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Hearts and minds.. Where do the thoughts start?

Started by good logic, November 04, 2024, 03:55:43 PM

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good logic

Peace All.
What have we discovered -Science-so far about the brain?
What about the heart-Science-?
We have had conversations about the role of both brain and hearts in this forum.
What does Qoran say about both?

For info or to discuss further:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKJBvFr0WQ8
GOD bless you all .
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Wakas

https://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part1
section 16

16)
fa idriboo fawqa al-aAAnaqi wa idriboo minhum kulla bananin = so strike above/over the necks, and strike from them every/each finger/extremity.
[8:12]

Some use "smite". Translators are divided when it comes to the issue of who is being addressed by this command, even though the verse itself clearly states who is being addressed at the start, and that is the angels/controllers. In terms of what is more likely, it should be noted that this verse is likely addressed to the controllers than to the believers, due to the Arabic construction (i.e. no obvious break in addressee throughout and the first "fa" refers to the controllers, thus the second "fa" most likely does also) and it is in the imperative mood, meaning it is a command to be followed. Thus, it is impractical and illogical to command all believers when in battle to strike above/over the necks and each/every finger from the enemy. Especially since there is no need for doing both! Therefore it more likely refers to the controllers, as we shall now examine:

When your Lord inspires* to the angels/controllers** "I am with you so keep firm those who believed. I shall cast terror into the hearts/minds*** of those who reject; so strike above/over the necks, and strike from them every/each finger/extremity." [8:12]

*imperfect tense, i.e. an action in the process of being done.
**angels is better translated as controllers, i.e. forces in control of certain functions/laws. There are some controllers we know about, e.g. those found in nature: F=ma, E=mc² etc. and some we do not know about.
 ***qalb is often used like the English word "heart", meaning the physical organ, but more often for the locus of feelings/intuitions etc.

The verse seems to imply then: God will instil/cast terror into the heart/minds of those who reject, and then nature's forces take their course, resulting in affecting anything above the neck, e.g. the throat/mind/thoughts/senses/breathing and limbs/fingers of the rejecters, i.e. likely causing impairment of their performance. Instilling a sense of terror/fear in someone often results in their mind/thoughts/senses being affected/paralysed, and often results in trembling/shaking, especially transferring to the hands, which would likely result in weak fighting skills (swordsmanship or accuracy of arrows) when in battle. It is also interesting to note that when someone is fearful or anxious/nervous, their throat often becomes dry and precipitates an involuntary gulp reaction, i.e. a manifestation of fear/anxiety. Physical manifestations of anxiety: trouble concentrating, feeling like your mind's gone blank, dizziness, shortness of breath, muscle tension, fatigue, headaches (source).

The above understanding may also help clarify the confusion some translators have about 8:17 on who really did the defeating and who really did the casting (Arabic: rama, root: Ra-Miim-Ya). As it likely refers to the use of "cast" (Arabic: olqee, root: Lam-Qaf-Ya) done by God in 8:12. Also see 33:26 for comparison. Interestingly, if we take "rama" to mean "throw or cast" as in arrows or pebbles in 8:17 as done by some translators, then obviously the believers did not strike above the necks and each finger, making this interpretation even less likely. As is common, there are conflicting accounts between the traditional tafsirs on 8:17 and what was thrown, e.g. Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi (arrow), and Tafsir al-Jalalayn (pebbles), and Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn 'Abbâs (dust). See M.Asad's note on 8:17 which mentions several possible explanations.
Interestingly, some traditional interpretations take 8:12 to mean the "angels" literally struck off the necks in battle (but neglect to mention the fingers!), but if this was the case, then there would be little need for 8:17 to re-affirm who really did the defeating, i.e. God, as it would be rather obvious. To resolve this problem, some say just as the believers were to strike the necks with their swords the heads of the enemy would fall off, and this was the angels at work! It is a fanciful explanation, but again, they neglect to mention the fingers, or the logic of this application. Thus, the division amongst translators as to whom the command refers is likely related to their misunderstanding of DRB, hence their awkward explanations.

