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Biased translations are to be exposed.

Started by jkhan, June 14, 2023, 03:19:49 AM

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good logic

Peace jkhan.
We all go through GOD s trial and there are many phases in the journey.
Guidance is subjective and only GOD knows 100% the guided.

Seeking guidance and knowing for sure we are guided are two different things. We have to undergo a test and Only GOD Alone does the guiding not those who are guided-Think or even know for sure they are.

In reality we could think we are guided,yet pursue a line of arrogance/our own opinions and follow our ego.
GOD warns with His signs/Aayat for us to beware and keep going with sincerity and humility:

Give them the news of one who was given our proofs( And verses-double meaning in my opinion-), but chose to disregard them. Consequently, the devil pursued him, until he became a strayer.
وَاتلُ عَلَيهِم نَبَأَ الَّذى ءاتَينٰهُ ءايٰتِنا فَانسَلَخَ مِنها فَأَتبَعَهُ الشَّيطٰنُ فَكانَ مِنَ الغاوينَ
Had we willed, we could have elevated him therewith, but he insisted on sticking to the ground, and pursued his own opinions-followed his ego-. Thus, he is like the dog; whether you pet him or scold him, he pants. Such is the example of people who reject our proofs(and verses). Narrate these narrations, that they may reflect.
وَلَو شِئنا لَرَفَعنٰهُ بِها وَلٰكِنَّهُ أَخلَدَ إِلَى الأَرضِ وَاتَّبَعَ هَوىٰهُ فَمَثَلُهُ كَمَثَلِ الكَلبِ إِن تَحمِل عَلَيهِ يَلهَث أَو تَترُكهُ يَلهَث ذٰلِكَ مَثَلُ القَومِ الَّذينَ كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا فَاقصُصِ القَصَصَ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَفَكَّرونَ
Bad indeed is the example of people who reject our proofs( and verses); it is only their own souls that they wrong.
ساءَ مَثَلًا القَومُ الَّذينَ كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا وَأَنفُسَهُم كانوا يَظلِمونَ
Whomever God guides is the truly guided one, and whomever He commits to straying, these are the losers.
مَن يَهدِ اللَّهُ فَهُوَ المُهتَدى وَمَن يُضلِل فَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الخٰسِرونَ

This really could apply to any of us . We could say we believe in GOD s proofs but reject other Aayats of His Book- or misunderstand them or do the wrong thing with them...etc.
The last verses is clarifying that GOD Alone guides and knows who is truly guided.
It is not necessarily all those who say they are guided. Those who think they are guided should always be wary of the ego and keep seeking GOD s guidance - one should never reach the end of this-

Now ,while I appreciate what you do and you are trying your best to find the real interpretations, there is a straight forward way. Start with a view to complete the translation of the whole Qoran.

For example , I have been trying to translate the whole Qoran for me- In the last 5 /6 years- and put it out there for people to browse/check for themselves. I am still in the process of making sure I get the right consistent approach and guidance to complete my project.

In my opinion the best way to do a translation that can be useful is to put out one s own translation of the whole text and leave it at that. People can use or refuse or...  through their own effort. Or do their own- . This will allow  for better comparisons . Selected verses are bits and bobs that may not show the full picture.

  At the end of the day GOD is the sole guide and we can only give our views/opinions/interpretations according to our own research/faculties.
Even if one thinks they are 100% right in their interpretation, it is irrelevant and will never guide anyone else.
GOD will sort it out for each guidance seeker to find their right interpretation.
Having said that I appreciate what you do.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

jkhan

Quote from: good logic on July 09, 2024, 08:53:43 AMPeace jkhan.
We all go through GOD s trial and there are many phases in the journey.
Guidance is subjective and only GOD knows 100% the guided.

Seeking guidance and knowing for sure we are guided are two different things. We have to undergo a test and Only GOD Alone does the guiding not those who are guided-Think or even know for sure they are.

