7:113 26:41 inconsistent?

[Nom de plume]

What do you see as contradictory? a or b or other:

a) It is entirely possible for there to be multiple versions/hypotheticals of an event with some having attained reality, and others not having attained reality.

b) The Quran is narrating multiple versions/hypotheticals of an event that have attained reality.

peace,
did you see how I partially quoted you and did it contradict what you said?
hypotheticals are 100% contradiction and no way to tell which happened?

if in a court of law: he said "to him" OR "in it" clear contradiction!

if they said "verbatim" and he said "to him in it" no contradiction!

Also, how would the exchange between Iblees and God go? Do you see Quran 38:75 and Quran 15:32 as two separate exchanges, or do you see them as the same exchange? If they are the same exchange, why would God repeat Himself but differently? Why would God say:

15:32..."O Satan, what is the matter that you are not with the prostrators?"

and then again say:

38:75 ..."O Satan, what prevented you from prostrating to what I have created by My hands? Are you too arrogant? Or are you one of those exalted?"

exact same event read full dialog each verse
everything quoted happened attained reality!

7:12 said what prevent you that not thou prostrate when directs I you?
15:32 said O Iblis what to you that not thou being with l-sajidina?
38:75 said O Iblis what prevent you that thou prostrate to what creation I with hands two mine?
acts arrogant thou or be thou of the haughty?

fuller dialog ...
said "O Iblis what to you prevent you that not thou being with l-sajidina when directs I you that thou prostrate to what creation I with hands two mine? acts arrogant thou or be thou of the haughty?"

anyone like to try another example: "enters" or "settles"?

2:58 and when said we "ud'khulū (enters ye) this the town ..."

7:161 and when stated to them "us'kunū (settles ye) this the town ..."

[nimnimak_11]

did you see how I partially quoted you and did it contradict what you said?

Ok, so what about the following:

2:58 and when said we "ud'khulū (enters ye) this the town ..."

7:161 and when stated to them "us'kunū (settles ye) this the town ..."

"Enter" and "settle" are two different words. Either They (the Speakers) repeated the same thing twice with a change (enter and settle), or, They were talking to 2 different groups, or, the Speakers in 2:58 are not the same as the Speakers in 7:161. What's your understanding?

[Nom de plume]

Ok, so what about the following:

"Enter" and "settle" are two different words. Either They (the Speakers) repeated the same thing twice with a change (enter and settle), or, They were talking to 2 different groups, or, the Speakers in 2:58 are not the same as the Speakers in 7:161. What's your understanding?

see context; same speakers, time, to same group (Musa's people)

see differences prior examples try to solve? others welcome too?

2:58 and when said we:
"udkhulū/enters ye this the town

fakulū/so eat ye from it anyplace like you raghadan/freely

and enters ye the gate prostrate
and speak ye repentance

we forgive for you khatāyākum/errors yours
wasanazidu/and shall we increase the good doers"


7:161 and when stated to them:
"uskunū/settles ye this the town

wakulū/and eat ye from it anyplace like you

and speak ye repentance (notice flip?)
and enters ye the gate prostrate

we forgive for you khatiātikum/errors its yours
sanazidu/shall we increase the good doers"

[nimnimak_11]

see context; same speakers, time, to same group (Musa's people)

I still think it's in reference to more than one hypothetical having attained reality. It's more subtle in the Quran than in the Bible.

For example:

When the disciples saw this, they were indignant and asked, "Why this waste? This perfume could have been sold at a high price, and the money given to the poor." (Matthew 26:8-9)

Some of those present, however, expressed their indignation to one another: "Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for over three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor." And they scolded her. (Mark 14:4-5)

But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was going to betray Him, asked, "Why wasn't this perfume sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?" (John 12:4-5)

[Nom de plume]

I still think it's in reference to more than one hypothetical having attained reality. It's more subtle in the Quran than in the Bible.

For example:

When the disciples saw this, they were indignant and asked, "Why this waste? This perfume could have been sold at a high price, and the money given to the poor." (Matthew 26:8-9)

Some of those present, however, expressed their indignation to one another: "Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for over three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor." And they scolded her. (Mark 14:4-5)

But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was going to betray Him, asked, "Why wasn't this perfume sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?" (John 12:4-5)

no, again not hypothetical everything happened
Matthew Mark John are three separate hearsays
taken out of context e.g., never said ok to eat pig

https://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/5.htm
17-20 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil..."

What Defiles a Man
https://biblehub.com/kjv/mark/7.htm#14
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, "Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?"

