Bakka is here

[Lachini]

Hajj is the reproduction of the early humans' journey from Arafat to Bakka.

www.shajaracode.com

[GODsubmitter]

Quite an interesting link Lachini

I wish I could read the book.

Thank you

[wasi]

 

[jkhan]

Salam,
I've been search for a place called Bakkah for a long time, but could not find it anywhere. Until I realized that I'm asking wrong question about Bakkah. To understand what bakkah is, I need to clarify the related words come up in the same context such as bayt, hajj, and what the things Ibrahim and Ishmael have done in the past, according to Quran. Let's get into the verses:

=Bayt=
There's a lot of verses talking about bayt in Quran, both physically and metaphorically. but clearly, we can distinguish them by look at the context. Here is the example how to treat the word 'bayt' taught by Allah:

29:41 The parable of those who take protectors other than Allah is that of the spider, who builds (to itself) a house<baytan>; but truly the weakest of houses <buyuti>is the spider?s house <baytu>;- if they but knew.

29:42 And such are the Parables We set forth for mankind, but only those understand them who have knowledge.

This verse has described the Polytheism belief as weakest house metaphorically. So we knew that when a verse talk about a house or bayt, followed by a statement regarding either polytheism or monotheism, the house(s) or bayt here must be understood metaphorically.

For example :

16:26   Those before them had schemed, so God came to their buildings from the foundation, thus the roof fell on top of them; and the retribution came to them from where they did not know.
16:27   Then, on the Day of Resurrection He will humiliate them, and say: "Where are My partners regarding whom you used to dispute?" Those who have received the knowledge said: "The humiliation today and the misery are upon the rejecters."

In 16:26, it talks about a building which its roof has fell down. And this verse followed by a question regarding God's partner confirming polytheism practiced by some people. It means that the buildings here must be understood metaphorically, just like the spider's house mentioned in 24:91.

And another parable has explained by God in following verses:

24:35    Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

24:36 In houses <buyuutin>, which Allah hath permitted to be raised; for the celebration, in them, of His name: In them is He glorified in the mornings and in the evenings,-

In 24:35, Allah has described Himself using parable. And do you recall a house which its foundation has been raised up by Ibrahim and Ishmael? It's one of the houses raised up as mentioned in 24:36.

Let's take closer to the verses:

2:127    And as Abraham raised from the Sanctuary its foundations, along with Ishmael: "Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable."
22:26   And We have appointed to Abraham the location of the House: "Do not set up anyone with Me, and purify My House for those who visit, and those who are standing, and the kneeling, and the prostating."

As you can see, the word house here has followed by the command not to set up any Idol, confirming Monotheism. So the house here must be understood metaphorically. This house is not laid in physical place but it's explain about the monotheism. And it's the opposite of polytheism, the spider's house.

Now, it's clear about the bayt. Let's move to another word, Hajj.

=Hajj=

Since the Bayt itself is not a physical place, the word hajj automatically has nothing to do with a physical journey. So what's the hajj then? Hajj is the calling to monotheism for the mankind.
In lane lexicon, triliteral root word Haa-Jiim-Jiim = to intend to a certain target. And the target is bayt, the monotheism.

The only acceptable word for different people with different background of beliefs is just monotheism. That's why we are commanded not to arguing during the hajj:

2:197 ...no arguing in the hajj;

It's because we are told to talk about the only acceptable words for whole mankind : God alone.

22:67   ...So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

Now it's clear that the purpose of Hajj is to call the people which likely has different creed, and different qiblah as well, to God alone.

Hajj also has rites called Safa and Marwa also known as signs of God. Phrase signs of God also mentioned in 22:36.

2:158   Indeed, Safa and Marwa are among the signs of God.
22:36   And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the signs of God; you will have benefit in them. So mention the name of God upon them in lined up <Sawāffa> ; when they are down on their sides, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.

Since there is no physical place get involved, Safa and Marwa must be translated literally:

Safa/Sawaffa
= Sad-Fa-Fa = side by side, laid out, a rank/row/line

Marwa
= Miim-Ra-Waw = the stone on which an animal is slaughtered.

So the signs of God is the plump livestock lined up and get slaughtered.

It's in line with the God's command to every people (ummah) to perform a rites (mansakan):

22:67   For every people (ummah) We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

And that rites is:

22:34   And for every people (ummah) We have established rites that they may mention the name of God over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. Your god is One god; submit to Him and give good tidings to those who obey.

Once again, the rites is for every people (ummah), means everyone which likely coming from many different beliefs.

So now we have two places has been translated into words which match into the context. Now let's move to Bakkah, the place which had been lost for many years.

=Bakka=

Bakka, since it's related to the Bayt, which has been understood as non physical structure, so nothing can stop us to do the same thing with Bakkah.

