So is it twice a day or three times for prayer?

[Wakas]

you could have used chat gpt for that, here is what it said:

The Arabic word **زُلْفَى** (*zulfā*) is a **verbal noun** (مصدر) that means "nearness" or "closeness," especially in a spiritual or honorable sense (e.g., closeness to God). It's used in the Qur'an in that sense, often metaphorically.

In the Qur'an, **زُلَفًا** (*zulafan*) appears as a **plural**, usually referring to "times of closeness" (e.g., parts of the night close to the day, or nearness to Allah).

### Forms:

* **Singular**: زُلْفَى (*zulfā*)
* **Plural**: زُلَفًا (*zulafan*) — plural of **zulfā**, functioning as a **broken plural** (جمع تكسير)

### Dual form:

Arabic verbal nouns like *zulfā* generally do not have a dual form **in regular usage**, since verbal nouns (مصادر) often do not appear in dual. However, if you wanted to **formally construct** a dual for theoretical or poetic use, it would be:

> **زُلْفَيَانِ** (*zulfayān*) – nominative
> **زُلْفَيَيْنِ** (*zulfayayn*) – accusative/genitive

This is based on standard dual endings applied to feminine nouns ending in **-ā (ى)**.

### Notes:

* The word **zulfā** is feminine and ends in a **'alif maqṣūrah** (ى), which behaves like a long **ā**.
* It's rare for مصدر forms to be used in dual, so it's not commonly attested.
* In the Qur'an, only singular and plural appear, not dual.

Let me know if you want analysis of any of the verses where *zulfa* appears.

[shukri]

The Arabic word **زُلْفَى** (*zulfā*) is a **verbal noun** (مصدر) that means "nearness" or "closeness," especially in a spiritual or honorable sense (e.g., closeness to God). It's used in the Qur'an in that sense, often metaphorically.

In the Qur'an, **زُلَفًا** (*zulafan*) appears as a **plural**, usually referring to "times of closeness" (e.g., parts of the night close to the day, or nearness to Allah).

### Forms:

* **Singular**: زُلْفَى (*zulfā*)
* **Plural**: زُلَفًا (*zulafan*) — plural of **zulfā**, functioning as a **broken plural** (جمع تكسير)

Additional question, if you don't mind!
Based on linguistic aspects how many salats are involved in verse 11:114 according to your analysis?
Two or three!

Quote from your article:
11:114 ...uphold the salat at both/two edges of the daytime and the proximal parts* of the night...
*Arabic: "zulafan" is an Arabic plural meaning 3 or more.

Note:
I do not know arabic and you know that 

Thank you.

[Wakas]

Additional question, if you don't mind!
Based on linguistic aspects how many salats are involved in verse 11:114 according to your analysis?
Two or three!

The article is very clear, quote:

Whilst this verse can be interpreted in multiple ways there is only one way to interpret it that provides us with a time-range for each salat:
salat al fajr / salat (of) the dawn/morning
As its name suggests it is done around dawn (morning twilight). This can correctly be deemed one edge of the daytime and also involves a proximity of the night. Note that twilight is considered part of the night as per Quran.
To clarify: this timed-salat begins at morning twilight and ends when any part of the sun first appears above the horizon (i.e. end of morning twilight)
salat al isha / salat (of) the dusk/evening
As its name suggests it is done around dusk (evening twilight). This can correctly be deemed one edge of the daytime and also involves the proximities of the night. Note that twilight is considered part of the night as per Quran.
To clarify: this timed-salat begins at evening twilight and ends with dark night (i.e. end of evening twilight).
This satisfies the Arabic plural "zulafan" in 11:114 as these two salat time-ranges include morning twilight, evening twilight and a small part of dark night, i.e. 3 proximal parts of the night.

The article also references this article:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html


So, if one does not care about consistency, having a time-range, logic, the Arabic then yes they can interpret it in multiple different ways.

The challenge has been set in the article, quote:

The Challenge
If you find an error/flaw in the argument above you will be eligible for $250 USD per error/flaw or you may opt for it to be donated to a charity of your choosing. Proof of donation will be provided in that case. Please post any claimed flaws in this thread, thanks. Valid errors/flaws will be determined by the author.

