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New Study confirms the Authenticity of Bukhari

Started by centi50, August 04, 2024, 04:30:52 PM

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centi50

Salam to all,

https://youtu.be/gDQ3I5A3Rkw

What do you people think about this video

I am just wondering how can a book contain so much contradicting narations in it be authentic.

We all know rumores and myths can be transmitted and believed en mass, just because many people say about a certain story does not mean the story is true.


What do you guys think

God bless all


Wakas

What the guy in the video is saying is the recension of Firabri matches very highly with the other recension, indicating reliability.
He doesn't clarify if he is comparing a full copy of sahih bukhari to a full copy. Also he makes some claims I'm not sure how accurate they are e.g. he claims sahih Bukhari was taught widely and praised soon as it was written, but that's not true according to Jonathan Brown.
p55 https://www.scribd.com/doc/119660399/dialogues-of-hadith-different-perceptions-and-insights

He also mentions Daraqutni as a supporter of sahih bukhari but thats not quite right as he did critique many of its hadith showing they did not meet sahih status technically.

None of his peers vouched for Firabri. I recommend people watch this video from here onwards:
https://youtu.be/X6SfFYRljeY?t=3861

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

good logic

Peace All.
Here is how ,according to my knowledge of Qoran- Of course one has to check /study Qoran for verification-,the author of Qoran argues this point:

1- Only GOD the creator has the true narrative and His truth is the only source that can confirm the  authenticity of  GOD s religion.

2- Bukhari/any human s book comes from the knowledge of Bukhari/any human. Therefore it is a lesser knowledge than the original source of all knowledge. Therefore no other source can tell you the truth better than GOD and His words/book.

3-All humans have been taught what they know and their knowledge is not complete/perfect. Who taught the human - originally /still doing...the knowledge they acquire?
Therefore , if we have scripture/words from the original source, the original source supersedes and confirms all truths first and foremost.

4- If one believes Qoran is from GOD/Original source of all knowledge, then Qoran should be what confirms  all truths about GOD s religion. "Wala Yunabbiuka Mithlu Khabir"- None can give you the narrative/truths like GOD-
So the only question that remains about the authenticity of Bukhari or any other human book is:

What does Qoran say about any other source of GOD s religion/true Islam if not from GOD Alone?

This to me is the best and final argument about the authenticity of Bukhari.
Simply put, Bukhari/or any other human has no authority or role to add or partake in giving anything about GOD s religion.
If anyone says anything that agree with what GOD said, then GOD has already said it. If it disagrees/contradicts with what GOD said, then it is opposing GOD s religion.

Old or new of anything by humans study is irrelevant. Qoran s study is the one that should do the job.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

centi50

Quote from: good logic on August 06, 2024, 10:59:31 AMPeace All.
Here is how ,according to my knowledge of Qoran- Of course one has to check /study Qoran for verification-,the author of Qoran argues this point:

1- Only GOD the creator has the true narrative and His truth is the only source that can confirm the  authenticity of  GOD s religion.

2- Bukhari/any human s book comes from the knowledge of Bukhari/any human. Therefore it is a lesser knowledge than the original source of all knowledge. Therefore no other source can tell you the truth better than GOD and His words/book.

3-All humans have been taught what they know and their knowledge is not complete/perfect. Who taught the human - originally /still doing...the knowledge they acquire?
Therefore , if we have scripture/words from the original source, the original source supersedes and confirms all truths first and foremost.

4- If one believes Qoran is from GOD/Original source of all knowledge, then Qoran should be what confirms  all truths about GOD s religion. "Wala Yunabbiuka Mithlu Khabir"- None can give you the narrative/truths like GOD-
So the only question that remains about the authenticity of Bukhari or any other human book is:

What does Qoran say about any other source of GOD s religion/true Islam if not from GOD Alone?

This to me is the best and final argument about the authenticity of Bukhari.
Simply put, Bukhari/or any other human has no authority or role to add or partake in giving anything about GOD s religion.
If anyone says anything that agree with what GOD said, then GOD has already said it. If it disagrees/contradicts with what GOD said, then it is opposing GOD s religion.

Old or new of anything by humans study is irrelevant. Qoran s study is the one that should do the job.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.



Salam to Wakas and Good logic


Hadith proponents come with the below verse that the messengers including Muhammad were not post men. They were teaching the book and explaining the book


Al-Baqarah 2:129

رَبَّنَا وَٱبْعَثْ فِيهِمْ رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَايَٰتِكَ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ وَٱلْحِكْمَةَ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْۚ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ ٱلْعَزِيزُ ٱلْحَكِيمُ



Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from themselves who will recite to them Your verses and teach them the Book and wisdom and purify them. Indeed, You are the Exalted in Might,[1] the Wise."


Al-Baqarah 2:151

كَمَآ أَرْسَلْنَا فِيكُمْ رَسُولًا مِّنكُمْ يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْكُمْ ءَايَٰتِنَا وَيُزَكِّيكُمْ وَيُعَلِّمُكُمُ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ وَٱلْحِكْمَةَ وَيُعَلِّمُكُم مَّا لَمْ تَكُونُوا۟ تَعْلَمُونَ


Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom[1] and teaching you that which you did not know.


Al-Jumu'ah 62:2

هُوَ ٱلَّذِى بَعَثَ فِى ٱلْأُمِّيِّۦنَ رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَايَٰتِهِۦ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ وَٱلْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُوا۟ مِن قَبْلُ لَفِى ضَلَٰلٍ مُّبِينٍ



It is He who has sent among the unlettered [Arabs] a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book  and wisdom - although they were before in clear error


What would your argument be in the light of the above verses


God bless




Wakas

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

good logic

Peace centi50

Here is the key points from the verses you quoted, that can only mean from the source of the knowledge/wisdom ,the teaching is from GOD Alone mot from the rasoul.

1- رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْيَ
2- يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْكُمْ ءَايَٰتِنَا   

Rasoul brings a message= يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْكُمْ ءَايَٰتِ from the source- Allah-

GOD has cemented His argument by calling His message Rasoul also:

O people of the scripture, our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from God, and a profound scripture.
يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ قَد جاءَكُم رَسولُنا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُم كَثيرًا مِمّا كُنتُم تُخفونَ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَيَعفوا عَن كَثيرٍ قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ

With it, God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

Here GOD is saying this messenger- Qoran/scripture- does the same as any other messenger . i.e GOD s Ayat are the source of the teaching and wisdom.
This means GOD does the guiding,teaching and wisdom with His Ayats brought by the messenger..
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

centi50

Quote from: good logic on August 10, 2024, 04:41:00 PMPeace centi50

Here is the key points from the verses you quoted, that can only mean from the source of the knowledge/wisdom ,the teaching is from GOD Alone mot from the rasoul.

1- رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْيَ
2- يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْكُمْ ءَايَٰتِنَا   

Rasoul brings a message= يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْكُمْ ءَايَٰتِ from the source- Allah-

GOD has cemented His argument by calling His message Rasoul also:

O people of the scripture, our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from God, and a profound scripture.
يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ قَد جاءَكُم رَسولُنا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُم كَثيرًا مِمّا كُنتُم تُخفونَ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَيَعفوا عَن كَثيرٍ قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ

With it, God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

Here GOD is saying this messenger- Qoran/scripture- does the same as any other messenger . i.e GOD s Ayat are the source of the teaching and wisdom.
This means GOD does the guiding,teaching and wisdom with His Ayats brought by the messenger..
GOD bless you.
Peace.