3:96 inna awwala baytin wudhi'a lilnnaasi lalladhii bibakkata mubaarakan wahudan lil'aalamiina

I've put my translation, word by word as follows:

inna
indeed

awwala
Alif-Waw-Lam - its origin or source; his or its original state,

baytin
house (please understand it metaphorically as monotheism)

wudhi'a
Waw-Dad-Ayn = the proper place of a thing.

lilnnāsi
for the mankind

lalladhī
those who

bibakkata
= Ba-Kaf-Kaf (e.g. bakka) = distinguishing/ranking above others

mubārakan
blessed

wahudan
and a guidance

lil'ālamīna
for the worlds.

So the verse will be:

3:96 Indeed, something that originated from monotheism (baytin) is a proper place for people who in the difference with another (in beliefs), which is blessed, and guidance for whole worlds.

This translation makes sense to me because it's in line with the purpose of hajj. But since I'm not good enough in Arabic, especially in grammar, any comments and input, really appreciated.

Peace

Peace my dear fellow believers...

What do you think within your knowledge of Quran about above article....

Quite interesting but need loads of research... Any comments positive and negative pls. 

[Wakas]

Its ok but lacks rigour.

The translation of 29:41 is likely wrong.
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602147.0

Incorrect root of "safwa".

Multiple issues with 2:196 (as I linked previously).

Minimal cross-referencing.

tlihawa might be on the right track but needs refining.


I much prefer the rigour of:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

[jkhan]

Its ok but lacks rigour.

The translation of 29:41 is likely wrong.
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602147.0

Incorrect root of "safwa".

Multiple issues with 2:196 (as I linked previously).

Minimal cross-referencing.

tlihawa might be on the right track but needs refining.


I much prefer the rigour of:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

Thank you...

What you mean by Tilhawa  on the right track... Does it mean that Bayt may or in fact mean non physical and  like monotheism or complete system...


BTW...  I will read your last link...

@ Tilhawa. .

Ibrahim somehow called people towards him it means to certain place... So you mean to preach Monotheism what God has taught him and not to show a physical building to people calling it God's house... Come people this is a house built by me and Ismail.  .. Is that what you mean... Can you plz elaborate your further views and concerns about BAYT = MONOTHEISM...
thankyou

[jkhan]

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610142.msg415225#msg415225

I found the above from the same person which is identical to his same view.. Anyone who is interested may read...

[Fusion]

The interpretation of whether "Bakka" mentioned in this verse 3:96 is a physical place or a metaphor varies among scholars and individuals. Here are a few perspectives:

Literal Interpretation: Some scholars argue that "Bakka" refers to the city of Mecca, located in present-day Saudi Arabia. They believe that the verse is referring to the Kaaba, which is considered the first house of worship built for mankind by the Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael. According to this perspective, "Bakka" is taken as the ancient name for Mecca.

Metaphorical Interpretation: Other scholars and individuals propose a metaphorical interpretation of "Bakka." They argue that "Bakka" symbolizes a place of weeping or lamentation. They suggest that the verse signifies the spiritual significance and blessings associated with the place of worship rather than a specific physical location. This view focuses on the universal message of guidance and the spiritual experience rather than the geographical aspect.

It's important to note that the interpretation of Quranic verses can vary based on individual understanding and scholarly analysis. Different scholars and sects may have different perspectives on the metaphorical or literal nature of certain verses. Ultimately, the interpretation of the Quran is a matter of personal belief and scholarly discourse.

Almost 8 or 9 years ago I had a friend here Arman whom i had later known as a personal friend and still interacts occasionally, sadly he is no longer active here. His opinion is of the following :

Quote:
I believe "Bakkah" in Qur'an is the same as or rather a direct reference of Valley of Baka in Psalm 84:6. It is a metaphorical location on the way towards one's journey to his desired destination. The explanations in the below site seem quite appropriate:

http://biblehub.com/psalms/84-6.htm

The "house" at "Bakkah" refers to the safe-house created by Abraham and his descendants to take shelter under worship of one true Master of the universe. This is the safehouse for the faithful in their journey towards their ultimate destination - their Master.

Per my humble understanding the original physical location of bakkah can never be ascertained with certainty, and it does not matter.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

[jkhan]

Salam,
I've been search for a place called Bakkah for a long time, but could not find it anywhere. Until I realized that I'm asking wrong question about Bakkah. To understand what bakkah is, I need to clarify the related words come up in the same context such as bayt, hajj, and what the things Ibrahim and Ishmael have done in the past, according to Quran. Let's get into the verses:

=Bayt=
There's a lot of verses talking about bayt in Quran, both physically and metaphorically. but clearly, we can distinguish them by look at the context. Here is the example how to treat the word 'bayt' taught by Allah:

29:41 The parable of those who take protectors other than Allah is that of the spider, who builds (to itself) a house<baytan>; but truly the weakest of houses <buyuti>is the spider?s house <baytu>;- if they but knew.

29:42 And such are the Parables We set forth for mankind, but only those understand them who have knowledge.

This verse has described the Polytheism belief as weakest house metaphorically. So we knew that when a verse talk about a house or bayt, followed by a statement regarding either polytheism or monotheism, the house(s) or bayt here must be understood metaphorically.

