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Verse 24:31 - revealing beauty

Started by smckee, November 08, 2023, 06:24:35 PM

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smckee

Peace guys. I was reading verse 24:31 and I was interested in what people here think about this part of said verse:

"And tell the believing women to restrain their looks, and to guard their privates, and not display their beauty except what is apparent thereof, and to draw their coverings over their breasts, and not expose their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, what their right hands possess, their male attendants who have no sexual desires, or children who are not yet aware of the nakedness of women. And they should not strike their feet to draw attention to their hidden beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, so that you may succeed."

What does the bolded portion mean? "Beauty" can't mean necklaces and ornaments as these are often worn in public and yet no one relates them to nakedness. And why would a woman want to be sexually dressed in front of the people listed in the verse? My opinion is that a woman is allowed to be naked in front of her father, mother, daughter, son, brother, etc. This position makes much more sense when you realise that bathing suits and private showers were hard to come by in the past. In fact, modern day bathing suits (including so-called "modest swimwear") would have been considered scandalous back then as well. This verse may also allow women to swim in a private place like a pond or a lake sans clothing without any strange unrelated men harassing them (as often occurs on the beach). What do you guys think? Give your explanations below.

Wakas

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

smckee

Hi Wakas. Thanks for the reply. I read your link and it doesn't seem to tell me about the situation in which one is in front of the people listed in the verse. Does it have something to do with the striking of the feet?

Wakas

My understanding is when a woman is in front of those people in bold one is not under an obligation to cover private parts and breasts. Of course they can if they want and modesty is the preference, as is mentioned in that article.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

smckee

Interesting, and I would be inclined to agree. This would mean that bathing, swimming or chores can commence in front of these people if there is a need?

good logic

Greetings.
My understanding from this verse-24:31- is this:
Dress code for believing women to encourage modesty/ morality and discourage immorality

And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity.
They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary.( what is necessary under different situations can mean being practical-)
They shall cover their chests(always) , and shall not relax this dress code in the presence of others.
Exception are the nearest family members cited ,i.e their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. - (They may relax some of this code inside the house or the work place up to a point -chest and private parts have to be covered at all times with company- except where it cannot be helped.- Husbands are a special case  see other verses about this.)
They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to God, O you believers, that you may succeed.*

I see no problem with wearing appropriate clothing for swimming, sports and other uniforms that at least will cover the private parts and chest  since these are under social and work and have a protective environment.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

smckee

Interesting, good_logic. However, I am inclined to disagree based on the translation I'm using. First, I don't believe it talks about relaxing the dress code. Rather, it talks about the exposure of "beauty", or revealing beauty, as the word zeena means. In my view this denotes the rest of the body that would not be permitted to be exposed in public in front of strangers. This is further corroborated by the fact that it talks about male attendants who have no attraction to the opposite sex (eunuchs or homosexuals) or young children who have no conception of nudity (like in a public bathhouse).

good logic

I can see your point.  Of course there are exceptions with those you highlighted .
I am saying there are minimum dress code under normal situations.

I agree overall that it does not mean women should be covered from head to toe like in some interpretations of certain sects .
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

smckee

That makes sense. Peace to you as well. :)

l-nuni

Quote from: Wakas on November 09, 2023, 11:48:29 AM
My understanding is when a woman is in front of those people in bold one is not under an obligation to cover private parts and breasts. Of course they can if they want and modesty is the preference, as is mentioned in that article.

peace,

so she can show her zīnata (vegina?) to all those :)

7:31 take ye zīnata (private parts?) yours near every gathering place

24:31
and say to those believers (f) lower they from gazes theirs
and guarded they furūjahunna (private parts theirs)
and not display zīnata theirs, except what apparent from it
and to striketh they with cover theirs over juyūbihinna (bosoms theirs)
and not display zīnata theirs, except to husbands theirs
or fathers theirs
or fathers husbands theirs
or sons theirs
or sons of husbands theirs
or brothers theirs
or sons brothers theirs
or sons sisters theirs
or womenfolk (female relatives, etc.) theirs
or what entrust right hands theirs
or the attendants other than holders the desire among the menfolk
or the young the ones not cognizant they on private the womenfolk
and not striketh they with feet theirs to revealed what hidden they from zīnata theirs