In reality we could think we are guided,yet pursue a line of arrogance/our own opinions and follow our ego.
GOD warns with His signs/Aayat for us to beware and keep going with sincerity and humility:

Give them the news of one who was given our proofs( And verses-double meaning in my opinion-), but chose to disregard them. Consequently, the devil pursued him, until he became a strayer.
وَاتلُ عَلَيهِم نَبَأَ الَّذى ءاتَينٰهُ ءايٰتِنا فَانسَلَخَ مِنها فَأَتبَعَهُ الشَّيطٰنُ فَكانَ مِنَ الغاوينَ
Had we willed, we could have elevated him therewith, but he insisted on sticking to the ground, and pursued his own opinions-followed his ego-. Thus, he is like the dog; whether you pet him or scold him, he pants. Such is the example of people who reject our proofs(and verses). Narrate these narrations, that they may reflect.
وَلَو شِئنا لَرَفَعنٰهُ بِها وَلٰكِنَّهُ أَخلَدَ إِلَى الأَرضِ وَاتَّبَعَ هَوىٰهُ فَمَثَلُهُ كَمَثَلِ الكَلبِ إِن تَحمِل عَلَيهِ يَلهَث أَو تَترُكهُ يَلهَث ذٰلِكَ مَثَلُ القَومِ الَّذينَ كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا فَاقصُصِ القَصَصَ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَفَكَّرونَ
Bad indeed is the example of people who reject our proofs( and verses); it is only their own souls that they wrong.
ساءَ مَثَلًا القَومُ الَّذينَ كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا وَأَنفُسَهُم كانوا يَظلِمونَ
Whomever God guides is the truly guided one, and whomever He commits to straying, these are the losers.
مَن يَهدِ اللَّهُ فَهُوَ المُهتَدى وَمَن يُضلِل فَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الخٰسِرونَ

This really could apply to any of us . We could say we believe in GOD s proofs but reject other Aayats of His Book- or misunderstand them or do the wrong thing with them...etc.
The last verses is clarifying that GOD Alone guides and knows who is truly guided.
It is not necessarily all those who say they are guided. Those who think they are guided should always be wary of the ego and keep seeking GOD s guidance - one should never reach the end of this-

Now ,while I appreciate what you do and you are trying your best to find the real interpretations, there is a straight forward way. Start with a view to complete the translation of the whole Qoran.

For example , I have been trying to translate the whole Qoran for me- In the last 5 /6 years- and put it out there for people to browse/check for themselves. I am still in the process of making sure I get the right consistent approach and guidance to complete my project.

In my opinion the best way to do a translation that can be useful is to put out one s own translation of the whole text and leave it at that. People can use or refuse or...  through their own effort. Or do their own- . This will allow  for better comparisons . Selected verses are bits and bobs that may not show the full picture.

  At the end of the day GOD is the sole guide and we can only give our views/opinions/interpretations according to our own research/faculties.
Even if one thinks they are 100% right in their interpretation, it is irrelevant and will never guide anyone else.
GOD will sort it out for each guidance seeker to find their right interpretation.
Having said that I appreciate what you do.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace brother GL...

Well, I don't think there is any point in translating the entire Quran into English by anyone anymore, since there are scores of translations in English itself.. Though my view.. In my understanding, all the translations I have read are 95 % correct of the entire Quran and the balance percentage are hadith prejudiced translations and it is obvious by reading them.. But a certain percentage of the Quran verses are translated with their own understanding like me or you understand certain verses in different ways.. So, I am trying my level best to understand that 5% that they have translated either with a traditional background or genuinely unwittingly like verse 7:26 for which there is no need for a traditional background but sheer misunderstanding..
I am not saying I am right out and out here.. But as a reader of those translations and comparison with the genuine Arabic Quran, I perceive that those translations won't make sense. Well, of course within my understanding... Let those who are open-minded and seeking the truth alone decide what indeed makes sense for them, while they strongly believe that there is no flaw in the Quran unfortunately when reading translations it seems there are flaws as a consequence of faulty translations..

One thing, Brother GL, Allah will ensure that those who seek guidance will reach the absolute truth of what Allah has revealed.. In my case, I am not looking for flaws in translation while reading the book in English, to be honest, but strangely without any preconceived status of mind suddenly something pops up in my mind and informs pls re-read and it says pls re-read again and with that scenario, I get a different meaning to what is translated so I start checking the verse again and again why it pushes me and not allowing me to get to the next verse.. Then I realize that it is not the way it should be... And that's my way of getting guidance from Allah.. But whatever I present here is subjected to debate or interrogation and no one needs to accept any of what I am saying or translating but use your own wits since you all have read the book and you all are erudite people in various fields... That's all..

