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'S J D ' with clarity - indeed not Prostration

Started by jkhan, January 23, 2024, 11:26:08 PM

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jkhan

I wish everyone get guided with what is right.. I have explained Masjid as Sanctuary but with deep meaning of state of acknowledgement..

jkhan



Some are convinced that SJD is physically prostrating to Allah like shown in the picture and bringing the verse which is states that HudHuda found those people prostrating to the SUN...  Did hudhuda indeed find them Physicaly prostrating to the sun like picture depicts ?..  In fact impossible ... No sun worshiping community in the past or now physically prostrate like the picture depicts... Sunworshipers have many of their own rituals and it differs region to region.. To show homage to the sun they practice them..for example sacrifices of animals or even human .. Chanting..  Immersing in sacred waters...  Various bodily postures..
So my question is how hudhud found them Physically prostrating alone while they have various rituals...?  Indeed HudHuda found them ACKNOWLEDGING /HONORING the Sun thus accepted the sun as god instead of Allah... That's what HudHuda found...
Bring me any anceint tradition where they physically prostrate to the sun as in picture here.. No one prostrates to the sun like that...

jkhan

Salam...
I know almost all conventional Muslims and even most of those who take Quran alone do physically prostrate .... So  pls raise your objections to this understanding of mine.. Perhaps we can have better grip of these verses..  Constructive criticism helps a lot look for absolute truth.. 
So those who don't have the similar understanding pls cast your valid point... Let's seek guidance...

Salam..

jkhan

 My concerns regarding SJD / physical prostration when it comes to conventional way...
1...Why SJD is physically prostrated directing ones body only towards Kaaba in Mecca ?
2.. While everything on Heavens and Earth SJD to Allah willingly or unwillingly...
3 ... Kaaba was raised at certain point of time in history,  but everything SJD to Allah from the beginning void of Kaaba...
4... If everything SJD to Allah so do I and so even evil men and Jin literally everything... But I don't SJD directing my body to Kaaba in Mecca.. So what SJD I do according Allah since He manifestly claims everything SJD to Allah... How can one say I don't SJD to Allah just cuz I don't physically prostrate towards Mecca while Allah claims everything SJD ?
5... If SJD means physical Prostration to Allah Alone then why would Malika were commanded to SJD to our father Adam and to depict and bringforth what by doing SJD / physical prostration to a human?  So it clearly indicates SJD is not merely done to Allah cuz SJD done to Adam..
6...So.. SJD can be performed to Allah and even Adam upon command but SJD to the Sun or Moon is restricted?
It clearly indicates that this SJD obviosly has intent why one does SJD...
7... if everything SJD to Allah,  why would Iblees refuse to SJD to Adam while iblees SJD to Allah.. Indeed Iblees SJD to Allah since everything SJD to Allah.. But clear refusal to SJD to Adam.. So logically ponder,  If SJD is physically prostrating then Iblees not refusing to physically prostrate to Allah but refused to physically prostrate to Adam... Is that the reality?
That's not the truth... Reality is word SJD is manipulated by a religion called Islam founded by later generation after Mohamed..
Let's apply SJD / acknowledge (honor)  to all above concerns.. Indeed SJD means acknowledgement and it is just a word and had nothing specific.. You can use to any sort of acknowledgement...
Malika were commanded to acknowledge to Adam... But refused Iblees while Iblees acknowledge Allah but a specific command from Allah was refused.. The Sun and Moon are creations of Allah you can acknowledge but you can't acknowledge the sun and moon as Deities with intent.. Malika didn't acknowledge Adam as deity but Malika acknowledged the remarkable and an elite Creation (Human) of Allah .. Not refused..
Everything acknowledges Allah cuz everything uses Allah's magnificence.. That's why Allah used willingly or unwillingly...  They don't directly acknowledge but they do but believers and rest of Allah's creatures directly and willingly acknowledge /honor.. Not everything physically prostrate.. Nonsensical...
 SJD every thing does but SABIH (glorify) Allah cannot be done by everything but by those who indeed fear can and would willingly but we have no capacity to understand them..

17:44

"The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt(SABIH) Him. And there is not a thing except that it exalts by His Majesty, but you do not understand their exalting. Indeed, He is ever Forbearing and Forgiving"

Well.. Similarly everything SURRENDER (ASLAMA)  to Allah..
3:83

"So is it other than the Direction (Deen) of Allah they desire, while to Him have Surrendered / submitted (ASLAMA) those within the heavens and earth, willingly or by compulsion, and to Him they will be returned?"

