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Then swallowed him the fish...

Started by TellMeTheTruth, July 16, 2023, 05:31:39 AM

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TellMeTheTruth

Salam!

Dear brothers and sisters! I don't know if it has already been discussed or not.

Reference to the ayah 37:142 of Quran, I found this combination very strange i.e., فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ ٱلْحُوتُ especially the word فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ which is usually translated as It/she swallowed him. My point is that the article اَل (al) is always used with nouns and that is a basic grammar rule in Arabic language. How come it has been used with a VERB? Is there any other similar example?

Please put some light on it and oblige.

[Edited after brother jkhan's comment]

Peace!

jkhan

Quote from: TellMeTheTruth on July 16, 2023, 05:31:39 AM
Salam!

Dear brothers and sisters! I don't know if it has already been discussed or not.

Reference to the ayah 37:142 of Quran, I found this combination very strange i.e., فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ ٱلْحُوتُ especially the word فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ which is usually translated as It/she swallowed him. My point is that the prefix اَل (al-) is always used with nouns and that is a basic grammar rule in Arabic language. How come it has been used with a VERB? Is there any other similar example?

Please put some light on it and oblige.

Peace!

Is there AL prefixed?  Check and verify that first?

TellMeTheTruth

Salam brother jkhan!

Let's break down the combination of Arabic words "فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ ٱلْحُوتُ" and analyze the grammatical rules letter-by-letter:
I apologize for my mistake.
Here's the breakdown of the phrase "فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ ٱلْحُوتُ" (fa'al-taqamahu al-hootu):

فَ (Fa) - The prefix indicating "so" or "then."
ٱلْ (Al) - "ٱلْ" (Al) is not a prefix but rather the definite article "ال" (al) in Arabic. It functions as the equivalent of "the" in English and is used before nouns to indicate specificity.
تَ (Ta) - The prefix indicating the second person singular masculine present tense.
قَمَ (Qama) - The verb stem meaning "to swallow" or "to eat."
هُ (Hu) - The pronoun "he" referring to the subject.
ٱلْ (Al) - The definite article.
حُوتُ (Hootu) - The noun meaning "whale/fish." (masculine)

Thank you for pointing it out!

Peace!

jkhan

Quote from: TellMeTheTruth on July 16, 2023, 06:08:30 AM
Salam brother jkhan!

Let's break down the combination of Arabic words "فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ ٱلْحُوتُ" and analyze the grammatical rules letter-by-letter:
I apologize for my mistake.
Here's the breakdown of the phrase "فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ ٱلْحُوتُ" (fa'al-taqamahu al-hootu):

فَ (Fa) - The prefix indicating "so" or "then."
ٱلْ (Al) - "ٱلْ" (Al) is not a prefix but rather the definite article "ال" (al) in Arabic. It functions as the equivalent of "the" in English and is used before nouns to indicate specificity.
تَ (Ta) - The prefix indicating the second person singular masculine present tense.
قَمَ (Qama) - The verb stem meaning "to swallow" or "to eat."
هُ (Hu) - The pronoun "he" referring to the subject.
ٱلْ (Al) - The definite article.
حُوتُ (Hootu) - The noun meaning "whale/fish." (masculine)

Thank you for pointing it out!

Peace!

Peace..
Unless I horribly got this wrong, as far as I think.. The verb itself starts with Lam...
For example read 7:115 onwards... Note word Alkiy / throw.. Why you take Kama instead lakama

TellMeTheTruth

I cannot ignore the Alif. It is noted as "lotaqama" but I think it is not correct.

فَ   فاء استئنافية                  
ٱلْتَقَمَ   فعل   ماض   صيغة ٨   الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد   
هُ   ضمير متصل         الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد   
fa   Resumption fa                  
{lotaqama   Verb   Perfect   8th form   3rd person   Masculine   Singular   
hu   Pronoun suffix         3rd person   Masculine   Singular   


I have found a few more similar examples where Al ال is used with verbs e.g.:

فَٱلْتَقَطَهُۥٓ [28:8]
فَ   فاء استئنافية                  
ٱلْتَقَطَ   فعل   ماض   صيغة ٨   الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد   
هُۥٓ   ضمير متصل         الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد
fa   Resumption fa                  
{lotaqaTa   Verb   Perfect   8th form   3rd person   Masculine   Singular   
hu,^   Pronoun suffix         3rd person   Masculine   Singular   


فَٱلْتَقَى[54:12]
فَ   فاء استئنافية                  
ٱلْتَقَى   فعل   ماض   صيغة ٨   الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد
fa   Resumption fa                  
{lotaqaY   Verb   Perfect   8th form   3rd person   Masculine   Singular   


فَٱلْتَمِسُوا۟ [57:13]
فَ   فاء عطف                  
ٱلْتَمِسُ   فعل   أمر   صيغة ٨   الشخص الثاني   مذكر   جمع   
وا۟   ضمير متصل         الشخص الثاني   مذكر   جمع:
fa   Conjunctive fa                  
{lotamisu   Verb   Imperative   8th form   2nd person   Masculine   Plural   
wA@   Pronoun suffix         2nd person   Masculine   Plural   


NOTE:
The verb mentioned in 7:115 i.e., تُلْقِىَ is a totally different structure:
تُلْقِىَ           فعل   مضارع   صيغة ٤   الشخص الثاني   مذكر                  مفرد                   منصوب
tuloqiYa   Verb   Imperfect       4th form   2nd person   Masculine   Singular   Subjunctive mood

Peace!

jkhan

Quote from: TellMeTheTruth on July 16, 2023, 06:59:51 AM
I cannot ignore the Alif. It is noted as "lotaqama" but I think it is not correct.