Salam Good logic

How did you deduce the verse you quoted it's the Quran that is called the messenger and not the messenger (prophet Muhammad.

God bless you

good logic

Peace centi50.
The next sentence in the same verse tells me what the messenger is:

 قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ

A clear book/scripture  and light has come to you. i.e this messenger that came to you to proclaim /make clear to you/teach you many things you concealed/ kept hidden in the past scriptures is this new scripture/Qoran.
The next verse explains what this book/scripture does:
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

GOD guides with it/Qoran/this new scripture- Cannot be any human or different messenger.as only one messenger is mentioned in the two verses with the same context that explains what this messenger does/makes clear to us..
 This messenger is the clear book/scripture/and light that GOD guides with.. i.e-Qoran-
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

centi50

Quote from: good logic on August 13, 2024, 09:21:31 AMPeace centi50.
The next sentence in the same verse tells me what the messenger is:

 قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ

A clear book/scripture  and light has come to you. i.e this messenger that came to you to proclaim /make clear to you/teach you many things you concealed/ kept hidden in the past scriptures is this new scripture/Qoran.
The next verse explains what this book/scripture does:
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

GOD guides with it/Qoran/this new scripture- Cannot be any human or different messenger.as only one messenger is mentioned in the two verses with the same context that explains what this messenger does/makes clear to us..
 This messenger is the clear book/scripture/and light that GOD guides with.. i.e-Qoran-
GOD bless you.
Peace.


Salam good logic

So you think the prophet was just a messenger. He just delivered the book and that it. He never taught the Arabs anything. He never taught his people understand of the Al Quran?

In this century even we who takes the Quran as the source of laws have differences, do you think during the time of the prophet also they had differences like we do? While the prophet was among them alive. If only the prophet was a postman. Then also those Muslims in his time had differences. As everyone was having his own understanding


God bless all

good logic

Peace centi50
GOD does everything and has sent the details of everything to do with our salvation and redemption in His message/Qoran

The prophet delivered Qoran, GOD knows people will dispute/debate His message in all generations.
.
Any copy of Qoran for the sincere,will do to start with.GOD guides with His words and one should not worry if people do, add or take away verses or one can only find some portion of Qoran interesting or all of it or....
Remember when it started , it took many years for the prophet s generation to have the complete Qoran.

GOD is all knowledgeable and sends or confirms what is needed and according to the knowledge reached by different generations.
" Say: The future belongs to GOD so wait everybody will have to be patient and wait"

Now Muhammad has been, delivered the Qoran and gone. Only GOD tells us the truth about His religion. We can speculate about what the prophet and his people did or not done, but we have the same Qoran. it says:]
"They are people who passed away ,they have what they worked for/followed.. and we have what we work for/follow."
The message is the most important thing.and we have it with us now.
Qoran is the ever living messenger since it came and will outlive all messengers. It is the ultimate messenger.

If one is looking to change their priorities and better themselves and their soul, and believes Qoran is the message of GOD, then they will take the message seriously and prepare to meet their creator. The trust and total loyalty in GOD Alone will take them towards certainty in their belief.

Do you believe Qoran is GOD s scripture?
Then GOD Alone and His message- Qoran alone- takes the number one priority.

What Qoran confirms for me I take, what is contradictory and opposes it I ignore  Of course according to my faculties that GOD gave me to use and I am responsible and accountable at GOD s for. Same should be for every individual.

Best of luck with your journey and freedom of choice.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: centi50 on August 17, 2024, 10:03:24 AMIn this century even we who takes the Quran as the source of laws have differences, do you think during the time of the prophet also they had differences like we do?
Salaam, of course they did.

It was narrated from 'Amir bin Sa'd that his father said:
"I became ill with a sickness from which I later recovered. The Messenger of Allah came to visit me, and I said: 'O Messenger of Allah, I have a great deal of wealth and I have no heir except my daughter. Shall I give two-thirds of my wealth in charity?' He said: 'No.' I said: 'Half?' He said: 'No.' I said: 'One-third?' He said: '(Give) one-third, and one-third is a lot. It is better to leave your heirs independent of means, than to leave them poor and holding out their hands to people.'

According to the Quran, as the only heir, she receives the entire inheritance after a will, just as an only son would. In 4:11, and if be she/kānat one (f) so for her the half, which applies to situations with one female and one male. However, this is often misunderstood, leading to contradictory shares and false interpretations of a simple verse posted all over the internet, including on this site.

centi50

Quote from: Bajram Hoxhaj on August 17, 2024, 06:05:54 PMSalaam, of course they did.

It was narrated from 'Amir bin Sa'd that his father said:
"I became ill with a sickness from which I later recovered. The Messenger of Allah came to visit me, and I said: 'O Messenger of Allah, I have a great deal of wealth and I have no heir except my daughter. Shall I give two-thirds of my wealth in charity?' He said: 'No.' I said: 'Half?' He said: 'No.' I said: 'One-third?' He said: '(Give) one-third, and one-third is a lot. It is better to leave your heirs independent of means, than to leave them poor and holding out their hands to people.'

According to the Quran, as the only heir, she receives the entire inheritance after a will, just as an only son would. In 4:11, and if be she/kānat one (f) so for her the half, which applies to situations with one female and one male. However, this is often misunderstood, leading to contradictory shares and false interpretations of a simple verse posted all over the internet, including on this site.


Salam bro,

I did not get the hadith you posted, because I was asking if differeces did occur during the few years after the demise of the prophet. If they were are their materials we can refer to show differences of opinion on religions laws.

Secondly what is your take that the prophet was just a postman and just delivered the book and thats it.


An-Nisa' 4:135

يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ كُونُوا۟ قَوَّٰمِينَ بِٱلْقِسْطِ شُهَدَآءَ لِلَّهِ وَلَوْ عَلَىٰٓ أَنفُسِكُمْ أَوِ ٱلْوَٰلِدَيْنِ وَٱلْأَقْرَبِينَۚ إِن يَكُنْ غَنِيًّا أَوْ فَقِيرًا فَٱللَّهُ أَوْلَىٰ بِهِمَاۖ فَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا۟ ٱلْهَوَىٰٓ أَن تَعْدِلُوا۟ۚ وَإِن تَلْوُۥٓا۟ أَوْ تُعْرِضُوا۟ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا



O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allāh, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allāh is more worthy of both.[1] So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allāh is ever, of what you do, Aware.



What is your understanding of this verse. How did he explain it to the people.

Please not I don't belive in hadith as a source of law in religion nor do I believe  he could make up his own laws which are not Quran based.

Am just asking this question because one hadith guy gave me this verse and I had nothing to reply.

Your input and others too will be appreciated

God bless all

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: centi50 on September 04, 2024, 10:38:02 AMSalam bro,

I did not get the hadith you posted, because I was asking if differeces did occur during the few years after the demise of the prophet. If they were are their materials we can refer to show differences of opinion on religions laws.

Secondly what is your take that the prophet was just a postman and just delivered the book and thats it.


