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How do you define the following of Muhammad's footsteps?

Started by Shah Khan, October 20, 2022, 11:59:32 PM

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good logic

Peace jkhan.
obey the message or obey Qoran has no meaning. and will mot make sense. Follow the message or follow the Qoran has a meaning. The sender /author  of the message is the one who is to be obeyed. Following the message is obeying the sender.

  However, "obey the prophet" or "obey Mohammed" makes sense , but you will not find it in Qoran because it will contradict the message of "GOD.. It will give authority to the man- prophet Muhammed- or any human/ messenger of GOD.

Qoran always uses "obey the messenger" because it has  GOD alone as the authority . The messenger  s role is to deliver the message/words from GOD and does not contribute his own words /message with GOD s message. as well .

Qoran  as well is the messenger in 5:15-16, that clarifies for us this understanding : obeying GOD and obeying the messenger is following GOD s message:

O people of the scripture, our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from God, and a profound scripture.
يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ قَد جاءَكُم رَسولُنا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُم كَثيرًا مِمّا كُنتُم تُخفونَ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَيَعفوا عَن كَثيرٍ قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ
With it-Qoran-, God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

The source and authority of the messenger of GOD is GOD Alone. Whoever obeys the messenger of GOD has obeyed GOD by following His message and should not have to obey anything else since the message is from GOD.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

amin

In the name of Hadiths and Sunnah, many are indeed following specific  Arab culture and give importance to it, which may or may not help us, sometimes it can be very misleading with unwanted excesses, also its more of getting an false identity  rather than real goodness seeking,  its better to keep the minds open for learning and changing, leaving things to God. Dressing eating etc, should be better if copied from the native culture, modesty comes from there.

jkhan

Quote from: good logic on February 02, 2023, 05:52:37 PM
Peace jkhan.
obey the message or obey Qoran has no meaning. and will mot make sense. Follow the message or follow the Qoran has a meaning. The sender /author  of the message is the one who is to be obeyed. Following the message is obeying the sender.

  However, "obey the prophet" or "obey Mohammed" makes sense , but you will not find it in Qoran because it will contradict the message of "GOD.. It will give authority to the man- prophet Muhammed- or any human/ messenger of GOD.

Qoran always uses "obey the messenger" because it has  GOD alone as the authority . The messenger  s role is to deliver the message/words from GOD and does not contribute his own words /message with GOD s message. as well .

Qoran  as well is the messenger in 5:15-16, that clarifies for us this understanding : obeying GOD and obeying the messenger is following GOD s message:

O people of the scripture, our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from God, and a profound scripture.
يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ قَد جاءَكُم رَسولُنا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُم كَثيرًا مِمّا كُنتُم تُخفونَ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَيَعفوا عَن كَثيرٍ قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ
With it-Qoran-, God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

The source and authority of the messenger of GOD is GOD Alone. Whoever obeys the messenger of GOD has obeyed GOD by following His message and should not have to obey anything else since the message is from GOD.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace GL.
Exactly... I do appreciate...  What I highlighted above in blue is absolutely right.
I asked this question mainly coz main stream Muslims do God could have said Obey Quran or Obey Message instead of Messenger so that why we follow Prophet Mohamed.. But they unfortunately  failed.. In my understanding the verse 4:80 itself enough for them to ponder... Unless God guide who can guide...

If I add few more to brother GLs point...
.The reason why God has not mentioned OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY QURAN Is:

God has a sunnah and that sunnah he never changes.. His sunnah was from the beginning is sending a human messenger and through his mouth let the God's message be proclaimed and then messagea are reached to people. 

Second point.. God has a way of communicating to people in three modes.. I am not gonna mention here pls read verse 42:51 ... And one of them is as I said sending His message through angel to a human messenger..  At any time God won't go contrary to His basics..

Had Allah mentioned Obey Quran instead of Obey the Messenger above will be violated..
On top of that what people wanted is a printed book in which they can scroll and touch and feel and in their own language.  That God never ever did.  If Obey Quran is mentioned it directly mean messenger didn't bring the message but a complete Quran was sent from heaven. So no place for a messenger.  In case if God sent a literal touchable book named Quran then it will only end up as idoll worship of the book rather following the book.   You can imagine needless to elaborate.  .

