Natural Disasters

[Fusion]

Dear All.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wwQPst33LI

Is there a connection to large scale natural disasters with God's wrath or he being unhappy and punish such nations/people because of their bad deeds?
Because if yes, then we can find many examples where similar or worse nations are flourishing and no harm comes to them ever....
and if there is no relation, how can a  believer reconcile with such large scale disasters.. as surely everything that happens is with God permission.

In the past we noticed a pattern from several verses, that a prophet is sent to a nation, and that nation eventually disobey the messenger/ message and as a result god destroying that nation. It is also possible that natural disasters did also occur even with those nations but since the population and infrastructure is very small, the destruction did not have such an  impact. Moreover in case of God destroying,,, the whole nation/town is vanished from face of earth unlike natural disasters  (hence the reason behind what is their -natural disasters- explanation from Quran or is it just normal earth/universe Business as usual- part of the creation events)

Another twist of the story. Non-believers are commenting of several forums taking a religious swipe that these events happen in majority muslim areas and hence God is punishing them. How does one responds to such comments?because apparently it appears so.

Note: i already discussed this topic with a member from this forum (no names) but i wanted to know other views as well. hence the question.

[good logic]

Peace Fusion.
I am with you ,hoping that GOD will help and have mercy to all people who are caught up in disasters. They are His servants like we are all His servants.
Here is one of my posts that is  my general view about disasters and accidents in life:

Peace brothers and sisters.
I am talking to those who believe in GOD in this post. and everybody interested in reflecting.

Are we expecting this life to be perfect? Yet GOD is perfection, so why this contrast?

GOD created the weather elements for us ,the sun ,fire...etc Can we say,when these things harm/kill GOD created "evil"? So why does extreme  disasters like earthquakes, ,fire,extreme weather harm/kill people?
Suffering ,oppression,injustice occur all over the earth in all ages why?

Let us go back to the origin of this life,why did GOD set us up to be humans on earth? Why not be Angels or animals or...any other creation?
GOD created all this universe for us and restricted us to live on this tiny insignificant place-earth- compared to other bigger planets why?
GOD made earth habitable for us and made productivity so that its inhabitants will have a turn living in it why?
GOD sent us scriptures with prophets and made sure each generation had the message,why?

What is apparent  is we had no choice in where we live  or what was created in it. We are here and we are trying to make sense of why and how.

IQoran does not explain existence of suffering/evil. That part of the knowledge is with GOD and we have only been given some of the  knowledge
The message of Qoran  is a way of life; a code of conduct for successful living in the trials and tests of this life. it is not an all encompassing theory of everything

But since we are asking about it,  We want a peaceful life and a peaceful people in it. Anything that is not peaceful in its nature is contrary to the message of Qoran. In order to attain  this state , we face trials and tribulations. It is not only believers or disbelievers who do this but all other religions like Christians, Jewish believers, Hindus and above all Buddhists in their quest for the Nirvan, face tests and their success in attaining the peace depends upon their performance in those tests

A peaceful state , by design, requires a system of accountability and correction. In order to attain the perfect peace, several stages have to be passed successfully. Suffering through those stages is actually a journey and not an end in and of itself

A peaceful state of a person requires submission to GOD Alone and this is the hardest test to pass. This involves tests and tasks which are inexplicable and illogical according to human reasoning and standards. These tests may come in form of sudden catastrophes, painful affliction of innocent people and irrational loss of life and wealth. These tests qualify as truest form of human suffering and require the highest form of surrender to the almighty.

While one reflects/study/ponder Qoran to find answers to these difficult questions,what is certain is that GOD is in control,GOD does everything for good reasons and GOD is the only just judge for everyone. Complete and perfect justice for what each one deserves.