An-Nisa' 4:135

يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ كُونُوا۟ قَوَّٰمِينَ بِٱلْقِسْطِ شُهَدَآءَ لِلَّهِ وَلَوْ عَلَىٰٓ أَنفُسِكُمْ أَوِ ٱلْوَٰلِدَيْنِ وَٱلْأَقْرَبِينَۚ إِن يَكُنْ غَنِيًّا أَوْ فَقِيرًا فَٱللَّهُ أَوْلَىٰ بِهِمَاۖ فَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا۟ ٱلْهَوَىٰٓ أَن تَعْدِلُوا۟ۚ وَإِن تَلْوُۥٓا۟ أَوْ تُعْرِضُوا۟ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا



O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allāh, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allāh is more worthy of both.[1] So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allāh is ever, of what you do, Aware.



What is your understanding of this verse. How did he explain it to the people.

Please not I don't belive in hadith as a source of law in religion nor do I believe  he could make up his own laws which are not Quran based.

Am just asking this question because one hadith guy gave me this verse and I had nothing to reply.

Your input and others too will be appreciated

God bless all

Salaam,

The verse is explicit, no need for further explanation.

4:135 O ye the ones believes ye of be ye of steadfast in the justice witnesses of to God and in case on (against) yourselves or the parents two and the nearer (relatives) if beeth ample of or poor of so the God nearest in them dual so not thou follow ye of the desire lest thou deviate ye of and if distort ye of or thou turn away ye of so indeed the God is in what thou working aware of

On the messenger only question; obviously Qur'an was used e.g., an only heir, such as a daughter, receives the entire inheritance. This is consistent with the Qur'an and the hadith which I posted which differs from the traditional interpretations which suggest that an only daughter receives half, leading to confusion about who gets the remaining half?

It's important to note that not all hadiths are accurate. Many contain preconceived biases, political agendas, or other inaccuracies. Similarly, understanding the context of events requires historical knowledge. Without this knowledge, for example, if the Qur'an is presented to isolated people, they may only grasp the general messages, such as "be kind and just."

Emre_1974tr

Speaking of inheritance, Allah's verses on inheritance are very clear and explicit.

But the lies fabricated by the traitorous and perverted devil who writes on the forum under the name Bayram Hoxhaj and also under several other names are the sickening games of a tyrant who tries to cover up the truth. This shameless germ is always a spoiler/demon who tries to obstruct the message.

Anyway, to return to our topic, the division of inheritance that Allah Almighty has taught us and commanded us is very easy and clear.

In summary: In verse 11, there is no spouse, while in verse 12, there is a spouse, verse 176 tells how to make a taksim when there are only siblings of the deceased:

Resolution of Heritage Verses

Each of the heritage verses, Nisa 11, 12 and 176, actually offers separate formulas for individual situations. In fact, each sentence in these verses mentions a separate situation and formula in its own right...

When I was researching it online, I saw that there were people who noticed and said that these three verses gave separate formulas in them. But as I said, not only the verse, but also every sentence in the verses also mentions a different situation and sharing in its own right. Each sentence is a separate list of heirs and the proportions they will receive.

Whoever's mentioned in the sentence, they're the only heirs. So either they're alive, or they're still being inherited, even if they're others.

Therefore, in fact, there is no ratio to each other, common formula, hunting, as the sects practice. In Nisa 11, for example, "If there are more than two women, they own two-thirds of what the deceased leaves." is a separate formula alone (if only girls are heirs and more than two girls, this rate applies, or else it is not in other stylish and circumstances).

And so the stones are in place. In any case, it's enough. Not only is there increased inheritance in some cases, but there is also who will be given this increased amount in light of the verses. (E.g. Verse 8 of Nisa...)

Now let's write verses Nisa 11, 12, and 176 describing this heritage share and then provide an example of analysis through one:

Nisa

4:11 God directs you regarding the inheritance of your children: "To the male shall be as that given to two females. If they are women, more than two, then they will have two thirds of what is inherited. And if she is only one, then she will have one half. And to his parents, each one of them shall have one sixth of what is inherited, if he has a child. If he has no child and his parents are the heirs, then to his mother is one third; if he has siblings then to his mother is one sixth. All after a will is carried through or a debt. Your parents and your children, you do not know which are closer to you in benefit, a directive from God, for God is Knowledgeable, Wise."

4:12 And for you is half of what your wives leave behind if they have no child; but if they have a child then to you is one quarter of what they leave behind. All after a will is carried through or a debt. And to them is one quarter of what you leave behind if you have no child; but if you have a child then to them is one eighth of what you leave behind. All after a will is carried through or a debt. And if a man or a woman who is being inherited has no ascendants, but has a brother or a sister, then to each one of them is one sixth, but if they are more than this then they are to share in one third. All after a will is carried through or a debt, which does not cause harm. A directive from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Compassionate.

4:176 They seek a ruling from you, say: "God gives you the ruling for those who have no ascendants. If a person passes away and has no children but has a sister, then she shall receive half of what he leaves behind; and he will inherit from her if she has no child. However, if he has two sisters, then they will receive two thirds of what he left behind; and if he has siblings, men and women, then the male shall receive twice what the female receives." God makes clear to you that you do not stray; God is aware of all things.

***

As an example, let's open up the information given in verse 11.

I have said that each of these verses, let alone each sentence in them, offer separate formulas for different situations. Let's present his analysis:

Nisa

11. "Allah advises you regarding your children: For the male, the share of two females."

That is, if the heirs consist of only children and there are both male and female children, male children will receive 2 units, while female ones will receive 1 unit.

Briefly, with an example, if there is 300 L. inheritance and a man and a woman have children, the male will receive 200 L. and the woman will receive 100 L.

"If they are more than two women, they have two-thirds of what the deceased left."

So if they only have daughters as inheritors and their number is more than two, they have two-thirds of the inheritance. Here I would like to draw your attention again; The desired here is for girls to receive two-thirds only and only in this case. Otherwise, there is no such share in other terms and conditions.
(By the way, considering the statement in verse 176, if the inheritors are 2 girls, these 2 people share two thirds).


If we continue with the 300 L. example, they only have girls and if they are more than two, they share 200 liras among them.

"If the child is just a woman, he owns half the inheritance."

As stated in the continuation sentence in the verse, if the deceased left only a single daughter  she could receive half of the inheritance.

Again, if we go over 300 Lira, 150 Lira means this one girl child.

"If the deceased has a child, he will have a sixth share for each of the parents as he left them behind."

We understand from this statement that this time the heir has left his parents behind as well as his children, and that's why they have a share (one sixth for each ...).

Of the 300 lira, 50 lira belongs to the mother, 50 lira to the father, and the remaining is the children.

"If the deceased has no children and his parents have inherited him, then his mother is one third."

In this sentence in Nisa 11 verse, it is mentioned that "only the mother and father are inheritors". So this time there are no children, only the parents of the deceased are inheritors (even if there are siblings or something left behind, they are not inheritors).

In this case, the mother received a third. Since the share rate is not given although the father is mentioned in the sentence, the remaining two thirds means your father.

In this case, the mother receives 100 Liras of 300 Liras, while the father receives 200 Liras.

"If he has siblings, his mother's share is one-sixth of what is left of his will and debt."