As mentioned by GL verses 5:15-16 iy clearly says it addresses the previous scripture people.   So carefully note..
If God said obey Allah and Obey Quran (Message)  then they don't have to obey. . They already obey Allah and follow his Message I. Torah or Injeel. Since obey Allah and obey the Messenger is mentioned it means they have to follow the message of the new messenger if there is anything new or anything to avoid. 
Carefully note in the verse 5:15-16 it says  ".. Concealed in the SCRIPTURE... " Here God says our messenger has come  to proclaim many things they concealed in the SCRIPTURE. " 
So manifestly Messenger is coming with message and on top of that Messenger is on proclaiming the message of God and the messenger even only correct what is in the PREVIOUS SCRIPTURE not their other book. 
As GL said.. Obey word itself not suitable for Mesaage/Quran..

I know nothing will change within Mainstream people by reading this but at least for the sake of clarification among believers it would help...

Note: we  as modern people not obeying the messenger but we follow the message placed on him.. We can't obey him.. He is no more.. So literal We obey God and follow the instructions of God this we obey God ... All is to obey God alone..  We can't obey God completely unless we follow His instructions completly. .we can't obey a book but we can follow the book.  So God placed rightly obey Allah and obey messenger and nothing other than would suit... Even verses like obey Allah and obey the Messenger and obey those in authority woukd not suit now... There is none except God to obey...
[url="https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/"]https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/[/url]

jkhan

Quote from: amin on February 02, 2023, 11:31:33 PM
In the name of Hadiths and Sunnah, many are indeed following specific  Arab culture and give importance to it, which may or may not help us, sometimes it can be very misleading with unwanted excesses, also its more of getting an false identity  rather than real goodness seeking,  its better to keep the minds open for learning and changing, leaving things to God. Dressing eating etc, should be better if copied from the native culture, modesty comes from there.

Thank you for your comments as well.  But many are not following but it has become a religion... Do you think the hadith about isra or rather journey to the heavens and meeting all is culture... It is beyond culture and a sheer blasphemy on God's verses to fabricate what God didn't state in their whimsical approach...
[url="https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/"]https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/[/url]

amin

Yes, it has become the religion, but one who reads Quran, easily understand the wrong Hadiths, otherwise they would not have read it properly,

Yes most of Hadiths comes from the culture, the halal haram part etc, i am not against Hadeeths, but they should be seen as part of Arabic culture, as many good things are hidden in them, and still Arabs following many religiously shows the benefits in them, but for mulsims from other distant cultures, it can be misleading if copied as it is, like the way we dress and the food we eat, and even some of the timings of the fasting, the festival days and months, Being a muslim I think we need not totally reject what the ancestors here practiced, get the good part of those and leaving the false shirk parts out.

good logic

We are talking here about GOD s religion. And there is only one throughout the human existence. [t is he true Islam to GOD.
GOD  is a unique and separate entity, so is HIS religion. It comes with GOD s book/scripture. Yes only GOD s words.

Not the religion of men like Traditional Islam hijacking true Islam by including men s books-hadith- and traditions of men as holy sayings with holy practices of the prophet and companions and mixing it with GOD s sayings to give GOD s religion a partner .

Of course men s books ,any books ,are useful mostly but they have nothing to do with what GOD is sending us as a message. They should be kept separate and used in our life on other things but not on our salvation/redemption.
Only GOD s message is allowed and should be  the only source for our relationship with Him. Our religion-true Islam- is with GOD A lone.

They even got to undermine GOD s words by inventing abrogation to change GOD s verses  into their own words and steal the authority and tell lies about GOD. Like GOD did not mean it or GOD changes His mind , or GOD replaces some verses by others- total nonsense- or some animal/goat has ate the parchments that contained a verse - To put their own saying- and create their own rules/laws.

GOD s religion comes complete with GOD s own words/scripture and nothing else from anyone else is needed.
All GOD s messengers came with GOD s message - GOD s own words- complete and unchangeable
Messenger of GOD  =  GOD s own message/words. No need for men s words/books or interference. Or we do not value GOD as He should be valued.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

jkhan

6:155 And this [Qur'an] is a Book We have revealed [which is] blessed, so follow it and fear Allah that you may receive mercy

So simole as that...  Obey Allah and obey the Messenger... Principle concept of God to all communities which were sent Messengers
Now what above verse says..Yes... Nothing new... Yes obey Allah and Obey the Messenger.. But how.. Yes.. "FOLLOW IT(QURAN) FEAR ALLAH...
So simole as that... But can blind see?  Unfortunately no.. So believers only get guidance... Even the Quran itself a guidance to those who believe only..

[url="https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/"]https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/[/url]

jkhan

Quote from: jkhan on February 05, 2023, 10:24:37 PM
6:155 And this [Qur'an] is a Book We have revealed [which is] blessed, so follow it and fear Allah that you may receive mercy

So simole as that...  Obey Allah and obey the Messenger... Principle concept of God to all communities which were sent Messengers
Now what above verse says..Yes... Nothing new... Yes obey Allah and Obey the Messenger.. But how.. Yes.. "FOLLOW IT(QURAN) FEAR ALLAH...
So simole as that... But can blind see?  Unfortunately no.. So believers only get guidance... Even the Quran itself a guidance to those who believe only..