No one needs to accept anyone's translation... right.. but they have to accept the Quran but how they accept is what matters..

good logic

Peace jkhan.
 
 Yes I understand you.
 I am trying to say that GOD weeds out the true from the false by guidance and misguidance according to his knowledge of them and their convictions.
Scores of people have gone there with good intentions but failed to recognise the trap of the ego.

I am saying that for one s own satisfaction, it is better if they try to interpret the whole text ,even if they agree 99% with some other translations out there.. And not just in English or another popular language but in their own dialect /language they speak  even if it is Arabic.

This will serve as a study , research, reminder/meditation...etc.
Then it will not matter if others agree or disagree , the guidance of GOD will be the most important factor and this will influence the outcome..
But I know your aim is sincere.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

jkhan

19:29 So she signaled to him. They said, "How can we communicate with one who is in the childhood(AlMahdi) attachment/inclination (Sabiyan)?"

That's what makes sense for the verse and within Arabic as well.. In my case though..

19:12 -13 "O Yahya, uphold the Scripture with determination/firmness." And We gave him the Wisdom of attachment/inclination (Sabiyan). And affection from Us and purity, and he was conscious.

And the similar word is used in relation to Yahya too and that too give the perfect meaning of attachment /Sabiya. If you read the next verse 19:13 you will realize it is not about a child but attachment..
As I discussed with my lovely brother GL, it is my comprehensive understanding as of now, and not necessary for you to take it as the ultimate truth but to give it a thought and use your intellect whether it makes sense or nonsense..
That's all...

jkhan

2:189 They ask you, about the entitlement (AlAhillath). Say, "It (Hiya) is assessments/measurements for the people and the debate of contentment (AlHajj)." It is not the dutifulness that you bring the objectives/concepts (albuyut) out of their superficialness, but, the dutifulness is one being conscientious, and getting the objectives/concepts from their comprehensiveness. And be conscientious of Allah so that you succeed."

What! These Arabs did not even know the phases of the moon while they already had months and counting.. Is that even a question to ask what the 'phases of the moon' is? I was also blinded not knowing Arabic in the past and depending on what everyone has translated.. but the truth is different.. It is not phases of the Moon but Al Ahilla means to be the exact entitlement of worthiness..




jkhan

The word Bayt has the meaning of Structure, house, edifice, charter, meditation, objective etc.. And Allah has used them in Quran..

33:33 "And be stable/firm in your meditations/contemplation (buyut) and do not dispose your temperament/disposition of the ignorance of the former, and institute connection/moral sense and bring on/cause to arise purification and obey Allah and His Messenger. And verily, Allah intends to withdraw from you the filth by worth of meditation and to clean you of a cleanse."

The above verse does not say, O women, stay inside your home... That's nonsensical...

jkhan

4:15
And those of your women who commit immoral sexual activity (fahisha) then testify with four against them from among you. And if they were testified, then affiliate them into the meditations, eventually to attain the discontinuance/quit, or else, Allah would make for them a way.

4:16
And those who commit it (fahisha) among you (man to man) taunt/insult both of them, so if they (both) repented and refined themselves so then excuse both of them. Indeed Allah is turning in generous


If anyone says,  no it may not be the truth then bring what is truth pls.. Welcome.. Remember the above verses for believers who are not married/married but gay or lesbian.. Thats so obvious. Note; all these laws are applicable if there is an authority in power abiding by Allah's law only...But you may try with your own children in case they are in such scenarios..

Now one would ponder if this is the system of Allah for believing Gay and lesbians among believers then what could be the rule for believing married men and women who committed Zina  ..yes.  24:2 word JALAD is wrongly translated as 100 lashes or whips.. But the true meaning of the Quran in this instance of JALAD is undeniably RIGOROUS IMPRISONMENT (hard labor and constrained or imprisonment with hard physical labor) for 100 days and let some of the believers keep witnessing/supervising whether they are going through the humiliations as it deserved over the period of 100 days.

jkhan

4:56 "Indeed, those who disbelieved with Our revelations/signs, We will make them suffer into a Harshness (naar). Every time, they were to reach a point of accomplishment of their hardships/severities, We would replace them with other severities so they may undergo the humiliation.  ....."