It's been 5 years and nothing so far.

[shukri]

The article is very clear

I think for you the verse 11:114 just indicates two salat not three
AND chatGPT has given the wrong views!
Am I right!

ChatGPT's Critique in full:
The Arabic word "zulafan" is a plural that can mean "at or near" or "close to," but it does not explicitly specify "three or more" times. Classical Arabic lexicons often interpret "zulafan" as "near" or "close to," which may include the beginning or end of a period, rather than discrete times.
Your interpretation that "zulafan" implies a minimum of three times (morning, evening, and a small part of the night) relies on a specific linguistic and contextual framework. Some scholars might see "zulafan" as indicating proximity rather than multiple distinct times.
Potential flaw: The assumption that "zulafan" necessarily indicates multiple distinct times may be overstated; it could be read as emphasizing the importance of prayers near or at the edges.

[shukri]

Additional question, if you don't mind!
Based on linguistic aspects how many salats are involved in verse 11:114 according to your analysis?
Two or three!

Quote from your article:
11:114 ...uphold the salat at both/two edges of the daytime and the proximal parts* of the night...
*Arabic: "zulafan" is an Arabic plural meaning 3 or more.

For me, I choose two instead of three

Why?

Because the answer is lies on the analysis of the first two phrases of the verse 11:114
11:114 Observe the Salat at the two ends of the day ; and 'zulfan min al-layl' (during the near parts of the night / proximal parts of the night) ....
(َأَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ إِنَّ الحَسَنٰتِ يُذهِبنَ السَّيِّـٔاتِ ذٰلِكَ ذِكرىٰ لِلذّٰكِرينَ)

The Analysis:
The first phrase i.e. أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ (Observe the salat at the two ends of the day)
We see the first phrase speaks about salat at two ends of the day viz. salat fajr (morning twilight) and salat isha (evening twilight)
Crystal clear and indisputable, right!

*Note:
The name for salat isha in the Quran is equivalent to salat maghrib in sunni practice
i.e. the timeframe for the salat isha is equivalent to salat maghrib for sunni.

The second phrase i.e. وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ (and 'zulfan min al-layl').
This is the one which invites various interpretations

(1) Some say it speaks about three salat i.e. two salat at the ends of the day plus one additional salat during the night, a total of three salat.
(2) The other says this phrase links to the description of the subject of the first phrase which is the two salat rather than referring to an additional third salat.
In other words the first phrase and the second phrase link together to define the exact times of the two salat in the first phrase.

How to solve the dispute?

Since chatGPT i see lean towards second opinion 😀
I make mathematical analysis on verse 11:114 to find the solution, if possible

*Note:
Mathematical analysis is done in the same way given on #Reply 11

We take the dispute phrase i.e. وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ, as our study case
(َأَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ إِنَّ الحَسَنٰتِ يُذهِبنَ السَّيِّـٔاتِ ذٰلِكَ ذِكرىٰ لِلذّٰكِرينَ)

وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ (wa zulfan minal lail) ... gv = 285
AND 285 --> 2+8+5 = 15

AND then we take the twilights' time of two intrinsic salats in phrase "أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ" viz. al-fajr and al-isha

الفَجرِ (al-fajr) ... gv = 314
العِشاءِ (al-isha) ... gv = 403

Then we add-up both gvs:
314  + 403 = 717
AND 717 --> 7+1+7 = 15

(Indication: Since the add-up gv for words "al-fajr & al-isha i.e. the two twilights' time" and the gv for phrase "وَزُلَفًا مِنَ الَّيلِ" give the same digit of 15, we can conclude that the phrase "wa zulfan minal lail" is the description of  twilights' time of "two salat at the ends of the day" mentioned in the first phrase i.e. "أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ النَّهارِ" and NOT meant to describe the emerging of third salat)

Just my take!
AND for further elaboration, please see this link:
https://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/number_of_salat_(P1200).html (THIRD: Word Definitions)

Thank you.
So long!