If the deceased has a mother but does not have a father and also has siblings, the share of the mother decreases to one in six. The rest are shared by the brothers. But let's repeat, if the father had also been the father, only the mother and father would have received the estate, and the siblings would not have their share ... (And as it is understood from the verses, if the deceased has a child, the siblings cannot get a share.)

Likewise, in verses 12 and 176, special cases and formulas are mentioned, sentence by sentence. For example, if the deceased left a spouse in verse 12, verse 176 tells how the division would be if only siblings / siblings left behind, and as I said, each sentence in these verses contains a list of heirs and a formula.

If you wish, let us briefly examine the verse 176 of Nisa in this context:

4:176 They seek a ruling from you, say: "God gives you the ruling for those who have no ascendants. If a person passes away and has no children but has a sister, then she shall receive half of what he leaves behind; and he will inherit from her if she has no child. However, if he has two sisters, then they will receive two thirds of what he left behind; and if he has siblings, men and women, then the male shall receive twice what the female receives." God makes clear to you that you do not stray; God is aware of all things.
Here, too, "if only siblings are heirs", it is explained what the proportions are and of course, each sentence offers a separate list and a separate formula:

If the heir is only 1 sister, half of the inheritance,
If the heir is 1 brother, he takes all of the inheritance,
If 2 sisters are heirs, they get two-thirds,
If only the siblings are inheritors and they are men and women, that is, of both sexes, they share the entire estate as one (female) and two (male).

By the way, we indirectly understand from these verses that if there are only many brothers left, these sisters will receive the entire inheritance, or if there are more than two sisters (referring to verse 11), these sisters will receive two-thirds of the inheritance (equally divided among themselves).

If you read verses 11 and 176 of Nisa one after the other, you will see that the rates given to boys and girls only when children are inheritors in verse 11 are exactly the same as those given to brothers and sisters when only brothers are inheritors in verse 176.

(Incidentally, let us state that the siblings mentioned in one sentence of Nisa 12 verse and the deceased's spouse are the heirs. But in this verse 176, "only brothers" are heirs.)

In summary: In verse 11, there is no spouse, while in verse 12, there is a spouse, verse 176 tells how to make a taksim when there are only brothers.

***

And as it is known, what is essential is the testament according to the verses, and these rates are for the division of the remaining property after the will is fulfilled and the debts, if any, are paid.

As you can see, there are none of the problems such as insufficient inheritance or courtyard. The verses describe the sharing of heritage in a flawless manner. The important point here is to be able to see that each sentence gives a separate formula according to a separate list of heirs. In other words, each sentence in the verses gives a unique list of heirs and tells what the heirs will receive in this case.

While solving problems related to inheritance sharing, it is checked who the surviving heirs are, and the inheritance is divided by determining which sentence of the verses related to inheritance.

As an example, let's solve the question involving 3 famous girl heirs.

"A man dies and leaves behind a mother, a father, three daughters and a wife. How will the heritage be shared? ".

Since both the spouse and the children are inheritors here, the fourth sentence of Nisa 12 verse describes the relevant section (each sentence of this verse describes what should be done if there is a surviving spouse):

". And to them is one quarter of what you leave behind if you have no child; but if you have a child then to them is one eighth of what you leave behind"

According to this sentence, if the man leaves his wife behind and has children, only these people can be inheritors. His wife gets one eighth of the estate, and the children get seven eight . Even if the deceased has a mother, father or siblings, he cannot get a share in this case.


***

As I said, each sentence gives a separate heir list and formula, and as you can see, inheritance is always enough.

Increasing inheritance is in question only in some cases, again, as I mentioned at the beginning of my article, there are verses containing signs that show who this increased heritage can be given ... For example:

4:8 And if the distribution is attended by the relatives and the orphans and the needy, then you shall give them part of it and say to them a kind saying.
[url="https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr"]https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr[/url]

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Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: Emre_1974tr on September 04, 2024, 05:48:43 PMSpeaking of inheritance
I'll refrain from name-calling like 'Turkish salak lowlife.' Your posts are attention-seeking, similar to Kim Kardashian's media presence.

You keep avoiding simple questions, like how much father and two daughters receive?

The post you've repeated 100+ times contains 1,000+ contradictions, and you're spamming and breaking forum rules. I'm surprised moderators like Wakas allow it.

Lastly 3:119 die ye of in rage yours!

Emre_1974tr

Quote from: Bajram Hoxhaj on September 04, 2024, 09:38:22 PMI'll re

No, you traitorous evil demon. You're the one making contradictory and spammy posts.

You're a traitorous narcissistic vampire programmed to block the message. Sooner or later you're going to lose and you're going to hell by God.

You're the one who insults and threatens people on the forum when they don't accept what you say by saying, 'there's nothing to discuss, you will accept what I say, or you'll go to hell.' And because of your devilish attitude, people have started leaving the forum.

You are the perverted creature mentioned in the verse who will go to hell. (3:119)
[url="https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr"]https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr[/url]

[url="http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/"]http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/[/url]

Emre_1974tr

Resolution of Heritage Verses

Each of the heritage verses, Nisa 11, 12 and 176, actually offers separate formulas for individual situations. In fact, each sentence in these verses mentions a separate situation and formula in its own right...

When I was researching it online, I saw that there were people who noticed and said that these three verses gave separate formulas in them. But as I said, not only the verse, but also every sentence in the verses also mentions a different situation and sharing in its own right. Each sentence is a separate list of heirs and the proportions they will receive.

Whoever's mentioned in the sentence, they're the only heirs. So either they're alive, or they're still being inherited, even if they're others.

Therefore, in fact, there is no ratio to each other, common formula, hunting, as the sects practice. In Nisa 11, for example, "If there are more than two women, they own two-thirds of what the deceased leaves." is a separate formula alone (if only girls are heirs and more than two girls, this rate applies, or else it is not in other stylish and circumstances).

And so the stones are in place. In any case, it's enough. Not only is there increased inheritance in some cases, but there is also who will be given this increased amount in light of the verses. (E.g. Verse 8 of Nisa...)

Now let's write verses Nisa 11, 12, and 176 describing this heritage share and then provide an example of analysis through one:

Nisa

4:11 God directs you regarding the inheritance of your children: "To the male shall be as that given to two females. If they are women, more than two, then they will have two thirds of what is inherited. And if she is only one, then she will have one half. And to his parents, each one of them shall have one sixth of what is inherited, if he has a child. If he has no child and his parents are the heirs, then to his mother is one third; if he has siblings then to his mother is one sixth. All after a will is carried through or a debt. Your parents and your children, you do not know which are closer to you in benefit, a directive from God, for God is Knowledgeable, Wise."

4:12 And for you is half of what your wives leave behind if they have no child; but if they have a child then to you is one quarter of what they leave behind. All after a will is carried through or a debt. And to them is one quarter of what you leave behind if you have no child; but if you have a child then to them is one eighth of what you leave behind. All after a will is carried through or a debt. And if a man or a woman who is being inherited has no ascendants, but has a brother or a sister, then to each one of them is one sixth, but if they are more than this then they are to share in one third. All after a will is carried through or a debt, which does not cause harm. A directive from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Compassionate.