It seems, that life in Hell (Al Naar) is full of Humiliation (Azab) where inhabitants are made to face harshness and given works where they get into hardships and repeatedly they are given one after another to suffer and experience it forever..
There is no literal fire and burning people's skins as we are made to believe but Hell itself is not a pleasant place where full of Heat... to be honest translations and superficially taking them led me to believe that Skins are burnt...

No one likes hardships and severe conditions in life and harshness and especially after living a comfy life and imagine to go through a life forever in The Hell.. That's the recompense that hurts and not the literal fire burning stuff..

52:16 "Suffer in it! And tolerate you patiently, or tolerate you impatiently, it is alike to you; you are only being recompensed for that you were doing."

No one can bear the literal fire, that's ridiculous...But, some may bear/tolerate and some may not tolerate the harshness and hardships, but whatever they do with their effort, it all will be SAME... They will suffer literally.. Their patience and their impatience with it won't give any consequence ...

jkhan

The Words Abd and Aman are normally translated as Slave/servant and believer respectively... I explored thoroughly to have a critique and I realized that in Quran Abd is not mostly slave or servant but it is BELIEVE/ACCEPT,  while Amin means PROFESS/FAITH...
Ibadi can be used for anyone who believes something... There is a clear difference between BELIEVE and PROFESS faith

37:132 Indeed, he was one of our believers(ibadi) of the faithful ones (Mumin).

36:30 Ah, how regretful for the believers (Ibadi). There did not come to them any messenger except that they used to ridicule him.

Everyone is Ibadi/believer in respect to what they believe..

34:13 "..... And few of My believers/ibadi are grateful."

Believing is not that difficult and every believer is not grateful through actions.. Being an ibadi is nothing.. mostly most on earth are ibadi..

Also, I would prefer to enlighten with my understanding of words Amal Salihan, Muhsineen and Mukhliseen.. They are mistranslated... They are Works of refinement/reform (salih), Equitable/unprejudiced (hasan), and Active/energetic(mukhliseen) respectively...

37:160 Except for the active/energetic(mukhliseen) believers (ibadi) of Allah

Being a believer/abd is not enough but active (mukhliseen) believer is what matters.. compare 37:160 with 34:13... to be active believer one has to be Muhsineen (equitable) and do Amal Salihan (works of refinement).. The conscientious(muththaqun) person is heading that way... for all these, you need to be a person who has connection/moral sense(salat) so that you purify yourself (zaka)

Isa said..5:118 "If You should humiliate them - indeed they are Your believers(Ibadi); but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

They were ibadi/believers in Allah but associated...

Ibadath = Belief
Emaan = Faithfulness

19:65 Lord of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them(dual) – so believe/accept(Fa'abuduHu) Him and have patience for His belief (Ibadath)

Problem is people believe but associate for sure...

19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes to the Merciful as a believer/ibadi

But no use of it... they were not Mumin, mukhliseen, muhsineen, no salat and zaka and they didn't become conscientious/muthaqun ... but they associated to Him..

12:106 And most of them profess (amn) not in Allah except while they associate.

The connection between Allah and us is not SLAVERY.. We are free creatures and we are created with free will.... And the reason to be created is to test us who is good in actions... for that, we are to be believe / Abd Allah... Yes almost do knowingly or unknowingly but most do associate...

The association defines equating with Allah Himself an another figure and following a path other than Allah's.. that's undeniable.. Most on Earth do one or the other or both..

4:36 "Believe(abd) in Allah and associate nothing with Him ..... ..."

If you know the correct meaning of SERVE, you can't serve Allah.. He is not in need of anything to be served by us for Him.. That ritualistic mind created it..

1:5 "You alone We BELIEVE and You alone we SUCCOR/SEEK"

that's missing in life but only lip service...

