Quote from: jkhan on January 25, 2023, 09:01:31 PM
Pls pay attention and read.. No compelling but beg you.
Peace everyone...
Yes we know this is a well known topic.. I mean obey God and obey Messenger.. Literally main stream end up saying Obey Allah means Quran and obey Messenger means Sunnah that is to say Sunnah written in authentic Hadith.. So they are happy with it...
What's wrong with these people while having knowledge.. Don't they use their intellect..
I humbly ask if there is any mainstream person who reads this thread.. Reflect well and answer.. I know satan has diverted but you are still on your brain.. Reflect..
Yes everyone like in the above two videos Mufti Menk and the other gentleman they reiterate obey Allah and obey messenger.. Parroting verses after verses and substantiate them to follow Hadith.. Otherwise how to pray haj Zakath Blaaa blaa they say.. So laymen people surrender.. On top of that they reiterate laymen should ask the scholars of Islam.. So poor followers end up accepting them..
But what if I say obey Messenger and obey God instead of Obey God and obey messenger.. Well.. Does it make any difference to you.. It has difference.
God is great.. I don't need to say but God himself said it... But in best way.
Verse 4:80
"He who obeys the Messenger indeed has obeyed Allah ;...."
Well.. Do you see the difference my mainstream friends.. You don't see.. Right.. But.. We do see.
Now let me replace the verse with actual scenario..
#He who obeys Hadith/sunna indeed obeyed Allah#
Hmm obey hadith then you automatically obeyed Quran.. Wow..
Your great mufti Menk Zakir Naik and all those scholars do say ..Obey Allah = Quran.. Obey Messenger = Sunnah of Prophet.. If in doubt see their videos. Before it is deleted seeing this.. Lol.
Note the grammar in verse 4:80 carefully.. He who obeys (present tense) the Messenger, indeed Obeyed (past /perfect tense) Allah..
You have to keep obeying the message of God through our life and indeed you OBEYED God.. No doubt..
Now this verse we read now... Leave us aside.. But Quran came to people of Muhamed and those surrounded while it was revealed..
Does that mean they were asked to follow the sunnah of physical mohamed and then they indeed obeyed God.? Come on don't be so insane while you have brain..
You know conventional people, you can fool among yourself but you can't hide the truth with your foolishness...
The truth is verse 4:80 literally says.. He who obeys quran indeed obeyed Allah... Why? Coz Quran is word of God THROUGH the mouth of His messenger..
but unfortunately who will reflect other than God's true believers..
Thank you..
Salam..
Salam again... Those who believe only will know the depth of what Hadith followers do say.. Easy to manipulate but they themselves get stuck within Quran...
Let me tell you a story.. I have a very good friend... I am 100% God is guiding him and he is a believer... But recent times he had lot of concerns... He says he is thorough that God does exist and there is no second thought about it... So who am I to call him Disveliever.. No way.. I know he is believer.. Tone of a person can be perceived beyond anything... But his concern is why do I need believe in books in which I feel like human infusion is incorporated... That's his concern.. But thorough logical and amicable debate and conversation with the mercy of God he realized.. So he believes in entirety of Quran now... I am sure he has enough belief to maintain it...
Now let me turn to OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER debate.. This is connected to my friend also though he didn't realize it... But I am talking to my so called mainstream muslim sunni people.
Yes you follow hadith because your scholars do say Obey Allah = Quran .... And... Obey Messenger = Hadith (sunnah).. So you follow in their footsteps...
As my friend said he believes in Allah for sure... He is convinced that there is creator even without any book by looking at all creatures/nature.. So literally He obeys Allah.. Isn't he? In fact he does. But Sunni Muslims say Obey Allah means following Quran... So here both my friend and Sunni are contradictory.. Or rather not in same line of thought.. Coz for friend without Quran he obey God but for sunni Obey Allah is obey Quran...
Is my friend right Sunni Muslims right...? In fact my friend is right.. You don't need any book to believe in God... Believers are born with God consciousness... God somehow make him or her to believe in God... But God never leave His believers in dilemma... Here comes the obey Messenger segment..
Believers already obey ie believe in God but they need more guidance and enhancement so with mercy of God He has revealed His book... So.. Believers are propelled towards His book so are eager to study and explore the book... They go through various stages... But they overcome ..
In the end what happens... They obey the Quran (Messenger) and they literally OBEYED God.. From obeying to OBEYED...
But unfortunately the Sunni Muslim they say Obey Allah =Quran and they say obey Messenger means Sunna /Hadith..
1.. So God says Obey Allah... Yes... My friend obeys Allah... And God says obey the Messenger.. Yes my friend is doing his level best to study Quran and keep obeying...
2.. So God says verse 4:80.. "The one who Obeys the Messenger..Yes.. My friend is working hard with Quran to get clarification and practice and in fact puting verses into practice. ... And God continues to say.. "Indeed OBEYED Allah"... Yes... My friend still obeying not OBEYED.. that applies if he remain constantly until his death.. Yes then INDEED He OBEYED ALLAH...
NOTE.... On top of that, Even before quran was revealed there were Muslims.. Yes among those who were given scripture before QURAN there were Muslims who believe in God and obeying His messagers... So when Quran was revealing /revealed, does Obey Allah phrase means obey Quran and leave Torah and Injeel? No way.. Those Muslims already obey Allah and there is nothing to add for them.. Then the second part.. Obey the Messenger... Now do they not obey their book either Torah or injeel.. Yes they do. . But what is new here for the.? Yes... Addition is obey Quran as well...
If we blindly think like mainstream Muslims.. The phrase "Obey Allah and obey messenger means obey Quran and obey hadith then those who were given the book before and still were Muslims will be stuck in no man's land..
I don't talk about modern day....
thank you... And thank you my friend.. Having conversations with you in fact enhanced my knowledge of the book..