All in all we all involved in SJD (Acknowledging) and ASLAM (surrender /submit) and Exalting (Sabih) the Majesty of Allah but who is willingly with intent doing is what matters.. Cuz no one can escape from SJD,  ASLAM and SABIH.. Everything does cuz we use God's earth and heavens and naturally we do... But most on earth don't do these three aspects willingly...


jkhan

Salam...
Still I am insisting with Quran verses in order that QURAN verses may give you perfect meaning... I already explained these two verses but would like to bring both together to reflect...

BELIEVERS : "when the Quran is recited to them they SJD"

DISBELIEVERS  : "when the Quran is recited to them they don't SJD"


So,  what makes you think and decide that SJD = physical prostration....? Foes that really make sense for you... Remember folks these are actual statements from Allah... BELIEVER SJD and DISBELIEVER doeant SJD.. when?  Yes when Quran is recited to them... Reflect people and raise your objections pr support what you do buy with Quran... Let Quran prevail.. And not our views..

jkhan

Quote from: jkhan on February 12, 2024, 07:58:52 PMSalam...
Still I am insisting with Quran verses in order that QURAN verses may give you perfect meaning... I already explained these two verses but would like to bring both together to reflect...

BELIEVERS : "when the Quran is recited to them they SJD"

DISBELIEVERS  : "when the Quran is recited to them they don't SJD"


So,  what makes you think and decide that SJD = physical prostration....? Does that really make sense for you... Remember folks these are actual statements from Allah... BELIEVER SJD and DISBELIEVER doeant SJD.. when?  Yes when Quran is recited to them... Reflect people and raise your objections pr support what you do buy with Quran... Let Quran prevail.. And not our views..

Salam...
So...  What exactly BELIEVERS SJD and DISBELIEVERS not SJD when Quran is recited? 
Well.. Absolute truth is when the Quran is RECITED BELIEVERS reflect and they realize and they not deny the verses of Allah and eventually they ACKNOWLEDGE /SJD...
on the other hand,  when the Quran verses are recited to or heard or read by DISBELIVERS they deny it some after knowing it is truth and others neglect outright thus refusing to ACKNOWLEDGE /SJD out of their arrogance and ignorance too..

Who wants any DISBELIEVER  to physically prostrate when Quran is recited to them regardless of language proficiency... Suppose if Quran is recited it arabic to a disbeliever whose language is other than Arabic,  do you want them to physically prostrate for jist hearing the sound? Nope.. Allah never meant such stupid claims by His verses..
All Allah meant for Arabs and those who knew arabic  of those days when Quran was read to listen and reflect so that they can acknowledge the truth.... That's what BELIEVERS did for that matter...
But what's happening now with all Sunni or shia or any group of Muslims... Yes.. They don't ACKNOWLEDGE / SJD when Quran is recited to them... All they say is not enough and we have to look in Hadith books for further clarifications...they don't SJD hearing the verses of Allah.. But they definitely SJD Physically not hearing the recital of Quran but according to Hadith... Cuz this physical prostration is indeed an invention by those who invented this religion called Islam.. How can Islam be a religion while no one in the past took Islam as religion while Messengers came with Islam / System or mechanism only... Cuz it was never a religion.. Bht this new group made it a religion and their own religion too..

I have presented my comprehensive understanding and I can't convince anyone and I don't want to.  But ponder within Quran.  .

good logic

Peace jkhan.

Just like "Salat", "The Salat" and "Aquimi Salat" have different meanings, "SJD" and "Khara SJD" also have different meanings according to the context of the verses.

Some I agree with your take on them and others I disagree.
Here is one example with context that I disagree with you on:

Proclaim, "Believe in it, or do not believe in it." Those who possess knowledge from the previous scriptures, when it is recited to them, they fall down to their chins, Sujada.
قُل ءامِنوا بِهِ أَو لا تُؤمِنوا إِنَّ الَّذينَ أوتُوا العِلمَ مِن قَبلِهِ إِذا يُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم يَخِرّونَ لِلأَذقانِ سُجَّدًا
They say, "Glory be to our Lord. This fulfills our Lord's prophecy."
وَيَقولونَ سُبحٰنَ رَبِّنا إِن كانَ وَعدُ رَبِّنا لَمَفعولًا
They fall down on their chins, weeping, for it augments their reverence.
وَيَخِرّونَ لِلأَذقانِ يَبكونَ وَيَزيدُهُم خُشوعًا

When they fall Sujada they say...etc and weep in reverence. This is something physical - prostration-.

Qoran is there to ponder individually and  for each to get their own interpretation, it is not necessary for you and me and others to agree on one translation .
It does not matter who agrees with who, it matters that each seek a sincere submission to the creator for guidance ,then it is a journey. May be we can all meet some agreements on the way there.
What is wrong with physical prostration out of reverence as a mean of connection to the creator ?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

jkhan

Quote from: good logic on February 15, 2024, 08:45:18 AMPeace jkhan.