Allah is not some kind of a nasty King or a Boss in office, just to SERVE and hope for some help... Allah commands you to believe in Him alone and Seek from Him alone.. use your wits people..

jkhan

Quote from: jkhan on August 06, 2024, 09:12:08 PMThe Words Abd and Aman are normally translated as Slave/servant and believer respectively... I explored thoroughly to have a critique and I realized that in Quran Abd is not mostly slave or servant but it is BELIEVE/ACCEPT,  while Amin means PROFESS/FAITH...
Ibadi can be used for anyone who believes something... There is a clear difference between BELIEVE and PROFESS faith

37:132 Indeed, he was one of our believers(ibadi) of the faithful ones (Mumin).

36:30 Ah, how regretful for the believers (Ibadi). There did not come to them any messenger except that they used to ridicule him.

Everyone is Ibadi/believer in respect to what they believe..

34:13 "..... And few of My believers/ibadi are grateful."

Believing is not that difficult and every believer is not grateful through actions.. Being an ibadi is nothing.. mostly most on earth are ibadi..

Also, I would prefer to enlighten with my understanding of words Amal Salihan, Muhsineen and Mukhliseen.. They are mistranslated... They are Works of refinement/reform (salih), Equitable/unprejudiced (hasan), and Active/energetic(mukhliseen) respectively...

37:160 Except for the active/energetic(mukhliseen) believers (ibadi) of Allah

Being a believer/abd is not enough but active (mukhliseen) believer is what matters.. compare 37:160 with 34:13... to be active believer one has to be Muhsineen (equitable) and do Amal Salihan (works of refinement).. The conscientious(muththaqun) person is heading that way... for all these, you need to be a person who has connection/moral sense(salat) so that you purify yourself (zaka)

Isa said..5:118 "If You should humiliate them - indeed they are Your believers(Ibadi); but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

They were ibadi/believers in Allah but associated...

Ibadath = Belief
Emaan = Faithfulness

19:65 Lord of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them(dual) – so believe/accept(Fa'abuduHu) Him and have patience for His belief (Ibadath)

Problem is people believe but associate for sure...

19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes to the Merciful as a believer/ibadi

But no use of it... they were not Mumin, mukhliseen, muhsineen, no salat and zaka and they didn't become conscientious/muthaqun ... but they associated to Him..

12:106 And most of them profess (amn) not in Allah except while they associate.

The connection between Allah and us is not SLAVERY.. We are free creatures and we are created with free will.... And the reason to be created is to test us who is good in actions... for that, we are to be believe / Abd Allah... Yes almost do knowingly or unknowingly but most do associate...

The association defines equating with Allah Himself an another figure and following a path other than Allah's.. that's undeniable.. Most on Earth do one or the other or both..

4:36 "Believe(abd) in Allah and associate nothing with Him ..... ..."

If you know the correct meaning of SERVE, you can't serve Allah.. He is not in need of anything to be served by us for Him.. That ritualistic mind created it..

1:5 "You alone We BELIEVE and You alone we SUCCOR/SEEK"

that's missing in life but only lip service...

Allah is not some kind of a nasty King or a Boss in office, just to SERVE and hope for some help... Allah commands you to believe in Him alone and Seek from Him alone.. use your wits people..


25:17 "And on that Day He gathers them and what they are believing (Ya'buduna) besides Allah and He will say, "Did you mislead these of My believers (Ibadi), or they strayed off the way?"

Here is my understanding.....
Well, this will be on that inevitable gathering day.. They believed in certain figures apart from Allah to be their protectors/lords/gods etc. But still, Allah calls them as My believers/Ibadi. They have gone astray obviously..
But everyone is a believer/ibadi in Allah willingly or unwillingly as Allah says everyone Surrenders/submits/Aslama (3:83)and everyone Sujud/acknowledges Allah willingly or willingly (13:15). Unfortunately, they all chose a path that misled them except a few..
The conundrum here is mentioned in the same verse per se (25:17).. They believe besides Allah others.. And it could be whatever they believe.. There arises association..
People may not say in words that they believe/ibad in God (or aslama or sujud), but they are and they do not profess it except a few, and even among those who profess faith, very few maintain it.. And most who professed faith do associate..