[Wakas]

You have to understand the limitations of chat gpt.

chat gpt uses the accessible info out that's there, especially the mainstream info.

For example, when i asked it it clearly states "zulafan" is a plural. In Arabic a plural is 3 or more. It's not like English which could mean 2 or more.

If you read the linked to article that I showed you it points out the flaws of the other interpretations.

e.g. in brief:

Those who take the plural zulafan to mean one salat. Obvious problem.

Those who take the plural zulafan to mean other salat (not linked to the two/both edges of the day)
The obvious problem here is that the word zulafan means nearness/proximity, well the obvious question to ask is near/proximal to what? The verse tells us! There is no need for any maths.



Another interesting question to ponder over is, is it actually possible to interpret it any other way IF one has to respect consistency, logic and the Arabic?
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
I haven't found an alternative.

[jkhan]

Additional question, if you don't mind!
Based on linguistic aspects how many salats are involved in verse 11:114 according to your analysis?
Two or three!

Quote from your article:
11:114 ...uphold the salat at both/two edges of the daytime and the proximal parts* of the night...
*Arabic: "zulafan" is an Arabic plural meaning 3 or more.

Note:
I do not know arabic and you know that 

Thank you.

Dear Shukri...

In Quranic tone, there is no ritual PRAYER.. It's all a misconception. 11:114 does not talk about the timing of PRAYER. If possible, carefully read with any translation of verses 11:112-113 and get the grip of them, then read 11:114. Of course not any translation but what I understood of the verse.. here you are.. 11:114 But, undertake the state of interactions of the counter-proceedings, yet proximities through the anxieties. Verily, the state of equitability would be seizing the state of wickedness. Such is a consideration for the concentrated ones. ... It is a contextual verse if you are able to comprehend it.. It is very tough to you unless you seek guidance from Allah and step into it...

[shukri]

Dear Shukri...

In Quranic tone, there is no ritual PRAYER.. It's all a misconception. 11:114 does not talk about the timing of PRAYER. If possible, carefully read with any translation of verses 11:112-113 and get the grip of them, then read 11:114. Of course not any translation but what I understood of the verse.. here you are.. 11:114 But, undertake the state of interactions of the counter-proceedings, yet proximities through the anxieties. Verily, the state of equitability would be seizing the state of wickedness. Such is a consideration for the concentrated ones. ... It is a contextual verse if you are able to comprehend it.. It is very tough to you unless you seek guidance from Allah and step into it...

A new, fresh translation of verse 11:114, I suppose!
But I need some time to digest it for sure. 

Thanks for the posting, brother!
God bless you.

[jkhan]

A new, fresh translation of verse 11:114, I suppose!
But I need some time to digest it for sure. 

Thanks for the posting, brother!
God bless you.

In case you need to know about verses below.. here you are..

17:78 State of tenacities out of We already had dispatched before you from our dispatchers. Yet, you would not find a transference for Our state of tenacity.
17:78 Undertake the interactions to decline the defiance into the overlapping of the anxieties, while resolving the emergence. Indeed, resolving the emergence is being state of involvement. 
17:79 Yet, through the anxieties. So, you impact by its additions to you. Probably that your Lord revitalizes your stance, admirable.

Nothing to do with PRAYERS or timing.. all contextual ..

[jkhan]

Formerly I used to pray 5 times a day as Rashad Khalifa did
But now only 3 times a day

Since the Quran do not specify how to observe salat
I just do it without rakaat

1. Although i believe Rashad Khalifa was the God's messenger of the covenant (3:81)
But he reminded us to follow the Quran alone, not him per se!

Since, I have time till I step into chapter 05 translation after a month or so as the Divine caused, I just want to reply some of the concerns here..Look brother Shukri you are confused, neither here nor there.. but you are honest as it sounds..