To conclude, 8:12 is addressed to the controllers, and DRB does not mean a literal/physical "strike" e.g. by sword, as is commonly understood, unless taken metaphorically. Thus, may be better rendered as "put forth" or "put into commotion" in these two occurrences.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

good logic

Peace Wakas.
Thanks for your input.

Yes, there are many instances where the "Heart" in Qoran can be a metaphor or other than the actual human organ.

However, do we/does Science understand everything about the roles of the brain and heart and the control of the mind/thoughts?

For example " Fa Innaha La Tahma Al Absar Wa Lakin Tahma Al Gulub Allati Fi Al Suddur"
"It is not the eyes that go blind but the hearts inside the chest"...etc.
What can the human heart do as its functions? DO we know everything/does Science ?

It seems that Science is still correcting many theories and improving its searches about many things that have been understood wrong so far.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Marwan-Aed

Science is nothing but falsehood, the brain is nothing does nothing produces nothing.

Science changes from time to time. The Quran is permanent, only the permanent is True, science can never and will never be an authority over the Quran, the Quran is the Absolute Authority over science, if science says x is y and the Quran says no x is b then x is b, since the Quran is Truth, since the Quran is from God.

Brain, naturalism, physicalism, materialism, atheism, science... I spit on all those filthy lies and any kaffir trying to trick me with those atheist garbage falsehoods, since it's garbage, and any kaffir is a garbage for believing garbage over his Creator and moreover denying Him. Lunatic.

God is the Most Great.

good logic

Peace  Marwan-Aed.

May be for you and some of those who follow Qoran say Science is not true or consistent.
Science can be verified and checked. There are some facts that have solid evidence behind them.

In fact many proofs through Mathematics  and Physics laws have stood the test and Scientist are in total agreement with these proven facts.

And of course there are a lot of experimental theories and research in Science that is still ongoing.
The Science of the brain and heart functions are in that field. Research is still going on

As for what is a Kaffir and how one comes to know who is kaffir, this is a different subject altogether and has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Marwan-Aed

Quote from: good logic on November 05, 2024, 03:42:24 PMPeace  Marwan-Aed.

May be for you and some of those who follow Qoran say Science is not true or consistent.
Science can be verified and checked. There are some facts that have solid evidence behind them.

In fact many proofs through Mathematics  and Physics laws have stood the test and Scientist are in total agreement with these proven facts.

And of course there are a lot of experimental theories and research in Science that is still ongoing.
The Science of the brain and heart functions are in that field. Research is still going on

As for what is a Kaffir and how one comes to know who is kaffir, this is a different subject altogether and has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Science studies the supposed objective world, this world I deny.

A kaffir is someone who denies and disbelieves in God and doesn't say I don't know if, but he says no doesn't exists.

Insanity is what comes out of their mouth.

May God punish them for their lies.

God is the Most Great, the Exalted, the day He shall command the angel Rafael to blow the trumpet, and you shall see the atheists running in utter terror with their eyes wide open.

good logic

Peace Marwan-Aed.
So A kaffir is only the one who says GOD does not exist?

The lesson of Qoran- Al Dhikr- is for those who have a heart- A mind- and is able to hear and witness.

Iblis believes in GOD ,what do you call those who pretend to believe and  try to hide their "Kufr"?
These :

Then there are those who say, "We believe in God and the Last Day," while they are not believers.
وَمِنَ النّاسِ مَن يَقولُ ءامَنّا بِاللَّهِ وَبِاليَومِ الـٔاخِرِ وَما هُم بِمُؤمِنينَ
In trying to deceive God and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving.
يُخٰدِعونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَما يَخدَعونَ إِلّا أَنفُسَهُم وَما يَشعُرونَ
In their hearts/ minds there is a disease. Consequently, God augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying.
فى قُلوبِهِم مَرَضٌ فَزادَهُمُ اللَّهُ مَرَضًا وَلَهُم عَذابٌ أَليمٌ بِما كانوا يَكذِبونَ
When they are told, "Do not commit evil," they say, "But we are righteous!"
وَإِذا قيلَ لَهُم لا تُفسِدوا فِى الأَرضِ قالوا إِنَّما نَحنُ مُصلِحونَ
In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive.
أَلا إِنَّهُم هُمُ المُفسِدونَ وَلٰكِن لا يَشعُرونَ