14-15 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, "Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

https://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/15.htm
15-20 Then answered Peter and said unto him, "Declare unto us this parable?" And Jesus said, "Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man."

[jkhan]

you have logic issues! same episode retold!

7:107 so cast staff his so when it is serpent clear
7:108 and took out hand his so when it is white to the onlookers
7:109 said l-mala-u/the council of folk Firawna "indeed this surely magician knower
7:110 intended that evicted you from land yours so what hath thou directing?"
7:111 said they "delay him and brother his wa-arsil/and sends in the town's gatherers
7:112 bring they you in each magician knower"

26:32 so cast staff his so when it is serpent clear
26:33 and took out hand his so when it is white to the onlookers
26:34 said lilmala-i/to the council hawlahu/around him "indeed this surely magician knower
26:35 intended that evicted you from land yours bisihrihi/with magic his so what hath thou directing?"
26:36 said they "delay him and brother his wa-ibath/and raises in the town's gatherers
26:37 bring they you in each magician knower"

7:113 and came the magicians Firawna said they
"inna/indeed for us surely reward if be we, we are the victors?"
7:114 said "yes and that you surely among those nearer"

26:41 so to what (when) came the magicians said they to Firawna
"a-inna/is there for us surely reward if be we, we are the victors?"
26:42 said "yes and that you idhan/then surely among those nearer"

7:117 and inspires we towards Musa that throw staff your so when it is caught what are falsifying
26:45 so cast Musa staff his so when it is caught what they are falsifying

7:120 and fell the magicians sājidīna
7:121 said they "believe we in lord the worlds inhabitants
7:122 lord Musa and Aaron"

26:46 so fell the magicians sājidīna
26:47 said they "believe we in lord the worlds inhabitants
26:48 lord Musa and Aaron"

7:123 said Firawna "believe you bihi/in it before that I permit to you? ...
7:124 surely severs I hands yours and feet yours of opposite sides
thumma/furthermore surely crucifies (impales) I you all together!"
7:125 said they "indeed we towards lord ours who returning"

26:49 said "believe you lahu/to him before that I permit to you? ...
surely severs I hands yours and feet yours of opposite sides
and surely crucifies (impales) I you all together!"
26:50 said they "lā/no dayra/hurt indeed we towards lord ours who returning"

Peace everyone...

Don't argue people just as if you gonna defeat utterly another... Just ponder well...

God's explanation is so unique...  When anyone reads in  Arabic or translation you will know definitely the different way of phrasing the verses in chapter 26 and 7 about the story of musa and pharou etc...

Same story in entirely different style and different usage of words. What's wrong in it?  I don't see anything wrong in the m...
Carefully note verse 26:49 and verses 7:123-124... Did you the difference?  Yes... Former is in one verse and later is in two verses for same statement... Sane statement in two verses and same statement in one verse... Now  . .. Why not question about number of verses of Quran?  Who ordered to write like this?  As per historical evidences (take it or leave it) the chapter 7 was revealed well before chapter 26.. So why make it two verses in chapter 26? .. Mohamed or any drivers has nothing to do with verses.. It was written as it was revealed and that's how it is preserved. 
You can find so many things in these two chapters... God has skipped many verses and added many additions even words.. Why can't He? He is the Author of the book...  What's wrong in it?  For example.   7:115 is totally missing in chapter 26... It clearly indicates God deliberately skipped and added verses and words and joined verses in one etc.   If the story is in one chapter only, would you consider that that's all these people conversed and nothing else.. That's foolishness.  There would have been lot spoken but only God presented to us what He preferred.  He is the one who narrated thus Hadith to us..

So be wise..
Salam.. Thank you.

[Nom de plume]

So be wise..
Salam.. Thank you.

peace, explain variances one phrase at a time which words?

quote author=Nom de plume

2:58 and when said we:
"udkhulū/enters ye this the town

fakulū/so eat ye from it anyplace like you raghadan/freely

and enters ye the gate prostrate
and speak ye repentance

we forgive for you khatāyākum/errors yours
wasanazidu/and shall we increase the good doers"


7:161 and when stated to them:
"uskunū/settles ye this the town

wakulū/and eat ye from it anyplace like you

and speak ye repentance (notice flip?)
and enters ye the gate prostrate

we forgive for you khatiātikum/errors its yours
sanazidu/shall we increase the good doers"

[jkhan]

peace, explain variances one phrase at a time which words?

quote author=Nom de plume

2:58 and when said we:
"udkhulū/enters ye this the town

fakulū/so eat ye from it anyplace like you raghadan/freely

and enters ye the gate prostrate
and speak ye repentance

we forgive for you khatāyākum/errors yours
wasanazidu/and shall we increase the good doers"


7:161 and when stated to them:
"uskunū/settles ye this the town

wakulū/and eat ye from it anyplace like you

and speak ye repentance (notice flip?)
and enters ye the gate prostrate

we forgive for you khatiātikum/errors its yours
sanazidu/shall we increase the good doers"

Peace..
You are stubborn not fir guidance but just for argument.. What prevents you from perceiving it is your adamance... You failed to grasp Quran's  manifest verse...

