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So is it twice a day or three times for prayer?

Started by Ervin, October 01, 2024, 02:53:58 AM

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shukri

"Information Only"

I just want to respond to other link provided by Brother Wakas
http://submission.org/Where_can_we_find_Salah.html

In this link, "submission.org" said the salat's rakaat of 24434 was preserved by God and  mathematically coded by Code-19
But this claim i think has no merit because the sequence of 43244 will give the same result

The counter-argument can be seen in this link:
https://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/the_code_19_(P1203).html
It is very convincing I suppose, at least for me alone!

Note:
This is my last post in this thread
Just sharing my current views and  beliefs on the number of salat in the Quran
Sorry for any inconvenience, if any
Bye!
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: shukri on October 09, 2024, 10:32:22 AM"Information Only"

I just want to respond to other link provided by Brother Wakas
http://submission.org/Where_can_we_find_Salah.html

In this link, "submission.org" said the salat's rakaat of 24434 was preserved by God and  mathematically coded by Code-19
But this claim i think has no merit because the sequence of 43244 will give the same result

Five daily, with 17 rakaat, are taken from hadith and tradition.

Fajr (Dawn prayer): 2 rak'āt
Dhuhr (Midday prayer): 4 rak'āt
Asr (Afternoon prayer): 4 rak'āt
Maghrib (Evening prayer): 3 rak'āt
Isha (Night prayer): 4 rak'āt


Also, you forgot to mention the rest.
All digits add up to 17 and are multiples of 19.

11267 11438
11951 12293
12464 12635
13148 13319
13661 13832
14174 14345
14516 15371
15542 15713
16226 17252
17423 19133
21185 21356
21527 22382
22553 22724
23237 23921
24263 24434
25118 25631
26144 26315
27341 27512
29222 31274
31445 31616
32129 32471
32642 32813
33155 33326
34181 34352
34523 36233
38114 39311
41192 41363
41534 42218
42731 43244
43415 44441
44612 45125
46151 46322
51281 51452
51623 52136
53162 53333
55214 56411
58121 61541
61712 62225
63251 63422
65132 71117
72143 72314
73511 75221
82232 84113

The rest is all predictable flipping of digits by the infatuated.

Salaam

shukri

Hi Bajram,
If you are human and not a robot AI  :confused:

Tell us if you observe salat or not
Is salat a ritual practice as sunni/shia did
How many rakaat for each salat you perform
Are you satisfied with your salat!

Thank you!
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

shukri

Quote from: shukri on October 10, 2024, 01:14:06 AMHi Bajram,
If you are human and not a robot AI  :confused:

Tell us if you observe salat or not
Is salat a ritual practice as sunni/shia did
How many rakaat for each salat you perform
Are you satisfied with your salat!

Thank you!

Hi Bajram,
Sorry for the above posting
I did that because I feel like I am having a conversation with a robot, not a human!

But anyway, I hope you don't mind answering all the questions I put forward
At least I know who you are ... quranist, sunni, etc. and your stance about salat
:sun:

Thanks in advance!
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: shukri on October 10, 2024, 07:26:34 AMHi Bajram,
Sorry for the above posting
I did that because I feel like I am having a conversation with a robot, not a human!

But anyway, I hope you don't mind answering all the questions I put forward
At least I know who you are ... quranist, sunni, etc. and your stance about salat
:sun:

Thanks in advance!

I do salat about 50 times a day, and like Thomas Jefferson — "I am of a sect (robot) by myself, as far as I know."

Salaam

Wakas

peace shukri,
When using numerology one has to be careful they are being objective thus checking corroborating Quranic evidence such as linguistic, timing coherence, practicality, logic etc is essential. Some of the points mentioned in the article have nothing to do with linguistic issues for example, but I guess it is much easier to paint them all under linguistic and ignore them:

https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

e.g.
20) B, C, D.
It should be noted that according to the 5 salat daily view, a salat called "Dhuhr" and a salat called "Asr" are claimed to be due from noon onwards, however according to 24:58 it was common practice for believers within their households to discard their clothes at/from noon (likely due to the heat*), and this period of undress is described as "private parts/times" (3awrat) for us. During these private times others are asked to seek our permission in order to mingle with us. Thus, questions arise: when is salat meant to be offered in this private time of undress? Do believers uphold the alleged Dhuhr/Asr salat privately? Can they uphold them naked? Do they uphold Dhuhr, then undress, then re-dress and uphold Asr, then undress etc - is this what is being suggested?
It could be argued that we are meant to apply some sort of common sense, for example, when noon arrives, one would uphold both these salat immediately or soon after, then go to their homes (or if already in the home) and discard their garments, but unfortunately for such an explanation 24:58 states at/from noon. Perhaps some might accept this explanation. Of course, some advocates of 5 salat daily argue for the alleged "Dhuhr" and "Asr" time periods to extend well into the afternoon and even until start of sunset.
###


If you wish to base your practice on numerology primarily that is of course up to you.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

shukri

Salam Wakas

For your information:
I observe 3 salat per day i.e. fajr, Al-Wustha and Isha
And the time is as follows ...
Fajr prayer starts when Fajr appear and ends at sunrise
Al-Wustha prayer begins when the sun starts to decline from its highest point in the sky which is at noon and ends at sunset.
Isha Prayer starts as soon as the sun has set and ends when all light has disappeared from the night sky.