فَ   فاء استئنافية                  
ٱلْتَقَمَ   فعل   ماض   صيغة ٨   الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد   
هُ   ضمير متصل         الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد   
fa   Resumption fa                  
{lotaqama   Verb   Perfect   8th form   3rd person   Masculine   Singular   
hu   Pronoun suffix         3rd person   Masculine   Singular   


I have found a few more similar examples where Al ال is used with verbs e.g.:

فَٱلْتَقَطَهُۥٓ [28:8]
فَ   فاء استئنافية                  
ٱلْتَقَطَ   فعل   ماض   صيغة ٨   الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد   
هُۥٓ   ضمير متصل         الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد
fa   Resumption fa                  
{lotaqaTa   Verb   Perfect   8th form   3rd person   Masculine   Singular   
hu,^   Pronoun suffix         3rd person   Masculine   Singular   


فَٱلْتَقَى[54:12]
فَ   فاء استئنافية                  
ٱلْتَقَى   فعل   ماض   صيغة ٨   الشخص الثالث   مذكر   مفرد
fa   Resumption fa                  
{lotaqaY   Verb   Perfect   8th form   3rd person   Masculine   Singular   


فَٱلْتَمِسُوا۟ [57:13]
فَ   فاء عطف                  
ٱلْتَمِسُ   فعل   أمر   صيغة ٨   الشخص الثاني   مذكر   جمع   
وا۟   ضمير متصل         الشخص الثاني   مذكر   جمع:
fa   Conjunctive fa                  
{lotamisu   Verb   Imperative   8th form   2nd person   Masculine   Plural   
wA@   Pronoun suffix         2nd person   Masculine   Plural   


NOTE:
The verb mentioned in 7:115 i.e., تُلْقِىَ is a totally different structure:
تُلْقِىَ           فعل   مضارع   صيغة ٤   الشخص الثاني   مذكر                  مفرد                   منصوب
tuloqiYa   Verb   Imperfect       4th form   2nd person   Masculine   Singular   Subjunctive mood

Peace!

You are getting what I am saying.. Just relax don't confuse..
These are verbs starting with letter Lam.. And not definite article AL.. Earlier I was talking about Alkiy..
All above verses you have brought  are starting with Lam.. So you have confused I presume.. These are kind of verbs used with Alif then its starting letter Lam.. That's what I understood with sucj verses.. No more comments.. No more knowledge from my side in this.. But they are verbs starting with letter Lam and prefixed with Alif.. So they are not definite article AL..  Thank you..

TellMeTheTruth

Salam Everyone!

I would like to have a source where I can study this type of Arabic verbs in detail.

Peace!

jkhan

Quote from: TellMeTheTruth on July 16, 2023, 11:31:35 AM
Salam Everyone!

I would like to have a source where I can study this type of Arabic verbs in detail.

Peace!

I wish someone respond to you so that I can also verify whether my understanding on this is line with right method.. Anyway.. It isn't big deal.. Just grammar not manipulation of meaning of words...


TellMeTheTruth

Brother Jkhan!

In case the article ال cannot be added with verbs then there are chances of manipulation in meanings, definitely. Moreover, there is تَ (ta) prefix which is used to make verbs in feminine form, in that case too, mistake in meanings is possible since "the man swallowed up" is masculine, while, "the fish" who swallowed i.e., الحُوتُ is also masculine.

Moreover, the sukun visible on letter Lam in each verb listed in my previous reply. And I do not know if a word in Arabic can start with a letter/consonant having a sukun on it.

In addition to all above, as far as I know, there is no fish which can swallow up a whole man without tearing him apart. Even Sperm-Whate can only keep a whole man in its mouth but cannot swallow him up due to the structure of its throat.

Hope you understand why I am concerned.

Peace!

jkhan

Quote from: TellMeTheTruth on July 17, 2023, 09:12:57 AM
Brother Jkhan!

In case the article ال cannot be added with verbs then there are chances of manipulation in meanings, definitely. Moreover, there is تَ (ta) prefix which is used to make verbs in feminine form, in that case too, mistake in meanings is possible since "the man swallowed up" is masculine, while, "the fish" who swallowed i.e., الحُوتُ is also masculine.

Moreover, the sukun visible on letter Lam in each verb listed in my previous reply. And I do not know if a word in Arabic can start with a letter/consonant having a sukun on it.

In addition to all above, as far as I know, there is no fish which can swallow up a whole man without tearing him apart. Even Sperm-Whate can only keep a whole man in its mouth but cannot swallow him up due to the structure of its throat.

Hope you understand why I am concerned.

Peace!

As far as I know like in English definite article cannot be added infront of verb... That's why I said no AL is added..
Meanwhile I don't see any second person 'tha' is prefixed.  . All masculine.. No feminine...
Althaqama itself a verb.. In my understanding no confusion.. Everything is fine..
Letter 'Tha' in word AlTHAqama is nothing to do second person prefix... Althaqama is a a complete verb no prefixes...
Thank you... Arabic has direct meaning of swallow for Althaqama.. So not manipulated either..
Anyway keep research bring evidence.. Then let's reflect.. Not a big issue.. Not a commanding verse for life..