4:176 They seek a ruling from you, say: "God gives you the ruling for those who have no ascendants. If a person passes away and has no children but has a sister, then she shall receive half of what he leaves behind; and he will inherit from her if she has no child. However, if he has two sisters, then they will receive two thirds of what he left behind; and if he has siblings, men and women, then the male shall receive twice what the female receives." God makes clear to you that you do not stray; God is aware of all things.

***

As an example, let's open up the information given in verse 11.

I have said that each of these verses, let alone each sentence in them, offer separate formulas for different situations. Let's present his analysis:

Nisa

11. "Allah advises you regarding your children: For the male, the share of two females."

That is, if the heirs consist of only children and there are both male and female children, male children will receive 2 units, while female ones will receive 1 unit.

Briefly, with an example, if there is 300 L. inheritance and a man and a woman have children, the male will receive 200 L. and the woman will receive 100 L.

"If they are more than two women, they have two-thirds of what the deceased left."

So if they only have daughters as inheritors and their number is more than two, they have two-thirds of the inheritance. Here I would like to draw your attention again; The desired here is for girls to receive two-thirds only and only in this case. Otherwise, there is no such share in other terms and conditions.
(By the way, considering the statement in verse 176, if the inheritors are 2 girls, these 2 people share two thirds).


If we continue with the 300 L. example, they only have girls and if they are more than two, they share 200 liras among them.

"If the child is just a woman, he owns half the inheritance."

As stated in the continuation sentence in the verse, if the deceased left only a single daughter  she could receive half of the inheritance.

Again, if we go over 300 Lira, 150 Lira means this one girl child.

"If the deceased has a child, he will have a sixth share for each of the parents as he left them behind."

We understand from this statement that this time the heir has left his parents behind as well as his children, and that's why they have a share (one sixth for each ...).

Of the 300 lira, 50 lira belongs to the mother, 50 lira to the father, and the remaining is the children.

"If the deceased has no children and his parents have inherited him, then his mother is one third."

In this sentence in Nisa 11 verse, it is mentioned that "only the mother and father are inheritors". So this time there are no children, only the parents of the deceased are inheritors (even if there are siblings or something left behind, they are not inheritors).

In this case, the mother received a third. Since the share rate is not given although the father is mentioned in the sentence, the remaining two thirds means your father.

In this case, the mother receives 100 Liras of 300 Liras, while the father receives 200 Liras.

"If he has siblings, his mother's share is one-sixth of what is left of his will and debt."

If the deceased has a mother but does not have a father and also has siblings, the share of the mother decreases to one in six. The rest are shared by the brothers. But let's repeat, if the father had also been the father, only the mother and father would have received the estate, and the siblings would not have their share ... (And as it is understood from the verses, if the deceased has a child, the siblings cannot get a share.)

Likewise, in verses 12 and 176, special cases and formulas are mentioned, sentence by sentence. For example, if the deceased left a spouse in verse 12, verse 176 tells how the division would be if only siblings / siblings left behind, and as I said, each sentence in these verses contains a list of heirs and a formula.

If you wish, let us briefly examine the verse 176 of Nisa in this context:

4:176 They seek a ruling from you, say: "God gives you the ruling for those who have no ascendants. If a person passes away and has no children but has a sister, then she shall receive half of what he leaves behind; and he will inherit from her if she has no child. However, if he has two sisters, then they will receive two thirds of what he left behind; and if he has siblings, men and women, then the male shall receive twice what the female receives." God makes clear to you that you do not stray; God is aware of all things.
Here, too, "if only siblings are heirs", it is explained what the proportions are and of course, each sentence offers a separate list and a separate formula:

If the heir is only 1 sister, half of the inheritance,
If the heir is 1 brother, he takes all of the inheritance,
If 2 sisters are heirs, they get two-thirds,
If only the siblings are inheritors and they are men and women, that is, of both sexes, they share the entire estate as one (female) and two (male).

By the way, we indirectly understand from these verses that if there are only many brothers left, these sisters will receive the entire inheritance, or if there are more than two sisters (referring to verse 11), these sisters will receive two-thirds of the inheritance (equally divided among themselves).

If you read verses 11 and 176 of Nisa one after the other, you will see that the rates given to boys and girls only when children are inheritors in verse 11 are exactly the same as those given to brothers and sisters when only brothers are inheritors in verse 176.

(Incidentally, let us state that the siblings mentioned in one sentence of Nisa 12 verse and the deceased's spouse are the heirs. But in this verse 176, "only brothers" are heirs.)

In summary: In verse 11, there is no spouse, while in verse 12, there is a spouse, verse 176 tells how to make a taksim when there are only brothers.

***

And as it is known, what is essential is the testament according to the verses, and these rates are for the division of the remaining property after the will is fulfilled and the debts, if any, are paid.

As you can see, there are none of the problems such as insufficient inheritance or courtyard. The verses describe the sharing of heritage in a flawless manner. The important point here is to be able to see that each sentence gives a separate formula according to a separate list of heirs. In other words, each sentence in the verses gives a unique list of heirs and tells what the heirs will receive in this case.

While solving problems related to inheritance sharing, it is checked who the surviving heirs are, and the inheritance is divided by determining which sentence of the verses related to inheritance.

As an example, let's solve the question involving 3 famous girl heirs.

"A man dies and leaves behind a mother, a father, three daughters and a wife. How will the heritage be shared? ".

Since both the spouse and the children are inheritors here, the fourth sentence of Nisa 12 verse describes the relevant section (each sentence of this verse describes what should be done if there is a surviving spouse):

". And to them is one quarter of what you leave behind if you have no child; but if you have a child then to them is one eighth of what you leave behind"

According to this sentence, if the man leaves his wife behind and has children, only these people can be inheritors. His wife gets one eighth of the estate, and the children get seven eight . Even if the deceased has a mother, father or siblings, he cannot get a share in this case.


***

As I said, each sentence gives a separate heir list and formula, and as you can see, inheritance is always enough.

Increasing inheritance is in question only in some cases, again, as I mentioned at the beginning of my article, there are verses containing signs that show who this increased heritage can be given ... For example:

4:8 And if the distribution is attended by the relatives and the orphans and the needy, then you shall give them part of it and say to them a kind saying.
[url="https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr"]https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr[/url]

[url="http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/"]http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/[/url]

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: Emre_1974tr on September 04, 2024, 09:54:47 PMYou're the one making contradictory and spammy posts.
No, name one contradictory statement I've made out of 1,000+ cases. You hijacked the inheritance thread and others with spam, avoiding simple questions like: How much goes to the father and two daughters? If you don't know (which is obvious), just say so.

Emre_1974tr

Resolution of Heritage Verses

Each of the heritage verses, Nisa 11, 12 and 176, actually offers separate formulas for individual situations. In fact, each sentence in these verses mentions a separate situation and formula in its own right...

When I was researching it online, I saw that there were people who noticed and said that these three verses gave separate formulas in them. But as I said, not only the verse, but also every sentence in the verses also mentions a different situation and sharing in its own right. Each sentence is a separate list of heirs and the proportions they will receive.

Whoever's mentioned in the sentence, they're the only heirs. So either they're alive, or they're still being inherited, even if they're others.

Therefore, in fact, there is no ratio to each other, common formula, hunting, as the sects practice. In Nisa 11, for example, "If there are more than two women, they own two-thirds of what the deceased leaves." is a separate formula alone (if only girls are heirs and more than two girls, this rate applies, or else it is not in other stylish and circumstances).