Why do we expect the life and death of everyone on earth to be the same when GOD expects one of two ways .Disasters /suffering...happens to all  but it is due to choices and decisions of the "evil ones".
Believers should accept that  this is part of life and accept whatever happens to them,knowing that  all good is from GOD and all bad is from the decisions and choices  of   either us or others that can affect us.
A verse that gives us the strength to accept whatever comes our way,good or bad and to know that as long as there are "evil people" there will carry on being disasters and suffering that will affect many innocent people and lives. Only when all are peaceful and submitting to our Creator will there be total peace and perfection:

Even if a Quran caused mountains to move, or the earth to tear asunder, or the dead to speak (they will not believe). God controls all things. Is it not time for the believers to give up and realize that if God willed, He could have guided all the people? The disbelievers will continue to suffer disasters, as a consequence of their own works, or have disasters strike close to them, until God's promise is fulfilled. God will never change the predetermined destiny.
وَلَو أَنَّ قُرءانًا سُيِّرَت بِهِ الجِبالُ أَو قُطِّعَت بِهِ الأَرضُ أَو كُلِّمَ بِهِ المَوتىٰ بَل لِلَّهِ الأَمرُ جَميعًا أَفَلَم يَا۟يـَٔسِ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا أَن لَو يَشاءُ اللَّهُ لَهَدَى النّاسَ جَميعًا وَلا يَزالُ الَّذينَ كَفَروا تُصيبُهُم بِما صَنَعوا قارِعَةٌ أَو تَحُلُّ قَريبًا مِن دارِهِم حَتّىٰ يَأتِىَ وَعدُ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يُخلِفُ الميعادَ

Suffering is  mostly a bad experience ,but can serve for awareness of the soul to return to GOD Alone for connection and protection.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[Fusion]

Thanks Good Logic your reply explains the part of suffering to us (us as humans). While my question was specific as such why the so called suffering seems selective to certain nations.?

You said "Qoran does not explain existence of suffering/evil. That part of the knowledge is with GOD and we have only been given some of the  knowledge"
Perhaps I did not understand the link here? please elaborate so kind of you bro.


Thanks again.

[Euphoric]

57:22-23
No disaster ever happens on earth nor to yourselves unless it is in a Book even before We brought it into existence. That is easy for Allah,

so that you should not feel sorry about what may have escaped you, nor yet rejoice in what He has given you. Allah does not love every conceited boaster


Not sure if these are relevant but do give an insight

[Fusion]

57:22-23
No disaster ever happens on earth nor to yourselves unless it is in a Book even before We brought it into existence. That is easy for Allah,

so that you should not feel sorry about what may have escaped you, nor yet rejoice in what He has given you. Allah does not love every conceited boaster


Not sure if these are relevant but do give an insight

I think the above 2 verses are also linked the very verse which came before:
57:21
Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.

the 21 is saying that we should not forget Allah while we have everything of this world and we should in actual fact work to achieve the hereafter despite we have all the bounties of allah provided in this world.
While the 22 and 23 is telling us that we should also work to believe in Allah and seek hereafter, despite all calamities that happened to us individually or as a group.
Thanks for your post dear. So in essence, God has written down every such incident in the BOOK before it happens and we should accept what comes to us either good or bad and not be arrogant and lose hope.

The question I want to wonder is what is that BOOK which has every thing written before it happens. Is this the LOH MAHFOOZ which was mentioned in another verse? This further cement the concept of pre-determined .

Hence one person may read and understand like everything is pre-determined, already written in a book so why should i even believe or do anything. there is no free will and am helpless.

While the other person will say , that I should not worry about things i wanted but not given or I should not believe the good things given to me are my own effort and become arrogant.

So that means these calamities (storm, earthquake) are all part of his plan to put us to test. is this fair understanding?
That means those people who are put to such test will fall under verse 22 and 23 and those who are not put to test(which are not effected by those disasters fall into verse 21 - which is another test for not forgetting hereafter and be lost in world gains which they already had and think that these are because of their own capabilities only)....?