Look brother... Be calm and reflect what I write...  Take it if it makes sense of leave it if you are not able to...

Direct verses of Quran and the SPEACH of Messebger with verses to people are two different things. Similarly.. The verses in concern for you is part of Torah and it was connected with Musa... So now let's detail it..
God reveals verses to Musa and not to those twelve tribes of his people.. So brother one verse is direct from God  to Musa in which both Yadhulu is written... And the other verse is the SPEACH of Musa to his people where Musa used settle... Musa doesn't need to say the same word what God used but it should befit to the situation.. Goda instructions clear and what Musa said to his people also clear.. It depended on situation... If they have already entered the town since the verse is revealed  to Musa then there is no point of parroting the verse to people.. Be pragmatic.
So in a nutshell.. they have entered the town and Musa speak to them or relay the message in practical way to people saying settle in this town and bla bla...in the town itself there is a gate and it seems very crucial so Musa used the exact wording.. Enter with humility the gate.. How they entered the town we don't know.. They were humble OR not.. But entering gate is mandatory with humility and it seems mighty power there..
So.. Messenger's relaying message to people not  necessary  to be exact as God revealed.. As I stated in one of my past posts,  for example Kul ya Ayyuhal Kafirun... Would you expect Muhamed to parrot this verse to people.. No.. Kul is not necessary... Similarly what Musa said us right by saying settle though God didnt say settle but the purpose of entering the town was to settle.
Perceive Quran as it deserves.. Thank you..

NOTE WELL: God reveals and Messengers relay but practical way and they are not parrots but depend on situation.. When needed parrot also.. But Messengers always wrote in book form what exactly God revealed not anything else.. Exact replica what revealed by Angel Messenger..

[Nom de plume]

they settled (was safe) enemies drowned

7:161 and when stated to them
uskunū/settles ye this the town
and eat ye from it anyplace like you
and speak ye repentance
and enters ye the gate prostrate (modest)
we forgive for you khatiātikum/errors its yours
sanazidu/shall we increase the good doers

17:101 and hath assuredly gave we Musa nine signs
... so, drowns we them and who with him altogether
17:104 and said we from after him to children Israel uskunū/settles ye the land


too afraid to enter forced to wander

2:58 and when said we
udkhulū/enters ye this the town
so, eat ye from it anyplace like you freely
and enters ye the gate prostrate (modest)
and speak ye of repentance
we forgive for you khatāyākum/errors yours
wasanazidu/and shall we increase the good doers

5:20 and when said Musa ... O folk udkhulū/enters ye the land ...
5:24 said they of O Musa indeed we never we enter it ...
5:26 said so that it prohibited upon them forty years wandering in the land

[Nom de plume]

to complete prior example

7:123-124 said Firawna "believe you in it before that I permit to you
indeed, this surely plan planned ye it in the city to thou evict ye from it, family its
so soon thou knowing
surely severs I hands yours and feet yours of opposite sides
thumma/furthermore, surely crucifies I you all together"

20:71 said "believe you to him before that I permit to you
indeed, he surely chieftain yours the one taught you the magic
so surely severs I hands yours and feet yours of opposite sides
and surely crucifies I you in trunks the date palm
and surely, thou know you which of us vigorous punishment and lasting"

26:49 said "believe you to him before that I permit to you
indeed, he surely chieftain yours the one taught you the magic
so surely soon thou knowing
surely severs I hands yours and feet yours of opposite sides
and surely crucifies I you all together"


fuller dialog combines above:

said Firawna "believe you to him in it before that I permit to you
indeed, this surely plan planned ye it in the city to thou evict ye from it, family its
indeed, he surely chieftain yours the one taught you the magic
so surely soon thou knowing
so surely severs I hands yours and feet yours of opposite sides
thumma/furthermore, surely crucifies I you all together in trunks the date palm
and surely, thou know you which of us vigorous punishment and lasting"

peace