Late Doctor Rashad Khalifa was never a Rasool of Allah. Don't knock the door of Hell while you prefer life to be pleasant.. Let whatever numerical pattern of the Quran or any book remain as they are.. Yes, your latest messenger RK, never told you to follow him, but he claimed he was a messenger and accept that verse 3:81 is him and it is a direct following. And you claim he is a messenger of Allah as per his claim, and it is nothing but you follow him though he told you not to follow him.. You should always follow what Allah told you by your own effort, and that's the way.. try your level best to understand 3:81, if not getting try to read my translation but don't depend yet reflect... It is not Rashad Khalifa in 3:81. I guarantee you that but you need to reflect.. Also chapter 74 has nothing to do with 19, still if you reflect only.. let me share my old translation of chapter 74

74:1 O you the scrutinizer.

74:2 Ratify, then avow.

74:3 By your Lord, then enforce.

74:4 And replenish you, then cleanse.

74:5 And the impurity, then forsake.

74:6 And do not solace overstating.

74:7 And for the sake of your Lord, then persevere.

74:8 So when it is inquired through the inquiry.

74:9 Then that is the time of a difficult day.

74:10 Upon the rejectors beyond relief.

74:11 Leave it to me by one that I shared exclusiveness.

74:12 And I had assigned for him continuous wealth.

74:13 And involving children.

74:14 And I had accustomed to him habituating.

74:15 Subsequently, he aspires that I expand.

74:16 Never, that he was to our explications, of assessment.

74:17 I will task him uphill.

74:18 Verily, he pondered and determined.

74:19 So, he had wrestled with how he determined.

74:20 Later, he had wrestled with how he determined.

74:21 Subsequently, he eased.

74:22 Later, he glowered and dismayed.

74:23 Subsequently, he retreated and arrogated.

74:24 Then he said that this is except a trail of sorcery.

74:25 That this is save sayings of the mortal.

74:26 I will let him suffer scorching.

74:27 And what had acquainted you with what scorching is?

74:28 Neither lasting nor leaving.

74:29 A steaming to the mortal.

74:30 At its prime (thisat) effect (ashara).

74:31 And not we assigned mates of the Hell except the earned ones/possessed ones(malika), and not We cited their allocation (iddathHum) except trial/temptation for the ones who rejected; perhaps the ones who were rendered the ordainment convince, or the ones who professed enhance faith...."

I know it is your life and you are accountable for whatever you do in life, but this is a forum and I share what I found to be true... But seek the truth from Allah and seek the guidance too.. I only share knowledge.. scrutinize it, and verify..

Remember .. if you have never read Al Quran, Allah won't punish you, I am absolutely sure of it, unless you never ascribed to Him while you remained an ethical person.. There is nothing more from the Quran than that.. But, after reading the Quran and if you happen to take such and such, then you are seriously accountable and subjected to questions..

You are bothered of chapter 9 missing bismillah.. who knows, that it is chapter 9 or continuation of chapter 8.. Allah never has promised that He would preserve a written Al Quran / The resolution for us in this era.. We are not such people who got the mercy of Allah to have revealed through a living Rasool and listening to Allah's words.. But we are merciful that we are living in a modern era where you can have knowledge to verify almost everything, and we are not living in a blind era.. Most of what Quran explains is well known to all societies now.. But Al Quran is a miraculous book through which you can get convinced towards our Lord... But it is not necessary that we read this book to near Allah.. It was a book for a people or community who were totally lost to preach A-Z... But in this book, many things are there other than ordainments, but as WISDOM and that's marvelous... For sure Allah did not preserve manually any of His books, neither Torah or Quran.. but something is still remaining with us.. We have no right to judge that Torah is wrong or Al Quran is wrong.. Just get the message from them.. The right path is inbuilt for civilized societies, when you follow, you will know it.. It means guidance of Allah has reached this modern era already, but they don't follow it... It is not from Quran we will be questioned and is impossible while the book is in Arabic and Allah questions us why not follow Al Quran.. no way.. Bro we are inbuilt and we are modern.. yes past nations were given extra mercy by Allah through Rasools.. They will get their compensation in either way for that.. But we are not exempted but we won't be questioned through Al Quran.. But read this book it is a mercy who comprehended it..