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Is polygamy Quranic

Started by Amra94, April 16, 2023, 12:38:55 PM

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Amra94

Many traditional Muslims say all men are naturally polygamous and they can have a second wife even without the first wife knowing because he doesn't need her permission to get married again.
Is there Quranic proof that this is wrong? Also, I know some Quranists don't even believe Muhammad had multiple wives. What is the evidence for this?

Fusion

Good evening,

Quran permits polygamy but with sets specific conditions that must be met for it to be allowed. In Surah An-Nisa, Verse 3, the Quran explains:
<But the problem of orphans (or those left alone in the society) is not solved simply by taking care of their property – it has other implications as well. For instance, if a situation arises, out of a war or otherwise – where a large number of men die, leaving behind widows and orphans, or you have a large number of marriageable women who cannot find husbands (4/127) and they cannot marry outside your circle; so if you cannot find an equitable solution to this problem then permission is hereby given to you to relax the Law of monogamy and those amongst you who can afford it and can treat all justly can marry two or three or four women of their liking. But if you fear that you cannot do justice, then only one or the female captives who are already in your charge. This will relieve you from the burden of a large family.>  Ref:https://www.parwez.tv/Abid_Audio_Refrences/Mufhoom_1/by_G_A_parwez/s4.htm

So the essence here is that you must do justice in all maters, and God knows that it is quite not possible , hence verse 4:129 explains.
<Permission to marry more than one wife was given subject to the condition that you hold the balance evenly amongst the wives (4/3). Allah knows that it will not be possible for you to hold this balance absolutely evenly, however keen you may be to do so. Justice will be secured if you do not incline towards one wife in such a way that another is left, as it were, suspended. If you observe fairness and be mindful of Allah's Laws you will secure protection and nurture from Him. >

The above verse may hint that a man must consult with his existing wife or wives and come to a friendly understanding before marrying another woman.

As for the Quranist perspective on Muhammad's marriages, Quranists reject the idea that hadiths or other sources outside of the Quran are valid sources of Islamic law and practice. Some Quranists argue that the Quran does not explicitly mention Muhammad's multiple marriages, and therefore, they believe that he did not engage in them. However, other scholars argue that the Quranic verses referring to "your wives" and "the wives of the Prophet" (Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 28) imply that Muhammad did indeed have multiple wives. Ultimately, this is a matter of interpretation and debate among Muslims.

It's important to acknowledge that in today's fast-paced society, with the prevalence of social media and endless daily responsibilities, it can be quite challenging for a man to maintain healthy, committed relationships with multiple women in the context of marriage. As a result, some men may resort to keeping a mistress, also known as a "kept woman", as a way to satisfy their desires or escape the difficulties of their current marriage. However, it's crucial to recognize that this behavior is not in alignment with Islamic values and principles. Islam places great emphasis on the sanctity of marriage and the importance of treating all partners with justice and kindness. Instead of resorting to illicit affairs, it's crucial for individuals to work towards building healthy, fulfilling relationships based on honesty, trust, and mutual respect.

To the person who started this thread,  I can understand how certain questions and statements can be interpreted in a negative light and undermine the respect and value of women. It's important to recognize and acknowledge the inherent worth and dignity of every human being, regardless of gender. Women, like men, are individuals with their own unique experiences, perspectives, and contributions to society. It's essential to treat women with respect, equality, and fairness, and to recognize their rights to self-determination and agency.
Women are the embodiment of beauty and grace, and their mere presence in the world adds richness and depth to life. Without women, the world would be dull and monotonous, lacking the warmth and liveliness that only they can bring. Therefore, women are a source of inspiration, hope, and love, and their contributions to society should be recognized and celebrated, not just being looked at from having them as wives only.



Best Regards,

jkhan

Quote from: Amra94 on April 16, 2023, 12:38:55 PM
Many traditional Muslims say all men are naturally polygamous and they can have a second wife even without the first wife knowing because he doesn't need her permission to get married again.
Is there Quranic proof that this is wrong? Also, I know some Quranists don't even believe Muhammad had multiple wives. What is the evidence for this?

Peace Sister...

Let me stick to your Question...  Quran is clear many people in the past had more than one wife legally.. Be she free woman or not they all women...  Needless to bring the verses..everyone knows..

