Verse 24:31 - revealing beauty

[smckee]

It all depends on public (outside the house) vs. private (inside the house among close family).

[brook]

It all depends on what the believing women's zeenah  زينتهن  are.

[brook]

The small children who have no idea of the woomen's zeenah (الطفل الذين لم يظهروا على عورات النساء) are public, that is they are other people's children, yet there is no harm in the women's displaying their zeenah to them. On the other hand the children mentioned in 24:58, 59 are private, that is they are the family's own children, yet the mother is not allowed to display her zeenah (her naked body) to them.   

[smckee]

This verse has to do with witnessing sex, though.

[Euphoric]

Peace

The verse is wrongly translated.

Zeena is something that you add on to make it beautiful https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D8%B2%D9%8A%D9%86%D8%A9/

- Making things beautiful by adding decorations
- All that makes up the general appearance
- Putting on your best clothes for a special occasion
- Something used to decorate or the act of adorning
- adornment; decor; decoration; ornament; embellishment; garnish; vanity

زِينَة
- Noun gerund of verb to primp
- Putting on attractive clothes for a certain occaasion
- Putting on your best clothes for a special occasion
- adoring ; dressing up; adorning; grooming; primping; prink; toilet

Peace guys. I was reading verse 24:31 and I was interested in what people here think about this part of said verse:

"And tell the believing women to restrain their looks, and to guard their privates, and not display their beauty except what is apparent thereof, and to draw their coverings over their breasts, and not expose their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, what their right hands possess, their male attendants who have no sexual desires, or children who are not yet aware of the nakedness of women. And they should not strike their feet to draw attention to their hidden beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, so that you may succeed."

What does the bolded portion mean? "Beauty" can't mean necklaces and ornaments as these are often worn in public and yet no one relates them to nakedness. And why would a woman want to be sexually dressed in front of the people listed in the verse? My opinion is that a woman is allowed to be naked in front of her father, mother, daughter, son, brother, etc. This position makes much more sense when you realise that bathing suits and private showers were hard to come by in the past. In fact, modern day bathing suits (including so-called "modest swimwear") would have been considered scandalous back then as well. This verse may also allow women to swim in a private place like a pond or a lake sans clothing without any strange unrelated men harassing them (as often occurs on the beach). What do you guys think? Give your explanations below.

[brook]

In 24:31 zeenah and awrah are the same in meaning:
the believing women should not display زينتهن their zeenah except to
the small children who have no idea of the women's عورات awraat.

And awrah (عورة) is used in 33:13 too:
some believers said that their houses are عورة exposed.
That is, if they go away from home to fight in the cause of islam
their houses will be plundered.

It is obvious,
awrah (zeenah) are vulnerable if they are exposed. 

But the believing women are allowed to expose them to the small children
because the chidren have no idea of the women's awrah.
If you put a gold necklace and a bar of chocolate before them to choose
they prefer the chocolate.

[brook]

The initial part of 24:31 is a repitition of 24:30,
which is about people's genital organs:

Tell the believing men/women to lower (31:19) their gaze and guard their genital organs...

To cut it short,
one's genital organs are the only part of one's body forbidden to be exposed
to anybody other than one's spouse (23:6, 70:30).

[smckee]

Brook, the verse says you cannot reveal your beauty to those except children who have no awareness of sex. Given that phrase, how would one be sexually attracted to ornaments like necklaces and earrings?

[brook]

The verse says الطفل الذين لم يظهروا على عورات النساء
which means the children without awarenes of women's awraat (sing: awrah).
And awrah is what is exposed to harm such as houses during war (33:13).
It has got nothing to do with sex.

Please note that when the sex of the parents is involved
even their own children are not allowed to get nearby, no
matter what age the children are (24:58, 59)

[brook]

The verse does NOT say you cannot reveal your beauty,
it says the believing women should not reveal their zeenah (ولا يبدين زينتهن)
except to their male attendants free of need (غير أولي الإربة)

So it all depends on what the zeenah are.

If they are the beauty of a believing woman's body
she is permitted to reveal her body to her male attendants free of need.
Will she abide by the permission?

I asked them: it is said that your zeenah is your body
and you are permitted to display it to your male attendants free of (sexual) need.
Will you reveal your body?

No.
Why not?
Because what really counts is MY need.
(I need sex).