For example :

16:26   Those before them had schemed, so God came to their buildings from the foundation, thus the roof fell on top of them; and the retribution came to them from where they did not know.
16:27   Then, on the Day of Resurrection He will humiliate them, and say: "Where are My partners regarding whom you used to dispute?" Those who have received the knowledge said: "The humiliation today and the misery are upon the rejecters."

In 16:26, it talks about a building which its roof has fell down. And this verse followed by a question regarding God's partner confirming polytheism practiced by some people. It means that the buildings here must be understood metaphorically, just like the spider's house mentioned in 24:91.

And another parable has explained by God in following verses:

24:35    Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

24:36 In houses <buyuutin>, which Allah hath permitted to be raised; for the celebration, in them, of His name: In them is He glorified in the mornings and in the evenings,-

In 24:35, Allah has described Himself using parable. And do you recall a house which its foundation has been raised up by Ibrahim and Ishmael? It's one of the houses raised up as mentioned in 24:36.

Let's take closer to the verses:

2:127    And as Abraham raised from the Sanctuary its foundations, along with Ishmael: "Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable."
22:26   And We have appointed to Abraham the location of the House: "Do not set up anyone with Me, and purify My House for those who visit, and those who are standing, and the kneeling, and the prostating."

As you can see, the word house here has followed by the command not to set up any Idol, confirming Monotheism. So the house here must be understood metaphorically. This house is not laid in physical place but it's explain about the monotheism. And it's the opposite of polytheism, the spider's house.

Now, it's clear about the bayt. Let's move to another word, Hajj.

=Hajj=

Since the Bayt itself is not a physical place, the word hajj automatically has nothing to do with a physical journey. So what's the hajj then? Hajj is the calling to monotheism for the mankind.
In lane lexicon, triliteral root word Haa-Jiim-Jiim = to intend to a certain target. And the target is bayt, the monotheism.

The only acceptable word for different people with different background of beliefs is just monotheism. That's why we are commanded not to arguing during the hajj:

2:197 ...no arguing in the hajj;

It's because we are told to talk about the only acceptable words for whole mankind : God alone.

22:67   ...So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

Now it's clear that the purpose of Hajj is to call the people which likely has different creed, and different qiblah as well, to God alone.

Hajj also has rites called Safa and Marwa also known as signs of God. Phrase signs of God also mentioned in 22:36.

2:158   Indeed, Safa and Marwa are among the signs of God.
22:36   And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the signs of God; you will have benefit in them. So mention the name of God upon them in lined up <Sawāffa> ; when they are down on their sides, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.

Since there is no physical place get involved, Safa and Marwa must be translated literally:

Safa/Sawaffa
= Sad-Fa-Fa = side by side, laid out, a rank/row/line

Marwa
= Miim-Ra-Waw = the stone on which an animal is slaughtered.

So the signs of God is the plump livestock lined up and get slaughtered.

It's in line with the God's command to every people (ummah) to perform a rites (mansakan):

22:67   For every people (ummah) We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

And that rites is:

22:34   And for every people (ummah) We have established rites that they may mention the name of God over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. Your god is One god; submit to Him and give good tidings to those who obey.

Once again, the rites is for every people (ummah), means everyone which likely coming from many different beliefs.

So now we have two places has been translated into words which match into the context. Now let's move to Bakkah, the place which had been lost for many years.

=Bakka=

Bakka, since it's related to the Bayt, which has been understood as non physical structure, so nothing can stop us to do the same thing with Bakkah.

3:96 inna awwala baytin wudhi'a lilnnaasi lalladhii bibakkata mubaarakan wahudan lil'aalamiina

I've put my translation, word by word as follows:

inna
indeed

awwala
Alif-Waw-Lam - its origin or source; his or its original state,

baytin
house (please understand it metaphorically as monotheism)

wudhi'a
Waw-Dad-Ayn = the proper place of a thing.

lilnnāsi
for the mankind

lalladhī
those who

bibakkata
= Ba-Kaf-Kaf (e.g. bakka) = distinguishing/ranking above others

mubārakan
blessed

wahudan
and a guidance

lil'ālamīna
for the worlds.

So the verse will be:

3:96 Indeed, something that originated from monotheism (baytin) is a proper place for people who in the difference with another (in beliefs), which is blessed, and guidance for whole worlds.

This translation makes sense to me because it's in line with the purpose of hajj. But since I'm not good enough in Arabic, especially in grammar, any comments and input, really appreciated.

Peace

Salam..

I have a string point for everyone to reflect...

Verse 2:125 And when We made the House (Bayt) a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We made COVENANT/PROMISE Abraham and Ishmael, , "Purify My House (Bayt) for those who perform visit and those who are staying for worship and those who bow and prostrate..

My question is Why need to make  covenant with both Ibrahim and Ismail just to the cleaning job of a physical building... Don't they know to keep such a place tidy?  Or is Bayt a house at all?  Or Bayt is metaphorical structure / System / Deen ?