And so the stones are in place. In any case, it's enough. Not only is there increased inheritance in some cases, but there is also who will be given this increased amount in light of the verses. (E.g. Verse 8 of Nisa...)

Now let's write verses Nisa 11, 12, and 176 describing this heritage share and then provide an example of analysis through one:

Nisa

4:11 God directs you regarding the inheritance of your children: "To the male shall be as that given to two females. If they are women, more than two, then they will have two thirds of what is inherited. And if she is only one, then she will have one half. And to his parents, each one of them shall have one sixth of what is inherited, if he has a child. If he has no child and his parents are the heirs, then to his mother is one third; if he has siblings then to his mother is one sixth. All after a will is carried through or a debt. Your parents and your children, you do not know which are closer to you in benefit, a directive from God, for God is Knowledgeable, Wise."

4:12 And for you is half of what your wives leave behind if they have no child; but if they have a child then to you is one quarter of what they leave behind. All after a will is carried through or a debt. And to them is one quarter of what you leave behind if you have no child; but if you have a child then to them is one eighth of what you leave behind. All after a will is carried through or a debt. And if a man or a woman who is being inherited has no ascendants, but has a brother or a sister, then to each one of them is one sixth, but if they are more than this then they are to share in one third. All after a will is carried through or a debt, which does not cause harm. A directive from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Compassionate.

4:176 They seek a ruling from you, say: "God gives you the ruling for those who have no ascendants. If a person passes away and has no children but has a sister, then she shall receive half of what he leaves behind; and he will inherit from her if she has no child. However, if he has two sisters, then they will receive two thirds of what he left behind; and if he has siblings, men and women, then the male shall receive twice what the female receives." God makes clear to you that you do not stray; God is aware of all things.

***

As an example, let's open up the information given in verse 11.

I have said that each of these verses, let alone each sentence in them, offer separate formulas for different situations. Let's present his analysis:

Nisa

11. "Allah advises you regarding your children: For the male, the share of two females."

That is, if the heirs consist of only children and there are both male and female children, male children will receive 2 units, while female ones will receive 1 unit.

Briefly, with an example, if there is 300 L. inheritance and a man and a woman have children, the male will receive 200 L. and the woman will receive 100 L.

"If they are more than two women, they have two-thirds of what the deceased left."

So if they only have daughters as inheritors and their number is more than two, they have two-thirds of the inheritance. Here I would like to draw your attention again; The desired here is for girls to receive two-thirds only and only in this case. Otherwise, there is no such share in other terms and conditions.
(By the way, considering the statement in verse 176, if the inheritors are 2 girls, these 2 people share two thirds).


If we continue with the 300 L. example, they only have girls and if they are more than two, they share 200 liras among them.

"If the child is just a woman, he owns half the inheritance."

As stated in the continuation sentence in the verse, if the deceased left only a single daughter  she could receive half of the inheritance.

Again, if we go over 300 Lira, 150 Lira means this one girl child.

"If the deceased has a child, he will have a sixth share for each of the parents as he left them behind."

We understand from this statement that this time the heir has left his parents behind as well as his children, and that's why they have a share (one sixth for each ...).

Of the 300 lira, 50 lira belongs to the mother, 50 lira to the father, and the remaining is the children.

"If the deceased has no children and his parents have inherited him, then his mother is one third."

In this sentence in Nisa 11 verse, it is mentioned that "only the mother and father are inheritors". So this time there are no children, only the parents of the deceased are inheritors (even if there are siblings or something left behind, they are not inheritors).

In this case, the mother received a third. Since the share rate is not given although the father is mentioned in the sentence, the remaining two thirds means your father.

In this case, the mother receives 100 Liras of 300 Liras, while the father receives 200 Liras.

"If he has siblings, his mother's share is one-sixth of what is left of his will and debt."

If the deceased has a mother but does not have a father and also has siblings, the share of the mother decreases to one in six. The rest are shared by the brothers. But let's repeat, if the father had also been the father, only the mother and father would have received the estate, and the siblings would not have their share ... (And as it is understood from the verses, if the deceased has a child, the siblings cannot get a share.)

Likewise, in verses 12 and 176, special cases and formulas are mentioned, sentence by sentence. For example, if the deceased left a spouse in verse 12, verse 176 tells how the division would be if only siblings / siblings left behind, and as I said, each sentence in these verses contains a list of heirs and a formula.

If you wish, let us briefly examine the verse 176 of Nisa in this context:

4:176 They seek a ruling from you, say: "God gives you the ruling for those who have no ascendants. If a person passes away and has no children but has a sister, then she shall receive half of what he leaves behind; and he will inherit from her if she has no child. However, if he has two sisters, then they will receive two thirds of what he left behind; and if he has siblings, men and women, then the male shall receive twice what the female receives." God makes clear to you that you do not stray; God is aware of all things.
Here, too, "if only siblings are heirs", it is explained what the proportions are and of course, each sentence offers a separate list and a separate formula:

If the heir is only 1 sister, half of the inheritance,
If the heir is 1 brother, he takes all of the inheritance,
If 2 sisters are heirs, they get two-thirds,
If only the siblings are inheritors and they are men and women, that is, of both sexes, they share the entire estate as one (female) and two (male).

By the way, we indirectly understand from these verses that if there are only many brothers left, these sisters will receive the entire inheritance, or if there are more than two sisters (referring to verse 11), these sisters will receive two-thirds of the inheritance (equally divided among themselves).

If you read verses 11 and 176 of Nisa one after the other, you will see that the rates given to boys and girls only when children are inheritors in verse 11 are exactly the same as those given to brothers and sisters when only brothers are inheritors in verse 176.

(Incidentally, let us state that the siblings mentioned in one sentence of Nisa 12 verse and the deceased's spouse are the heirs. But in this verse 176, "only brothers" are heirs.)

In summary: In verse 11, there is no spouse, while in verse 12, there is a spouse, verse 176 tells how to make a taksim when there are only brothers.

***

And as it is known, what is essential is the testament according to the verses, and these rates are for the division of the remaining property after the will is fulfilled and the debts, if any, are paid.

As you can see, there are none of the problems such as insufficient inheritance or courtyard. The verses describe the sharing of heritage in a flawless manner. The important point here is to be able to see that each sentence gives a separate formula according to a separate list of heirs. In other words, each sentence in the verses gives a unique list of heirs and tells what the heirs will receive in this case.

While solving problems related to inheritance sharing, it is checked who the surviving heirs are, and the inheritance is divided by determining which sentence of the verses related to inheritance.

As an example, let's solve the question involving 3 famous girl heirs.

"A man dies and leaves behind a mother, a father, three daughters and a wife. How will the heritage be shared? ".

Since both the spouse and the children are inheritors here, the fourth sentence of Nisa 12 verse describes the relevant section (each sentence of this verse describes what should be done if there is a surviving spouse):

". And to them is one quarter of what you leave behind if you have no child; but if you have a child then to them is one eighth of what you leave behind"

According to this sentence, if the man leaves his wife behind and has children, only these people can be inheritors. His wife gets one eighth of the estate, and the children get seven eight . Even if the deceased has a mother, father or siblings, he cannot get a share in this case.