[good logic]

Peace Fusion.
GOD Alone chooses the people of each generation and assigns them to be born at a certain time and place . That knowledge is only with GOD. We cannot understand why some generations  suffer more or why disasters strike some specific places.  That knowledge also is with GOD.
Also we have not got the knowledge to prevent a lot of disasters.

Some may argue that with Science we may be able to prevent some disasters by precise predictions, but we are nowhere near yet.

We still use probable methods to predict bad storms, earthquakes ,etc.
So disasters and evil are not in our control. We are helpless to prevent most of them.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[jkhan]

57:22-23
No disaster ever happens on earth nor to yourselves unless it is in a Book even before We brought it into existence. That is easy for Allah,

so that you should not feel sorry about what may have escaped you, nor yet rejoice in what He has given you. Allah does not love every conceited boaster


Not sure if these are relevant but do give an insight

I hope no bad feelings or grudges If I share my different opinion here..

17:58 And there is no city but that We will destroy it before the Day of Resurrection or punish it with a severe punishment. That has ever been in the Register inscribed.

So above verse not relevant to past community befire Quran... Relevant to all communities until day of judgement.

He one word is used Destruction and the other one Punishment... Destruction is manifestly visible and Punishment should be perceived though visible... So prophets sealed.. And the Destruction and Punishment came for them were with knowledge..  I mean evey town were pre-warned about destruction but they neglected or rather challenged to bring it... And note well all Destruction(not punishment without death) took place during all prophets period were totally different to natural disasters happening now... This Earth and heaven is based on nature. But whatever happens to them beyond nature.. Explanation of Quran and their destruction quite supernatural... Starting from Nova to whichever prophet it took place all different...  Such destruction don't take place now.. All natural disasters now...

Since Prophets are sealed and time is nearing as per Quran... God is gradually carrying out destruction plus punishment to every city by which those who not died or suffered the punishmnet should learn...

Difference I see now and in the past is .. When God destroyed past nations neither the Earth not the heavens weep.. Not the prophets informed them or tried to save them but they all escaped from the city..  For example.. Lut..  He followed instructions leaving his people to be destroyed.. Perhaps one can think how heartless...  But that's God... No mercy on destruction... Very prophet similar.. Even Nova though weeped for son buy realized..

And major difference I personally feel and convinced is those who were destroyed during the times of prophets were doomed to hell...

But natural disasters take place now I can't conclude they are doomed to hell.. But have a feeling believers always will be saved from natural disasters... No way God would destroy them.. God says by lightening I attack whoever I will.. It is a natural disaster but God put that disaster whom he wills.. Would God attack His true true believer by it?  No chance...


But other than natural disasters.. Like accidents disease bomb blast war etc can catch anyone be he believer or non believer.. Coz it is part of test... But destruction is not test... But it is end of test on losing cause..

Yes.. God has recorded everything... That's His way... God says let me bring better reply to those questions they raise... But God has already written in His master book.  Freewill for us but God knows how we use our freewill... Otherwise God won't promise to Iblees to fill all those who follow him in Hell..
We are created by Adam's loin even well before Adam was physically  created.. Even before the earth and heavens  were created we were and God created earth and heavens and gave us a chance.. That's my take as per verse 7:172...

God didn't create these humans to see drama on earth... And punish and reward.. No.. Our denial acceptance of God is tested.. We accepted Yes you are Our Lord.

No creature God created unless to obey Him.. Creature cannot deny the Creator...that's basic..

Further... They can classify as muslim nations.. But is it in fact Muslim  in the sight of God that's what matters... Anyway all over the world destruction do take place and it will for sure as per verse 17:58..
Brother Fusion.. No need show mercy on destruction as if God is not merciful.   Just be human.. That's enough for your safety.. Let God do His part...
Anyway even one believe in God or no one can stop destruction taking place. So who to blame? 
Finally God would never from His destruction destroy His own real Ibadi believer.. That's beyond reality.  I don't accept it.. He always saved His real believers every occasion that's proof within quran... But He won't save His real believers from what human causes unless He will. 
Thank you.. Sorry if my answer caused inconvenience but that's my take.. But I am kind..  I feel for people who died in Syria and Tukye the other day.  But God is merciful and His mercy is not equal to anything.. But His anger is not equal either.. That ehy He punishes in fire forever..
Thank you..