Just like "Salat", "The Salat" and "Aquimi Salat" have different meanings, "SJD" and "Khara SJD" also have different meanings according to the context of the verses.

Some I agree with your take on them and others I disagree.
Here is one example with context that I disagree with you on:

Proclaim, "Believe in it, or do not believe in it." Those who possess knowledge from the previous scriptures, when it is recited to them, they fall down to their chins, Sujada.
قُل ءامِنوا بِهِ أَو لا تُؤمِنوا إِنَّ الَّذينَ أوتُوا العِلمَ مِن قَبلِهِ إِذا يُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم يَخِرّونَ لِلأَذقانِ سُجَّدًا
They say, "Glory be to our Lord. This fulfills our Lord's prophecy."
وَيَقولونَ سُبحٰنَ رَبِّنا إِن كانَ وَعدُ رَبِّنا لَمَفعولًا
They fall down on their chins, weeping, for it augments their reverence.
وَيَخِرّونَ لِلأَذقانِ يَبكونَ وَيَزيدُهُم خُشوعًا

When they fall Sujada they say...etc and weep in reverence. This is something physical - prostration-.

Qoran is there to ponder individually and  for each to get their own interpretation, it is not necessary for you and me and others to agree on one translation .
It does not matter who agrees with who, it matters that each seek a sincere submission to the creator for guidance ,then it is a journey. May be we can all meet some agreements on the way there.
What is wrong with physical prostration out of reverence as a mean of connection to the creator ?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thank you my lovely brother..
I know your faith very well.. You know why I'm saying so..
But all I have to say is read the verses which you have taken as physical and I have clarified from my end in this topic Kharra verses.. In case you missed..
And again I don't compel you not SJD physically.. But Allah has clarified in His Quran what exactly He meant by SJD,  so try to reach the meaning what Allah meant..
Definitley yo true believer Guidance of Allah will reach fully and never they be misguided.. Work hard My lovely brother to achieve it...
Allah's guidance is THE  guidance.. And He knows who is guided aright and who astray.. So all these personal stuff between one's Lord and himself..
Thank you

good logic

Brother jkhan.

Falling prostrate ,weeping is an instinct in all believers . Don t you think that acknowledgement to GOD s words of truth comes in physical form as well?
Somewhere in our journey of submitting to the creator comes reverence of a big scale and connecting to GOD is both physical and mental/spiritual/in works...

Strange how prostration in awe of GOD s Aayats always leads to eyes overflowing with emotion: In prostration, weeping:

These are some of the prophets whom God blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall Sujada/ prostrate, weeping.
أُولٰئِكَ الَّذينَ أَنعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِم مِنَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ مِن ذُرِّيَّةِ ءادَمَ وَمِمَّن حَمَلنا مَعَ نوحٍ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبرٰهيمَ وَإِسرٰءيلَ وَمِمَّن هَدَينا وَاجتَبَينا إِذا تُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم ءايٰتُ الرَّحمٰنِ خَرّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا

Like I said I also agree with some of your take on SJD in other verses with different contexts..
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

jkhan

Brother GL..
Salam my fellow believer...
As I stated earlier Kharra verses I have clarified... It seems you have not grasped my explanation or you understood my explanation but not in a position to get why it can't be physical... Well..  I was in a conundrum why it can't be physical but up until God's clarification reached me...
So my lovely brother it has to reach to you from Allah to get it right.. Until then keep reflecting.. You know GL I have a best friend.. Such a wonderful human being...  We have real debate about physical prostration...  He is utterly convinced SJD is physically prostrating and he keeps reiterating to me to physically prostrate.. He follows Quran alone...  But God's path is clear in Quran.. Trust me.. It will reach to all believers if they seek truly... Guidance of Allah won't come all at once but gradually... Wasn't there a time I could even think of calling SJD not physical... Well.. In front of Allahs path we leave falsehood without feeling shame..
So.. I won't reiterate you lovely brother..  Cuz I know how good a person you are.  Just explore all SJD verses for couple of days and beg for truth and be neutral and leave it to Allah to guide and choose... You know brother accepting and leaving all habits are not damn easy...  It takes mammoth leap to do so... I am sure Allah will convince you... Did you hear what I said, "Allah will convince you " about SJD...

Note :: Ask to yourself how many times you weeped while reading Quran and specially when understood first time something in correct way... And you immediately left old understanding..yes that's SJD and weeping. .. That's humbling and SJD...

As a person who believes I clarified what God has guided me with... And I know until guidance reach it is not easy to understand me... So I am patient with my fellow believers who seek...