Regarding your wording of WITHOUT KNOWING TO WIFE and WITHOUT PERMISSION...
for marriage there need no permission from anyone... Only the acceptance of the woman you gonna marry and let her make her family understand and kind of acceptance.. So things go smoothly.. (believer or disbelivers subject I don't touch here)

So ... Existing wife's permission is far from reality... Quran never says a single word... One man would go far region and found a woman and got married and came back home but live separately...  No need permission ...

second point without leting know the existing wife ... Yes.. It is up to the person... If you are so loyal you can inform... Even you don't inform no issue as long as marriage took place legally.. Otherwise it will end up illegal relationship... Ensure you are legally married otherwise first wife may complain he has extra marital.. Lol

All above I explained in the past era context.. Not now...
Now there is law in every country you live.. Just abide by that first...  God's law is not applicable if there is a law in the country you live...that doesn't mean we go agaisnt god.. Excellent example is Yousuf and his brother theft... Or Ibrahim breaking idols.. We shouldn't go against law of a nation even it is night or wrong.. But law is placed so abide by it.. Unless law says don't worship one God... I don't see such law anywhere.. Even they say.. You can hide and do so.. But you don't violate and harm anyone by worshipping God alone.. I don't mean to say Ibrahim did a wrong thing.. But in the sight of law it is wrong.. So don't expect God to save you by doing such aggression to other people like God saved Ibrahim ... 

So most of the law says one wife at a time legally...  To marry another divorce certificate is mandatory..  Having any other wife while having one already is betrayal to existing wife and against human law.. So abide by it...  By doing so you don't even violate God's  basic law.. Be satisfied with one.. Also every country allows divorce.. So.. Not against God's law... to practice God's law there is no hamper in the world.

There must have been various reason why God allowed polygamy and it did benefit it seems.. No need to dig on that... Leave the polygamy away even finding a single honest partner is kind of hefty task nowadays.. Lol.. At least in my case.. 😂 😂 ... Anyway I won't marry...

God says... "If you don't find means for marriage..." So it definitely indicates marriage needs means... That's for sure.. So...  Who can have polygamy if they don't have means for one first...

I would like to end with this note.. God says don't marry two sisters at the same time but if you have already God forgives and you may keep... So literal polygamy allowed. 
So in a nutshell.. If polygamy is allowed in your country and if you are able then marrying more than one is no harm at all. . Not agaisnt Quran ... But if you are restricted in your country don't keep illegal relationship  ..thats really hefty violation agaisnt God's law applicable all time any country... Your country's law may not punish but God will for sure...

Note: just leave the so called Quranist aside and what they say but accept what QURAN says... Why bother about so called Quranist say,  just bother about what QURAN says NOT what Quranist say... Ensure that pls if you like guidance from Quran.. Thank you... Hope your country one for one.. 😂
[url="https://rifkyy2020.wixsite.com/expressandlearntruth/post/facts-of-al-quran-08"]https://rifkyy2020.wixsite.com/expressandlearntruth/post/facts-of-al-quran-08[/url]

amin

As far as i see, yes Quran allows and many leads peaceful life having multiple families is proof. Whatever nature permits is allowed as per Quran. But without the wife permission or the community approval is cheating and wrong.

good logic

Peace sister.
Qoranic proof is subjective to how it is interpreted by the reader or follower of interpretations of others.

There will be those who say to you Qoran allows up to four wives and there will be others who say marry only one.What is your view? Or double check each interpretation of others before you go with any if you are not sure.You need to be satisfied .i.e to find your own proof.

For me Qoran is saying first of all that there is freedom of choice to follow it or not, then the advice is to follow the best path that is indicated to us in it.
Weighing the statement in Qoran ,that is saying to us in clear Arabic that does not need interpretations by others for us or all interpretations agree with each others  for "We can never be just with marrying more than one woman no matter how hard we try."
So the best way is to marry only one.. This will give a better harmony for the one set family - one mother, father and the set of children from both=

Of course GOD allowed past marriages to exist and allows exception under certain conditions and knows that different traditions and way of life exist . So GOD made it easy to do things legally and with transparency because adultery is forbidden.