Additional Note: If there's No Freewill there is no belovers and disbelivers..it can happen only with freewill.. Is there anyone who thinks that believers must have been also destroyed during the time of prophets /messngers when God destroyed nations then it is only assumption... God saved all believers... Angel Messengers who came to destroy nations knew who to save who to destroy... So no point of mourning on destruction of disbelivers. 

[Fusion]

But natural disasters take place now I can't conclude they are doomed to hell.. But have a feeling believers always will be saved from natural disasters... No way God would destroy them.. God says by lightening I attack whoever I will.. It is a natural disaster but God put that disaster whom he wills.. Would God attack His true true believer by it?  No chance...

Further... They can classify as muslim nations.. But is it in fact Muslim  in the sight of God that's what matters... Anyway all over the world destruction do take place and it will for sure as per verse 17:58..

Finally God would never from His destruction destroy His own real Ibadi believer.. That's beyond reality.  I don't accept it.. He always saved His real believers every occasion that's proof within quran... But He won't save His real believers from what human causes unless He will. 

Very interesting and deep dive explanation- thank you..
In one sentence, if I understood your explanation quoted above.... what happened in Turkey and Syria is a natural disaster that falls within 17:58, which means it is from God as a punishment or say his anger or displeased with those nations..and only those will be impacted selectively who are not his believers... Because as you said God will never destroy his own real ibadi believer.

Another question is in the past if those nations were destroyed completely and only prophet and few people were saved as they were his ibadi... what about the children and women in that city? are those collateral?

[jkhan]

Very interesting and deep dive explanation- thank you..
In one sentence, if I understood your explanation quoted above.... what happened in Turkey and Syria is a natural disaster that falls within 17:58, which means it is from God as a punishment or say his anger or displeased with those nations..and only those will be impacted selectively who are not his believers... Because as you said God will never destroy his own real ibadi believer.

Another question is in the past if those nations were destroyed completely and only prophet and few people were saved as they were his ibadi... what about the children and women in that city? are those collateral?

Men or women those who not accept the messenger and keep denying is the root cause for destruction of nations then... You may be referring women indicating Lut nation.. Do you think Lut wife was lesbian or someone who supported gays... No clue.. God never destroys for only one wrong Guy always destryed nations for totally rejecting His messengers...

Regarding children I have thoroughly discussed in the past in my own topic or either in someone else's topic... I can't remember topic.. Just pls search if interested you may find an answer.. Under two life two death topic or why God destroys children.. Can't remember topic.. But search and see..  BTW.   Look for views of everyone in sha Allah...

[good logic]

Peace Fusion.

GOD is in control and has already made. the balance.
What about the disasters that humans create like murders and war and oppression? Is this not clear that  we are to blame?

By definition, the surrender to GOD is to accept that GOD does everything and is in total control and is the all knowledgeable and the only power that deserves our total submission.. i.e To have total confidence and trust that GOD does everything for good reasons . He is fair and just. No one suffers any injustice period

.So for example ,can we blame GOD for preparing Moses and His people to confront Pharaoh and his system ? Yet GOD turned the table on the evil system of Pharaoh.and tested those after him in the same way by " If humans do good and live in surrender to GOD they do it for their own good and if they do evil and conflict to oppose GOD s system ,they do it against themselves£.

The most important question to ask is: What is our role and responsibilities to live peacefully and securely here on earth all of us as brothers and sisters as one unit and one congregation?" Who sets the laws and criteria for us?

Then we may reflect that our creator always does and sets the best system for us to live in peace and total security if we only heed His message .
GOD bless you.
Peace.