Belief should be complimented by following the straight path.
In fact you will find multitudes buy straying-Thinking it is guidance - instead of real guidance- which they call straying-. Well such trade will never prosper nor will they receive any guidance.

Let us not confound the truth with falsehood ,nor conceal the truth knowingly when studying the scripture.Let us leave the judgement of people - Kaffirs and believers- to GOD Alone.

So it is only others who can be kaffirs while we forget to double check ourselves? Yet we study GOD s scripture!Or should we try to understand what GOD is saying to us?
 Let us remember that we are accountable to the Lord and  should believe also that we are going to meet Him and to Him we will all ultimately return.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Marwan-Aed

Quote from: good logic on November 10, 2024, 03:03:06 PMPeace Marwan-Aed.
So A kaffir is only the one who says GOD does not exist?

The lesson of Qoran- Al Dhikr- is for those who have a heart- A mind- and is able to hear and witness.

Iblis believes in GOD ,what do you call those who pretend to believe and  try to hide their "Kufr"?
These :

Then there are those who say, "We believe in God and the Last Day," while they are not believers.
وَمِنَ النّاسِ مَن يَقولُ ءامَنّا بِاللَّهِ وَبِاليَومِ الـٔاخِرِ وَما هُم بِمُؤمِنينَ
In trying to deceive God and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving.
يُخٰدِعونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَما يَخدَعونَ إِلّا أَنفُسَهُم وَما يَشعُرونَ
In their hearts/ minds there is a disease. Consequently, God augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying.
فى قُلوبِهِم مَرَضٌ فَزادَهُمُ اللَّهُ مَرَضًا وَلَهُم عَذابٌ أَليمٌ بِما كانوا يَكذِبونَ
When they are told, "Do not commit evil," they say, "But we are righteous!"
وَإِذا قيلَ لَهُم لا تُفسِدوا فِى الأَرضِ قالوا إِنَّما نَحنُ مُصلِحونَ
In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive.
أَلا إِنَّهُم هُمُ المُفسِدونَ وَلٰكِن لا يَشعُرونَ

Belief should be complimented by following the straight path.
In fact you will find multitudes buy straying-Thinking it is guidance - instead of real guidance- which they call straying-. Well such trade will never prosper nor will they receive any guidance.

Let us not confound the truth with falsehood ,nor conceal the truth knowingly when studying the scripture.Let us leave the judgement of people - Kaffirs and believers- to GOD Alone.

So it is only others who can be kaffirs while we forget to double check ourselves? Yet we study GOD s scripture!Or should we try to understand what GOD is saying to us?
 Let us remember that we are accountable to the Lord and  should believe also that we are going to meet Him and to Him we will all ultimately return.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Salam Alaikum brother.

In the Quran, a kaffir means a disbeliever, rejecting faith after having known it. Iblees is not a kaffir since he believes in the existence of God, but that won't do him much. As for people who pretend to believe and hide their disbelief or conceal their true beliefs, they are referred to as Munafiqun, hypocrites.

As for their punishment, I speak not of my own words.

"And for those who disbelieved in their Lord is the punishment of Hell, and wretched is the destination. When they are thrown into it, they hear it roaring as it boils up."

''Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our signs – We will burn them in a Fire. Every time their skins are burned off, We will replace them with skins [that will feel] the punishment. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

Divine Justice, not cruelty. Disbelief is a rejection of the very purpose of existence: to worship and submit to God, the Creator.

And so on and so on and so on, takes some time to understand.

Divine Justice.