***

As I said, each sentence gives a separate heir list and formula, and as you can see, inheritance is always enough.

Increasing inheritance is in question only in some cases, again, as I mentioned at the beginning of my article, there are verses containing signs that show who this increased heritage can be given ... For example:

4:8 And if the distribution is attended by the relatives and the orphans and the needy, then you shall give them part of it and say to them a kind saying.
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centi50

Quote from: Bajram Hoxhaj on September 04, 2024, 01:05:59 PMSalaam,

The verse is explicit, no need for further explanation.

4:135 O ye the ones believes ye of be ye of steadfast in the justice witnesses of to God and in case on (against) yourselves or the parents two and the nearer (relatives) if beeth ample of or poor of so the God nearest in them dual so not thou follow ye of the desire lest thou deviate ye of and if distort ye of or thou turn away ye of so indeed the God is in what thou working aware of

On the messenger only question; obviously Qur'an was used e.g., an only heir, such as a daughter, receives the entire inheritance. This is consistent with the Qur'an and the hadith which I posted which differs from the traditional interpretations which suggest that an only daughter receives half, leading to confusion about who gets the remaining half?

It's important to note that not all hadiths are accurate. Many contain preconceived biases, political agendas, or other inaccuracies. Similarly, understanding the context of events requires historical knowledge. Without this knowledge, for example, if the Qur'an is presented to isolated people, they may only grasp the general messages, such as "be kind and just."


Salam bro,

What was the role of the messenger. Was it only to deliver the book. He didn't give any explanation? We only people following Quran have different understanding and opinions. We do have disagreement on issues.



An-Nisa' 4:59

يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ أَطِيعُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا۟ ٱلرَّسُولَ وَأُو۟لِى ٱلْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْۖ فَإِن تَنَٰزَعْتُمْ فِى شَىْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَٱلرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْءَاخِرِۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا


O you who have believed, obey Allāh and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allāh and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allāh and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.



God is telling the believers if they had a differed they should refer to The Messenger. This means he was not just postman. What I have difficulty in understanding is that the prophet was just a postman. He must have other role as a teacher. But I do reject that his explanation is find in the satanic books of hadiths.

good logic

Peace centi50
You say, quote:
"God is telling the believers if they had a differed they should refer to The Messenger. This means he was not just postman. What I have difficulty in understanding is that the prophet was just a postman. He must have other role as a teacher. But I do reject that his explanation is find in the satanic books of hadiths."

So where are you going to find the messenger explanations then?
Is Qoran not giving you his explanations in: it:"They ask you about...Say: such and such..."?
GOD us giving the explanations in the book/scripture.

Study Qoran and believe GOD s words in it.GOD will teach and explain everything you need to know about how to redeem and save your soul in His scripture. .
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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centi50

Quote from: good logic on September 06, 2024, 05:18:03 PMPeace centi50
You say, quote:
"God is telling the believers if they had a differed they should refer to The Messenger. This means he was not just postman. What I have difficulty in understanding is that the prophet was just a postman. He must have other role as a teacher. But I do reject that his explanation is find in the satanic books of hadiths."

So where are you going to find the messenger explanations then?
Is Qoran not giving you his explanations in: it:"They ask you about...Say: such and such..."?
GOD us giving the explanations in the book/scripture.

Study Qoran and believe GOD s words in it.GOD will teach and explain everything you need to know about how to redeem and save your soul in His scripture. .
GOD bless you.
Peace.


Salam bro,

I believe Quran has explanation but we have to agree there is not just straight forward.

Example is polygamy. Some say polygamy is allowed some say no and some say it allows but with widows who have children.

Here in free minds we have different opinions on what the Quran actually say.

Or maybe the earlier community of Muhammad did know everything on what the Quran commanded and didn't have these many interpretations as we have now even among the Quranist.

I think those earlier community did understand it much more clearer than us.

And needed no explanation coz the prophet could explain it.

Let me again clear. I don't believe the hadirh7is explaining the Quran.

I will settle with the thought that the community of Muhammad and those early years had more understanding of Quran than us.

There are many topics here in the forum that confuses me one of them is polygamy.


good logic

Peace centi50.

You say ,quote:

"Or maybe the earlier community of Muhammad did know everything on what the Quran commanded and didn't have these many interpretations as we have now even among the Quranist.
I think those earlier community did understand it much more clearer than us.
And needed no explanation coz the prophet could explain it."

Brother,every generation disputed and debated what Qoran said.
Qoran says to seek more knowledge, to keep studying and improving our understanding which means the journey will be ongoing and there will always be more questions about grasping Qoran.

Also GOD s role is made clear in Qoran .i,e He is the main teacher and explainer to the sincere heart and mind according to His knowledge /test of people.

There will always be differences and various interpretations. One can only do their best ,use their own faculties and keep trying to learn more ,persevere.
Do your best with what GOD gave you, be GOD conscious and seek GOD s help continuously . Implore Him for all your concerns and doubts.
It is more about how one leads their life , staying on the straight path is the most important task to get right.
For example, it does not matter what opinions say about polygamy. Qoran says it is better to marry only one to be able to be fair and just. So follow the best path indicated and keep on searching and learning.

GOD knows what you are going through, your honesty and effort to follow His scripture as best you can.

Even ,if others explain to you all the things you are confused about ,you still have to do your own checking and come to your own understanding conclusion.
GOD bless you.
Peace..
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

centi50

Quote from: good logic on September 07, 2024, 03:28:39 PMPeace centi50.

You say ,quote:

"Or maybe the earlier community of Muhammad did know everything on what the Quran commanded and didn't have these many interpretations as we have now even among the Quranist.
I think those earlier community did understand it much more clearer than us.
And needed no explanation coz the prophet could explain it."

Brother,every generation disputed and debated what Qoran said.
Qoran says to seek more knowledge, to keep studying and improving our understanding which means the journey will be ongoing and there will always be more questions about grasping Qoran.

Also GOD s role is made clear in Qoran .i,e He is the main teacher and explainer to the sincere heart and mind according to His knowledge /test of people.

There will always be differences and various interpretations. One can only do their best ,use their own faculties and keep trying to learn more ,persevere.
Do your best with what GOD gave you, be GOD conscious and seek GOD s help continuously . Implore Him for all your concerns and doubts.
It is more about how one leads their life , staying on the straight path is the most important task to get right.
For example, it does not matter what opinions say about polygamy. Qoran says it is better to marry only one to be able to be fair and just. So follow the best path indicated and keep on searching and learning.

GOD knows what you are going through, your honesty and effort to follow His scripture as best you can.

Even ,if others explain to you all the things you are confused about ,you still have to do your own checking and come to your own understanding conclusion.
GOD bless you.
Peace..


Salam bro,

You said it's better to marry one, so you can be fair and just. So one is recommended? but u can marry more if U can be just. In another part of the Quran it's says man can never been just.

It seems its a contradiction to 4:3 which call for more than one unless the marry in 4:3 means marry off and mathan, thulatha and Ruba does not mean 2,3 and 4.


I have read so many views in here untill my head spins.

What is your take on polygamy. Is it prohibited or allowed under certain circumstances.