Peace everyone...

One of my friends is asking " is your door closed for sunna?"  simple answer is Yes... For truth always my door open but not FALSEHOOD...once convinced a matter is falsehood and no more compromise... Why is called a Muslim in general? coz he rejects obvious idol worship and accept God alone.. That's final.   If anyone asks, is your door closed for other gods?  Then if not say Yes.. What else..
Having said that..
Let me remind with below verse and ask an additional logical question..

We are most knowing of what they say, and you are not over them a tyrant. But remind by the Qur'an whoever fears My threat.

Okay we are also reminding with Quran coz isn't it duty of one who believes to remind with God's book...fine..

My question is...

If obey Allah and obey the Messenger led you my fellow hadith followers to take hadith books as source of law since obey messenger in your convictions is following sunnah of Prophet Mohamed .  That's how God let you perceive... So you follow hadith books of your choice where written alleged sunna .. Fine...
If Obey Messenger is Sunna and you follow Hadith book/s,  then where is the instruction from God to follow Quran in the same phrase?  Does Obey Allah and obey the Messenger phrase command you to follow Quran?  Anyones logical answer will be comprehensively and logically with truth God willing be replied... Anyones illogical and nonsensical answers will be deliberately avoided and I have presented my mindset clearly here.. 
All I do is to expose the extreme truth of the lease obey Allah and obey the Messenger...

Thank you
[url="https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/"]https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/[/url]

Fusion

You have posed insightful questions that delve into the role of hadith and the Quran in guiding our understanding of Islam. It is crucial to approach these matters with wisdom and a genuine desire to seek the truth.

As Muslims, we firmly believe in the Quran as the divine revelation, the ultimate source of guidance, and the word of Allah. It holds the highest authority in matters of faith and practice, providing us with clear instructions and principles to live by. It is our responsibility to study and comprehend the teachings of the Quran.

In the context of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), he was chosen as the final messenger, and his actions, sayings, and approvals, known as the Sunnah, offer valuable insights into the practical implementation of Quranic principles in our lives. The Prophet's Sunnah serves as a practical example for us to follow, illustrating how to align our actions with the teachings of the Quran.

While hadith collections contain narrations of the Prophet's words and actions, it is crucial to approach them with critical thinking and scholarly analysis. Not all hadiths possess equal authenticity, and it is essential to differentiate between reliable and weak narrations. Scholars have dedicated considerable effort to the science of hadith criticism, verifying the reliability of narrations.

In the Quran, Allah instructs us to obey Him and obey the Messenger. This means that we should follow the guidance and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as long as they are in accordance with the Quran. The Quran serves as the criterion to assess the authenticity and validity of any teachings attributed to the Prophet.

Thus, it is imperative to prioritize the Quran when it comes to matters of faith and practice. The Quran acts as a safeguard against misinterpretations and innovations, ensuring that our actions remain aligned with the pure message of Islam.

In our pursuit of truth and understanding, let us continue to seek knowledge, devote ourselves to studying the Quran, and approach the Sunnah with discernment and wisdom. May Allah guide us on the straight path and grant us the wisdom to navigate our quest for knowledge.
Best Regards,

good logic

Peace Fusion.
I read your post above few times, I am confused,let me explain:
You say ,quote:

"In the context of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), he was chosen as the final messenger, and his actions, sayings, and approvals, known as the Sunnah, offer valuable insights into the practical implementation of Quranic principles in our lives. The Prophet's Sunnah serves as a practical example for us to follow, illustrating how to align our actions with the teachings of the Quran."

But before that, you said,quote:

"As Muslims, we firmly believe in the Quran as the divine revelation, the ultimate source of guidance, and the word of Allah. It holds the highest authority in matters of faith and practice, providing us with clear instructions and principles to live by. It is our responsibility to study and comprehend the teachings of the Quran."

We have the same Qoran that the prophet had, but we do not have the prophet with us. So why not just follow the Qoran that was followed by the prophet to be on the safe side? Or is the Qoran we have a different one?

The Qoran we have does not tell us about any Hadith or role of Hadith, nor does it ask us to follow Hadith or sunnah of the prophet or does it? Where?

Qoran says obey GOD and obey the Messenger. The messenger passed on GOD s message -Qoran- and followed it. So we obey both GOD and the messenger by following the message we have from GOD-Qoran-.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]