
76:25 And remember the name of your Lord in the early morning/bukratan and at the end of the day/aseelan.
76:26 And from the night/mina al-layli prostrate to Him and glorify Him long.
=> 3 moments: beginning and end of day, and from night.

Now let's look at the following verses:
[50:39] Glorify by the praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting
[50:40] and from the night glorify him also and after the prostration.
=> 3 moments: beginning and end of day, and from night.

Then verse [20:130] allows us to understand that the "(at the) ends"/aṭrāfa (1) corresponds to the beginning and end of the day. The verse [11:114] removes also the ambiguity of the plural aṭrāfa used here, as both day and night can only have two edges-sides ! (by using the word tarafiya)

Finally, the verses:
[11:114] Perform the Prayer at the two edges-sides/ṭarafayi of the day, and at the hours of the night near the day/zulafan
=> 3 moments: beginning and end of day, and from night.
The term zulfa in Arabic means any hour approaching day or night. Here we have a plural, so it evokes the hours/times of night close to day, i.e. after sunset.

The problematic verse remains [17:78]. If we stick to these 3 prayer times, then the translation is as follows:
"Perform the Prayer at the setting of the sun/dulooki until the intensely darkness/ghasaqi of the night.
And the Recitation at dawn, for the Recitation at dawn is witnessed.
At night, keep vigil/tahajjad with it, an additional-supererogatory work/nâfilatan (2) for you."
=> 3 moments: beginning and end of day, and from night. + 1 vigil prayer [supererogatory prayer]

Nb :
- The form AAashiyyi which appears in [18:27-28], [40:55] and [6:52] is ambiguous because it means, according to Lane's Lexicon, "[The late part of the evening: or the evening: or the afternoon: i.e.] the last, or the latter, part of the day; (Mgh, Msb, K, TA;) as also ↓ عَشِيَّةٌ : (K, TA:) this is the meaning commonly known: ". In light of other expressions used by the Quran to designate prayer times, we shall choose the following definition: the last, or the latter, part of the day.

----
(1) aṭrāfa : (Lane's Lexicon) The extremity, or end, of anything; [as of a sword, and of a spear, and of a rope, and of the tongue, &c.;] [...]  and a side; a lateral, or an outward, or adjacent, part or portion; a region, district, quarter, or tract; [...] The fingers: and [when relating to the fingers] has no sing. unless this is used as a prefixed noun, as in the saying أَشَارَتْ بِطَرَفِ إِصْبَعِهَا[She made a sign with the end of her finger]
(2) nâfilatan : (Lane's Lexicon) What accedes to, or exceeds, the original.(T.)A voluntary gift, by way of alms, or as a good work:(T:)a gift:(Ḳ:) or a giftعَنْ يَدٍ: (M:)a deed beyond what is incumbent, or obligatory.(M, Ḳ.)

[Wakas]

In none of those plural salat verses does it mention it is referring to one day. This is your interpolation.

[Mazhar]

It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day




https://haqeeqat.pk/SalatTimings.htm

[centi50]

It can appear like that but to my knowledge most long term forum members think it is twice daily or a minimum of twice daily, so there is not much variance among them.

Also there is this $$$ challenge:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
No-one has come up with any errors so far. It's only been 5 years... maybe they need more time.

Wakas,

I agree on minimum of two times. Me myself I pray 3 times a day, Fajr mid day and ishaa

God bless yiu6

[Iyyaka]

Peace good logic,

Each study and come to their own conclusions and prepare to meet their Lord with whatever they choose and decided to do.But there is nothing wrong about studying and learning together ,like here, with respect and humbleness, at the end:

Wise observation. That is why I mentioned the ambiguity of verse [17:78] and particularly using the word dulūki.

BUT, on the other hand, at the very least, one must respect the rules of the Arabic classic language, or any other language for that matter. And to cite just one example, when verse [11:114] says: two + (wa) 1 = 3, then it's 3 and not two. One should not be deaf to clear discourse, nor twist the meaning that is fundamentally evident. This is, in fact, what traditional exegetes do by indicating that these times of the night include 2 prayers! Muhammad Asad, who translated very well the meaning of the beginning of this verse, couldn't help but mention the 5 prayers in his commentary !. Incidentally, for verse [11:114], it should be noted that the other authenticated recitation variant is zulufan (instead of zulaf in the Hafs version), with an equivalent meaning, but in the singular, which then removes any ambiguity. [The term zulfa in Arabic means any hour approaching day or night]


I also mentioned in my previous comment the ambiguity of the form ʿashiyi, which can designate several time periods; certainly all related to the decrease in luminosity.
Let's continue our effort of understanding, as you rightly mention in your comment.
This term is used three times in connection with two moments of Prayer, in opposition to the beginning of the day (i.e. dawn):

   1. [18:27-28]
   Recite what has been revealed to you from the Writing of your Lord. None can change His words. And you will
   find no refuge besides Him. Be patient with those who call upon their Lord in the early morning/ghadati (1) and
   aat the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi, seeking His Face.

   2. [40:55]
   Therefore endure patiently, for Allah's promise is true. Ask forgiveness for your sin and glorify your Lord
   by praise at the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi and at dawn/al-ibkari (2).

   3. [6:52]
   Do not drive away those who call upon their Lord in the early morning/ghadati (1) and at the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi.

And (coincidentally?), another term asali is used in place of the word "ʿashiyi" in 3 other passages, in connection with two moments of Prayer:

   1. [25:5]
   They said: "Tales of the ancients which he has had written down and which are dictated to him
   at dawn/bukratan (2) and at the end of the day/aseelan!"

   2. [7:204-206]
   When the Qur'an is recited, listen to it attentively and remain silent. Perhaps you will receive mercy.
   Remember your Lord within yourself, with humility and in fear, without raising your voice, early in the
   mornings/ghuduwwi (1) and at the end of the day/asali, and do not be among the heedless.
   Indeed, those who are near your Lord are not too proud to worship Him. They glorify Him and prostrate before
   Him.

   3. [24:36-37]
   In houses which Allah has permitted to be raised and wherein His Name is remembered. He is glorified therein
   early in the morning/ghuduwwi (1) and at the end of the day/asali. By men whom neither trade nor sale distracts from the
   remembrance of Allah.

In conclusion, one can observe that the words ʿashiyi and asali are used in opposition to time with the same words that designate the beginning of the morning (in red and blue below). These two words ʿashiyi and asali are thus, in this context of Prayer, interchangeable.

----------
(1) root ghayn dāl wāw (غ د و) : the first part of the day, the early part of the morning, meal at dawn
(2) root bā kāf rā (ب ك ر) : beginning of the day