Note:
The name for Isha prayer in the Quran is equivalent to maghrib prayer in sunni practice
i.e. the timeframe for the Isha prayer is equivalent to maghrib prayer for sunni

My comment on private time in verse 24:58
The time for the wustha prayer is quite long compared to the other two prayers
For example the time period is around 6 hours in my country
With this long flexible time, especially at noon time, people can do anything they like including discarding their clothes, etc.
And that's why I think the Quran instructs us to get permission during noon time a.k.a. at relaxing time after morning work.
Moreover we should know that verse 24:58 just focused on private time NOT salat prayer itself
And the time for the middle the salat (al-salat al-Wustha) is not confined to "noon" time alone but including afternoon (asr) time stated in verse 103:1!
And that is the reason i think why the middle the salat (al-salat al-Wustha) is not named as noon prayer!

My comment on "numerology"
I believe al-Quran is mathematically composed based on this verse:
11:1 A.L.R. This is a scripture whose verses have been perfected/tightened, then elucidated. It comes from a Most Wise, Most Cognizant.

Where the digit of quranic verses can be used as a "tool" to solve any important issue such as the number of salat stated in verse 2:238
This method is normally used by "messenger" Rashad Khalifa in may occasions such as ... http://quranix.org/appendix/final/37#:~:text=Contrary%20to%20common%20belief%2C%20the,to%205%2B38%20%3D%2043.

Since i believe Rashad Khalifa was a messenger of covenant in verse 3:81
And he instead believe in 5 daily prayer with rakaat 24434
I need very concrete evidence if i decide not to follow his teaching
And that is the main reason why I do mathematical analysis
Just to prove to myself  that the number of salat in the Quran is merely three times per day, not five!

And if you refer to my posting #3
Rashad reminded us to follow the Quran alone, not him per se! ... Link: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606178.0
OR in other words, he is not infallible and on some occasions can make mistakes!
Furthermore, I should provide my concrete proof before God in the hereafter if i choose not to follow messenger teaching
That's a gross sin to deny God's messenger without solid reason/proof.

AND my stance will change accordingly if i come across new proof which is better than the proof i had now!
39:18 They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom God has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.

May my Lord forgive me if I'm wrong!
All Praise be to God

Important Note:

Quote from: shukri on October 08, 2024, 07:05:53 PMBrother Wakas,

My posting on reply #13 was not meant to debunk your finding
But to give an input based on mathematical analysis as a comparison

AND the main purpose is just to prove to myself  that the number of salat in the Quran is three times per day and my reference article below has merit.
https://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/number_of_salat_(P1200).html


Ends.
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

JinnJinn

Hey buddies,

Rituals are not amal/works for which you would gain recompense. Don't waste time in doing them be it salat or fasting etc., All these are inventions of ritualistic religions and not from Allah. You may think it is from Allah by looking at certain verses but they are not. That's how they got deviated and invented and don't follow them.

salah is interaction and salawath is interactions.

24:58 Salat al Isha = Interaction of the Isha period/late twilight.
salat al Fajr = interaction of the dawn.

They are family interactions beginning time and end time, so take permission if you want to interact at times not normally interacting. So simple. It's all about interaction and connection. When it comes to interaction with Allah, it is salat with Al Quran.

shukri

Quote from: JinnJinn on October 13, 2024, 08:49:07 PMThey are family interactions beginning time and end time, so take permission if you want to interact at times not normally interacting. So simple. It's all about interaction and connection. When it comes to interaction with Allah, it is salat with Al Quran.

How interaction/salat is done with the Quran
I am quite new to this concept!

Thank you.
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

JinnJinn

صَّلَوٰةَ  = INTERACTION, الصَّلَوَاتِ = INTERACTIONS, الصَّلَاةَ = CONNECTION, صَلَاتِ = CONNECTIONS, and verb forms are connect / interact.

If you are good at distinguishing the meaning of INTERACTION, perhaps you will realize that you are already involved in the interaction of life. Without interaction, there is no life and thus we are created as a communal creature.

Aqim As Salah Wa athu Zaka = Uphold INTERACTION and render PURITY. No human being can render purity without INTERACTION in life. If you happen to corrupt the INTERACTION, then you won't bring/render PURITY.

Arrahman has rendered us an immaculate book, so read and explore in order that you interact with your Lord. Whatever you learn through the book, transfer them into your actions in order for your interactions to be positive.

2:238-239 Sustain upon the interactions (al salawat) and the astuteness/sharpness (al wasat) of the interaction (al salat) and, uphold to Allah/the Savior consistently; While that, you bothered then delve/research or endeavor upon, then when you are confident so, concentrate of Allah/the Savior as what He distinguished you what not you were discerning.

Interaction and Connection have notable differences.