For the individual , Qoran says that marriage is an oath, i.e each one can agree terms with their partner. You can have your term with the husband that you want a husband that can only marry you . You are entitled to agree for marriage or refuse if he disagrees with you since it is a commitment for life.
Nowadays this is easier to do in the majority of the world we live in.
You choose sister and the best choice according to Qoran is marry only one.
GOD bless you.
Peace..
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Wakas

peace,

Some criteria/guidance for marriage:
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=40

Determining mutual attraction/compatibility [2:221, 2:235, 30:21, 33:52]
Ascertaining whether the potential partner is of similar beliefs/faith [2:221, 60:10]
Discussion of and agreeing to the level of dower and other terms (if any) [4:4, 4:24]
Understanding and mutual acceptance of marriage as a solemn/strong oath/contract [4:21, 2:232, 2:237, 24:33]
If male, capable of providing for the family/household [2:228, 2:233, 4:34, 65:6]
To have physically matured / post-puberty [4:6, 24:31, 24:58-59]
To have the marriage contract/oaths witnessed [2:235, 2:237, 2:282, 65:2]
If the marriage is unsuccessful, one should also be capable of undertaking divorce proceedings, e.g. separation period, arbitration, discussion of settlement etc [2:226-232, 2:241, 4:35, 4:128-130, 33:49, 65:1-6].


For example the wife could state, as one of her conditions, that her husband that one wife only / monogamy.


Further info, polygamy in certain context only:
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=31

QuoteTo summarise, The Quran was revealed to a society where polygamy was commonplace and men could have many wives (e.g. more than four for example). By setting an upper limit, citing a moral restriction on polygamy and limiting the situations in which it is allowed would result in reducing polygamy significantly.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

reel

Polygamy isnt allowed. See:
24:32 And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

We also have:
4:129 And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive. So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

Back in the sunni days, mullahs told me "be equal" basically stood for just feeding the wives. They vehemently opposed the idea of one lady feeling left out.

Quote from: Amra94 on April 16, 2023, 12:38:55 PM
Many traditional Muslims say all men are naturally polygamous

Nope. Only some but that doesn't automatically make polygamy halal for them.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

jkhan

Quote from: reel on April 21, 2023, 08:08:01 PM
Polygamy isnt allowed. See:
24:32 And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

We also have:
4:129 And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive. So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

Back in the sunni days, mullahs told me "be equal" basically stood for just feeding the wives. They vehemently opposed the idea of one lady feeling left out.

Nope. Only some but that doesn't automatically make polygamy halal for them.

Peace Sister... Hope you are doing well...
I think it is little hefty to rush on this topic and say polygamy is not allowed...

Yes...  If one takes the verse 24:32 in one angle we may end up yes polygamy is not allowed.. Apart from all other verses which is manifested that polygamy were practiced and never discouraged by Allah  ..
When it comes to this particular verse,  it doesn't literally mean never marry widow or divorced, If one marry only unmarried... Encouragment here is manifest... Why not prioritise those who not at all married in life rather than who have already married in life..
So when Allah says by this verse marry those who never married or single doesn't directly give us a criteria that people are not allowed to marry multiple women.. Is it?
On top of that if we take the verse in this manner, suppose one man is married already has a wife (free or not free) but marrying another woman who is single.. So.. Marry those who are single doesn't mean literally polygamy is not allowed... Well don't misunderstand me.. I am not polygamous and not even married and happy being single out of destiny...  So I am not supporting but trying to stand with Quran and not even trying to belittle women and their feelings..

Further,  marry those who are single doesn't mean both party should be single.. Isn't it?

For me by verses like those guard their chastity except with wife/spouse and those ma malakat aymanakum clearly indicates that polygamy were practicedced and never discouraged by Allah and never made it forbidden  . For men I mean..

Further to that, if God states not to marry teo biological sisters at a time, then the question is what about two women at a time who are not biological sisters?  Of God said two women at time by this verse then seal for polygamy..  Unless if anyone argues that the word doesn't state biological sisters but just sisters in faith then perhaps polygamy is not allowed..
Anyway... This won't lead us to hell fire as long as we are married to one... But we better grasp what God's  law is.. So we don't blame who are polygamous..

But time elapsed and women are in abundance and men are in abundance.. So why not be happy with one in life as God's  natural system...
Mainly slaves and those ma malakath aymanakum people benefited by polygamy  for sure... Coz they were also human being with feelings...

But be satisfied with one.. As rightly said by father in law of prophet Musa,  would you marry ONE of my daughters... Just One...  One for one is wonderful family... Polygamy is but great help for other women.. Nothing else.. Did Ibrahim have two wives at a time?  Seems like had two wives but two at a time no clue..

Thank you..
[url="https://rifkyy2020.wixsite.com/expressandlearntruth/post/facts-of-al-quran-08"]https://rifkyy2020.wixsite.com/expressandlearntruth/post/facts-of-al-quran-08[/url]

Amra94

Quote from: reel on April 21, 2023, 08:08:01 PM
Polygamy isnt allowed. See:
24:32 And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

We also have:
4:129 And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive. So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

Back in the sunni days, mullahs told me "be equal" basically stood for just feeding the wives. They vehemently opposed the idea of one lady feeling left out.

