News:

About us: a forum for monotheists, and discussion of Islam based on The Quran

Main Menu

Slavery: Why does the Quran not issue a direct prohibition on slavery?

Started by ths, July 05, 2024, 01:01:28 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: Wakas on July 11, 2024, 06:31:31 PMStill seems contradictory. For your view to hold:

1) drb al riqab is an unevidenced/baseless idiom
2) seems to contradict
3) requires an unusual translation of "shuddu al wathaq"
4) seemingly ignores cross-reference of shuddu which requires a pre-existing thing to strengthen

No thanks. I'll stick with my understanding.

1. Put forth the necks (?)
Good luck with that explanation.

Salaam

Wakas

peace,

Quote from: Bajram Hoxhaj on July 12, 2024, 04:13:14 PM1. Put forth the necks (?)
Good luck with that explanation.


Not sure why you translate it as necks when in your own translation you take it as "prisoners". Necks in your translation would make yours even worse.

In any case as I have already mentioned above it doesn't mean necks in Quran.

And explained above also:

By "bring forth the captives" I take "bring forth" to mean the same I do for mathal/example. When an example is put forth, or shown forth, or propounded, or cited, or brought about, it is brought from non-existence to existence or from non-attention to attention.
In other words captives are brought about, or more simply, as you put it "take captives".
Hence why I said, quote: "One meaning of DaRaBa found in Lane's Lexicon is "he made or caused to be or constituted" which is similar to the suggested meaning discussed above."

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: Wakas on July 12, 2024, 06:34:08 PMBy "bring forth the captives" I take "bring forth" to mean the same I do for mathal/example. When an example is put forth, or shown forth, or propounded, or cited, or brought about, it is brought from non-existence to existence or from non-attention to attention.
In other words captives are brought about, or more simply, as you put it "take captives".
Hence why I said, quote: "One meaning of DaRaBa found in Lane's Lexicon is "he made or caused to be or constituted" which is similar to the suggested meaning discussed above."

Salaam,

How to bring forth "the captives", not bind them?
Back then a single captive could take 1-2 guards.

The Battle of Firaz. Khalid ibn al-Waleed wipes out an army 10x his size.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj4KpbVyNn8

Likewise Lane's (ضرب)

... And ضَرَبْتُ عُنُقَهُ [I smote his neck, meaning I beheaded him]; and الأَعْنَاقَ ↓ ضَرَّبْتُ [I smote the necks, meaning I struck off the heads]; the teshdeed denoting muchness [of the action] or multiplicity [of the objects]: AZ says that, when the object is one, the Arabs use only the former verb, without teshdeed; but when there is a plurality of objects, either of the verbs; (Msb;) [so that] one says, ضَرَبُوا أَعْنَاقَهُمْ [They smote their necks, or beheaded them], and أَمَرَ الرِّقَابِ ↓ بِتَضْرِيبِ [He gave the order to smite the necks, or to strike off the heads]: (A:) فَضَرْبَ الرِّقَابِ in the Kur xlvii. 4 is originally فَاضْرِبُوا الرِّقَابَ ضَرْبًا [meaning Then do ye smite the necks, i. e. strike off the heads]; (Bd;) the inf. n. being here put for its verb. (Jel.) [Respecting the phrase هُوَ الْيَضْرِبُكَ, see 1 in art. جدع.]
...

ضَرَبَ عَنْهُ (assumed tropical:) He turned away a person or thing from him [or it]; as also ↓ اضرب : (TA:) [or] عنه ↓ اضرب signifies, (S, Msb,) or signifies also, (TA,) and (Msb, TA) so does ضَرَبَ عنه, (Msb, K, TA,) [the latter app. for ضَرَبَ نَفْسَهُ عَنْهُ,] (assumed tropical:) He turned away from, avoided, shunned, or left, him, or it; (S * Msb, K * TA; *) namely, a person, (TA,) or a thing. (Msb.) أَفَنَضْرِبُ عَنْكُمُ الذِّكْرَ صَفْحًا, in the Kur [xliii. 4], is said to mean (assumed tropical:) Shall we then neglect you, and not teach you what is incumbent on you? the phrase being taken from a rider's striking his beast with his stick when he desires to turn him from the course that he is pursuing: or the meaning is, (assumed tropical:) shall we then turn away the Kuran from you, and not invite you thereby to the faith, turning away ourselves from you? (TA.) One says also, ضَرَبْتُ عَنْهُ صَفْحًا meaning (assumed tropical:) I turned away from him and left him.
...

ضَرَبَ مَثَلًا (S, A, O, &c.) (tropical:) He rehearsed, propounded, or declared, a parable, a similitude, an example, or a proverb; said of God [and of a man]: (S, * O, * Msb, TA:) or he mentioned, or set forth, a parable, &c.: or he framed a parable: thus expl., the verb has but one objective complement: or the phrase signifies he made [such a thing] an example, or the subject of a parable or similitude &c.; and so has two objective complements: in the saying in the Kur [xxxvi. 12] وَاضْرِبْ لَهُمْ مَثَلًا أَصْحَابَ الْقَرْيَةِ (assumed tropical:) [And propound thou to them a parable, the people of the town] i. e., the story of the people of the town, [or make thou to them a parable, or similitude, or an example, the people of the town;] مثلا may be in the accus. case as an objective complement, اضحاب القرية being a substitute for مثلا; or اصحاب القرية may be regarded as a second objective complement [i. e. second in the order of the words, but first in the order of the sense]: the phrase is differently expl. on account of the different meanings of the verb ضَرَبَ; which signifies he described, or rehearsed; and he declared, propounded, or explained; and he made, caused to be, or constituted; &c.; accord. to some, it is taken from the phrase ضَرَبَ الدِرْهَمَ [q. v.]; because of the impression which a parable or the like makes upon the mind: accord. to some, from ضَرِيبٌ signifying " a like; " because the first thing is made like the second: accord. to some, from ضَرَبَ الطِّينَ عَلَى الجِدَارِ [q. v.; because the mud, applied as a plaster, conforms to the shape of the wall]: and accord. to some, from ضَرَبَ الخَاتَمَ [q. v.]; because of the correspondence between a parable or the like and the object to which it is applied, and the correspondence between the signet and its impression. (TA, from the M and L &c.) يَضْرِبُ اللّٰهُ الْحَقَّ وَالْباطِلَ, in the Kur [xiii. 18], means (assumed tropical:) God likeneth, or compareth, truth and falsity. (TA.) One says also, ضَرَبَ بِهِ مَثَلًا (assumed tropical:) [He made him, or it, a subject of a parable, a similitude, an example, or a proverb; he propounded, or framed, a parable, &c., respecting him, or it].
...

اضرب signifies also (tropical:) He was silent; he spoke not: or he lowered his eyes, looking towards the ground