God bless

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: centi50 on September 06, 2024, 12:17:40 PMSalam bro,

An-Nisa' 4:59
O you who have believed, obey Allāh and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allāh and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allāh and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.
Salaam,

"Hearken," meaning to give respectful attention, is closer in meaning. He didn't merely quote the Qur'an; he also used it to rule and advise, as seen in the case of the wealthy man's inheritance and his daughter.

Hadith is similar to history, much like the accounts of Alexander the Great written centuries after his death, often containing embellishment, propaganda, and bias. The most widely circulated stories are usually the most questionable, as seen in modern conflicts like Gaza, where narratives are shaped by the 'spin' they're trying to promote. Similarly, the most widely narrated Hadiths include:

Hadith al-Thaqalayn (The Two Weighty Things): "I am leaving among you two weighty things: the Book of Allah and my Ahl al-Bayt (family)."

Hadith al-Isra wal-Mi'raj (The Night Journey): Negotiating 50 daily prayers down to 5.

good logic

Peace centi50.

According to your own understanding of the verses, what do you think Qoran is saying to you?

That is how I tackle Qoran first. Of course you can compare with other interpretations and choose the best that agrees with your own conclusion or keep on hold.

Now, according to my own understanding of Qoran on marriage, it is giving options and advising the best ways.

These are the options:
Adults who have reached maturity/age of responsibility should marry  with consent of both families and an agreement from both partners.
Or . be patient if you cannot afford to and prepare for it . Do it when  ready financially and mentally/emotionally...

Qoran says to be fair and just , one partner is better. It is easier to agree/communicate/run a united family with one spouse. The more wives(or the more husbands also) the more complicated life will be

Remember marriage needs securities and rules to work. Both partners work /contribute to marriage. To be secure financially, mentally and serious /honest/ respectful of the agreements/rules.

Don t you think marriage will be complex and more difficult to manage if one adds more partners?

Qoran is not telling us to marry or stay celibate or marry two three or four  wives.
 
Qoran is saying it is better for adults to marry( and you can only be more/better fair /just with only one partner) and bring up your family with GOD s system/ways/straight path or follow your whims if you choose to.GOD has given us the freedom of choice and never forces anything on us.

So ,what do you want to do yourself? Read the verses, analyse and compare with what others say and choose according to your own conclusion brother.
Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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centi50

Quote from: good logic on September 08, 2024, 07:32:55 AMPeace centi50.

According to your understanding of the verses, what do you think Qoran is saying to you?

That is how I tackle Qoran first. Of course, you can compare with other interpretations and choose the best that agrees with your conclusion or keep it on hold.

Now, according to my understanding of Qoran on marriage, it is giving options and advising the best ways.

These are the options:
Adults who have reached maturity/age of responsibility should marry with the consent of both families and an agreement from both partners.
Or . be patient if you cannot afford to and prepare for it. Do it when ready financially and mentally/emotionally...

Qoran says to be fair and just, one partner is better. It is easier to agree/communicate/run a united family with one spouse. The more wives(or the more husbands also) the more complicated life will be

Remember marriage needs securities and rules to work. Both partners work /contribute to marriage. To be secure financially, mentally and seriously/honestly/ respectful of the agreements/rules.

Do t you think marriage will be complex and more difficult to manage if one adds more partners?

Qoran is not telling us to marry or stay celibate or marry two, three, or four wives.
 
Qoran is saying adults should marry ( and you can only be more/better fair /just with only one partner) and bring up your family with GOD's system/ways/straight path or follow your whims if you choose to.GOD has given us the freedom of choice and never forces anything on us.

So, what do you want to do yourself? Read the verses, analyse and compare with what others say and choose according to your conclusion brother.
Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
>:D


Salam bro,

I believe that polygamy has strict conditions that it must be for taking care of orphans. To marry the widow who has children to help.


But there is one verse I just don't know how to reconcile it with polygamy.



An-Nur 24:32

وَأَنكِحُوا۟ ٱلْأَيَٰمَىٰ مِنكُمْ وَٱلصَّٰلِحِينَ مِنْ عِبَادِكُمْ وَإِمَآئِكُمْۚ إِن يَكُونُوا۟ فُقَرَآءَ يُغْنِهِمُ ٱللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِۦۗ وَٱللَّهُ وَٰسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ


And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allāh will enrich them with His bounty, and Allāh is all-encompassing and Knowing.

I am confused by the above verse. I take that we should marry only the single.

Now, if a woman marries a married man, she is breaking this commandment as it says married the single.


Unless here the the world Ankihu means to marry off and not marry

Another verse which makes my head hurt is

Is 4:129


An-Nisa' 4:129

وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُوٓا۟ أَن تَعْدِلُوا۟ بَيْنَ ٱلنِّسَآءِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْۖ فَلَا تَمِيلُوا۟ كُلَّ ٱلْمَيْلِ فَتَذَرُوهَا كَٱلْمُعَلَّقَةِۚ وَإِن تُصْلِحُوا۟ وَتَتَّقُوا۟ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا


And you will never be able to be equal [in feeling] between wives, even if you should strive [to do so]. So do not incline completely [toward one] and leave another hanging.[1] And if you amend [your affairs] and fear Allāh - then indeed, Allāh is ever Forgiving and Merciful.


This verse is like contradicting 4:3 if I take 4:3 as a license of polygamy.

Or here Allah is referring to emotional just. As a human being, there is a tendency to love one more than the other, and it's about emotional just.


And what is mathna, thutha ruba. This can not mean one two and three. Maybe by twos by threes or two by two.

But If it means two by two three by three and four by four can it be you can have 4 wives or 6 wives or 8 wives.

Am so much confused

To tell you the truth I don't know the Quran says in regard to this topic.

Other members input will be appreciated also

God bless



Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: centi50 on September 08, 2024, 10:45:24 AMUnless here the the world Ankihu means to marry off and not marry

And what is mathna, thutha ruba. This can not mean one two and three. Maybe by twos by threes or two by two.

Salam,

4:3
twosome (paired) and three and four (all masculine)
so if fear you (pl.) that not thou equitable/justly ye of
fawāĥidatan/so unified (f) or what entrust right hands yours


address is the community likewise see 9 instances

2:213 'ummatan wāĥidatan - community unified or single (f)

34:46 say solely I advise you biwāĥidatin/in single (thought)
that thou stand ye of to God mathná/twosome and individually

28:27 said indeed I want that 'An 'Unkiĥaka

Work arrangement for those without the means to marry.
Similar to the Torah where Jacob marries Leah and Rachel.

centi50

Quote from: Bajram Hoxhaj on September 09, 2024, 03:31:44 AMSalam,

4:3
twosome (paired) and three and four (all masculine)
so if fear you (pl.) that not thou equitable/justly ye of
fawāĥidatan/so unified (f) or what entrust right hands yours


address is the community likewise see 9 instances

2:213 'ummatan wāĥidatan - community unified or single (f)

34:46 say solely I advise you biwāĥidatin/in single (thought)
that thou stand ye of to God mathná/twosome and individually

28:27 said indeed I want that 'An 'Unkiĥaka

Work arrangement for those without the means to marry.
Similar to the Torah where Jacob marries Leah and Rachel.

Salam bro,

What is addressing the community? For community to do what?

Can you translate the whole verse.

For men to marry twosome?

Please can you explain sell

God bless