Verse 24:31 - revealing beauty

[smckee]

OK, so what do you think zeenah refers to?

[brook]

In 24:31 and 24:60 zeenah refers to the jewelry the women are wearing.

[Euphoric]

In 24:31 zeenah and awrah are the same in meaning:

Untrue, they are different in meanings and application. You're  translating the verses wrong.

عَوْرَة is context based.

https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D8%B9%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9/

عَوْرَة
- A failure to come up to a standard - blemish; defect; fault; imperfection; incompleteness

عَوْرَة
- genitals; loins; pudenda; genitalia


Zeena is something that you add on to make it beautiful https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D8%B2%D9%8A%D9%86%D8%A9/

- Making things beautiful by adding decorations
- All that makes up the general appearance
- Putting on your best clothes for a special occasion
- Something used to decorate or the act of adorning
- adornment; decor; decoration; ornament; embellishment; garnish; vanity

زِينَة
- Noun gerund of verb to primp
- Putting on attractive clothes for a certain occaasion
- Putting on your best clothes for a special occasion
- adoring ; dressing up; adorning; grooming; primping; prink; toilet

[brook]

You can prove your view basing it on a dictionary
while others can prove the oppsite view basing it on the same dictionary.
That is why I based my view on the Quran,
that is why I said in 24:31 zeenah and awraat are the same in meaning
and I referred to 33:13.

Will you please answer the question, instead, which I put to the believing women:

It is said that your zeenah are parts of your body such as your bosom and belly
and that you are permitted to reveal them to your male attendants who are not in need (غير أولي الإربة).
Would YOU reveal your body to your male attendants who are not in need? 

[smckee]

How do you know that zeenah only refers to the bosoms and belly?

[l-nuni]

peace,

In verse 24:31, 'عَوْرَت' refers to nakedness in the feminine plural form, without the alif in the oldest scripts.

In verse 33:13, 'عَوْرَة' also nakedness, signifying defenselessness, and is used in the feminine singular form.

There are six transitions after each 'and/wa' that people overlook. It's not about teenage girls and women being allowed to expose their furūjahunna (intimate parts) to male relatives, et al, which would clearly contradict (23:6, 70:30). The instruction is NOT to disclose 'their adornment,' for example, through thin clothing, undergarments, etc. The exception is for male and female relatives, children unaware of women's nakedness, and those under their patronage, like orphans—part of mā malakat 'aymānuhunna is also applicable when they are grown. There is no need to 'suckle' boys or marry off girls when they reach puberty.

[brook]

How do you know that zeenah only refers to the bosoms and belly?

I said such as, I did not say only.

What is more, the act of revealing mentioned in ولا يبدين زينتهن is deliberate.
That is, the believing woman reveals her زينته only to, say, her own male attendants without need,
she is not allowed to reveal them to other people's attendants.
He may most likely assume that she is willing to sleep with her (if her زينته are parts of her body such as her bosom).

[smckee]

Revealing the zeenah is not necessarily deliberate. It can be done for bathing, swimming, changing, breastfeeding, etc. And verses 70:30 and 23:6 talk about guarding one's chastity form illegal sexual intercourse.

[brook]

An-Nûr 60 (Muhammad Asad):
And women advanced in years, who who no longer feel any sexual desire,
incur no sin if they discard their garments,
provided that they do not aim at a showy display of their charms (متبرجات بزينة )...

Charms = zeenah 
What are those almost bedridden women's charms,
what are their zeenah?

[Euphoric]

You have not proved anything except give wrong meanings to words in English. That is not Quran.

The Arabic is plain and straightforward, it does not agree with your wrong translations.

Please provide actual proof from reliable sources and not wrong translations.

You can prove your view basing it on a dictionary
while others can prove the oppsite view basing it on the same dictionary.
That is why I based my view on the Quran,
that is why I said in 24:31 zeenah and awraat are the same in meaning
and I referred to 33:13.

Will you please answer the question, instead, which I put to the believing women:

It is said that your zeenah are parts of your body such as your bosom and belly
and that you are permitted to reveal them to your male attendants who are not in need (غير أولي الإربة).
Would YOU reveal your body to your male attendants who are not in need?