Nope. Only some but that doesn't automatically make polygamy halal for them.

24:32
Could be saying prioritize marrying off those who aren't married yet. Parents finding a suitable partner for them. Like how that man wanted to marry off one of his daughters to Moses. 28:27. I think the verb for marriage is the same.

4:129
Could be saying a man can't love all wives equally and it's not his fault but he shouldn't completely neglect one. And since it's saying not to leave one hanging, doesn't that show polygamy is allowed?


I have also heard traditional Muslims say that because 4:3 says "marry two, three or four but if you fear you won't be just then marry only one", it shows polygamy is recommended because it first says marry multiple women only one if fear won't be just.

reel

Quote from: jkhan on April 21, 2023, 10:59:20 PM
Peace Sister... Hope you are doing well...
I think it is little hefty to rush on this topic and say polygamy is not allowed...
Trust me, I'm serious.
Quote from: jkhan on April 21, 2023, 10:59:20 PM
Yes...  If one takes the verse 24:32 in one angle we may end up yes polygamy is not allowed.. Apart from all other verses which is manifested that polygamy were practiced and never discouraged by Allah  ..
What he instructs is what matters right? Then there is:
33:50 O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you  and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, only for you, excluding the believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Quote from: jkhan on April 21, 2023, 10:59:20 PM
When it comes to this particular verse,  it doesn't literally mean never marry widow or divorced, If one marry only unmarried... Encouragment here is manifest... Why not prioritise those who not at all married in life rather than who have already married in life..
Nah, they are considered single:
And those who are taken in death among you and leave wives behind - they, wait four months and ten [days]. And when they have fulfilled their term, then there is no blame upon you for what they do with themselves in an acceptable manner. And Allah is [fully] Acquainted with what you do. There is no blame upon you for that to which you [indirectly] allude concerning a proposal to women or for what you conceal within yourselves. Allah knows that you will have them in mind. But do not promise them secretly except for saying a proper saying. And do not determine to undertake a marriage contract until the decreed period reaches its end. And know that Allah knows what is within yourselves, so beware of Him. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing. 2:234-235


Quote from: jkhan on April 21, 2023, 10:59:20 PM
So when Allah says by this verse marry those who never married or single doesn't directly give us a criteria that people are not allowed to marry multiple women.. Is it?
On top of that if we take the verse in this manner, suppose one man is married already has a wife (free or not free) but marrying another woman who is single.. So.. Marry those who are single doesn't mean literally polygamy is not allowed...
As we saw above, only Prophet was given the privilege. But the verse I am having trouble finding also mentions umm sons were married to their moms at the time. God told them to not divorce just because they became believer. In short, if someone married multiple women but later finds out that it isnt approved by God there is no need to divorce. We have one (inactive) brother here who practiced polygamy before coming to Quran alone. No one ever pointed finger at him for that. This community is very understanding. 
Quote from: jkhan on April 21, 2023, 10:59:20 PM
Well don't misunderstand me.. I am not polygamous and not even married and happy being single out of destiny... 
Don't you dare calling it your destiny.
Quote from: jkhan on April 21, 2023, 10:59:20 PM
Further to that, if God states not to marry teo biological sisters at a time, then the question is what about two women at a time who are not biological sisters?  Of God said two women at time by this verse then seal for polygamy..  Unless if anyone argues that the word doesn't state biological sisters but just sisters in faith then perhaps polygamy is not allowed..
Which verse?
Societies have this tendency to change here and there. That's how polygamy gets in but God wouldn't want families to break!
Quote from: Amra94 on April 21, 2023, 11:09:54 PM4:129
Could be saying a man can't love all wives equally and it's not his fault but he shouldn't completely neglect one. And since it's saying not to leave one hanging, doesn't that show polygamy is allowed?
Its more like a warning. If one of these wives feels left behind she has the right to divorce as per the next verse.
Quote from: Amra94 on April 21, 2023, 11:09:54 PMI have also heard traditional Muslims say that because 4:3 says "marry two, three or four but if you fear you won't be just then marry only one", it shows polygamy is recommended because it first says marry multiple women only one if fear won't be just.
No, they intentionally misinterpreted the verse. Its been talked about before. The verse is about pairs of women. Also starting from 4:1 shows this is an administrative instruction. I mean its for the entire community and not for each man's private life.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj