The sincere Muslims will be taken out form hell-fire

[tlihawa]

Salam Shaikhrafique,

Brother tlihawa

Peace!

You have replied to my article in good manner, but you did not replied point to point, anyway. You and your other like-minded friends explained the word "Salat " according to their own point of view.

Have you decided whether the Quran is enough for you?

If so, then you will be responsible for your own understanding. You will build understanding based on your own point of view.

I'll take you to see what the situation will be if you rely on other people for your understanding,

7:38   He said: "Enter with the multitude of nations before you from mankind and Jinn to the Fire!" Every time a nation entered, it cursed its sister nation, until they are all gathered inside it; then the last of them says to the first: "Our Lord, these are the ones who have misguided us, so give them double the retribution of the Fire!" He replied: "Each will receive double, but you do not know."

7:39   And the first of them said to the last: "You have no preference over us, so taste the retribution for what you have earned!

They will blame each other. Here is another example,

33:66   On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say: "Oh, we wish we had obeyed God, and obeyed the messenger."

33:67   And they will say: "Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path."

33:68   "Our Lord, give them double the retribution, and curse them with a mighty curse."

And another one,

38:59   Here is another group to be thrown into Hell with you. "We have no welcome for them, for they shall burn in the Fire."

38:60   They said: "No, you are the ones without welcome. It was you who presented this to us, what a miserable result!"

38:61   They said: "Our Lord, whoever brought this upon us, then double their retribution in the Fire!"

38:62   And they said: "Why do we not see some men whom we used to count among the wicked?"

38:63   "Did we mock them erroneously, or have our eyes failed to find them?"

38:64   Surely, this is in truth the feuding of the people of Hell.

In fact, they still have time to look for people they think are wrong... perhaps the ones that build their own opinion..

So there is nothing wrong with building your own opinion, as long as you sincerely seek the truth from Allah's Book.

Allah is the best teacher,

55:1   The Almighty.

55:2   He has taught the Qur'an.

55:3   He has created man.

55:4   He taught him the explanation.

And you want to be patient waiting for the best explanation from Allah,

25:33   And for every example they come to you with, We bring you the truth and the best explanation.

Will you believe?

However, I would like to know your opinions about this Qur'anic verse as: -

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. ﴾Al-Ahzab: 21﴿

So, the question is: how can someone act upon this verse and follow the good example (known as uswae-hasana) of the holy Prophet PBUH, whether by following all his good examples or excluding his manner of Salat and other worships?

Thanks.

To take the lesson from that verse, you can look at the context of the story. The example of the prophet's courage in facing the Confederates,

33:21   Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God.

When he said,

33:16   Say: "It will not benefit you to flee away from death or from being killed, for you will only have the enjoyment for a short while."

33:17   Say: "Who can protect you from God if He intends to harm you, or He intends any blessing for you?" They will never find besides God any ally or victor.

This is a true hadith from Allah, said by the Prophets.. Kul means say

The Qur'an contains a lot of wisdom, which must have been spoken by the Prophet Muhammad as Allah's Messenger , as our uswae-hasana...

This verse does not justify the people after the prophet to collect the unaccountable stories about what the Prophet Muhammad said to be used as a law outside of the Qur'an.

60:4   There has been a good example set for you by Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are innocent from you and what you serve besides God. We have rejected you, and it appears that there shall be animosity and hatred between us and you until you believe in God alone." Except for the saying of Abraham to his father: "I will ask forgiveness for you, but I do not possess any power to protect you from God." "Our Lord, we have put our trust in You, and we turn to You, and to You is the final destiny."

Do you have any books outside the Quran and what God has sent down that collect the unaccountable stories about prophet Ibrahim and those with him to be your second law besides the Quran? They were also uswae-hasana..

Did you do the same for Prophet Ibrahim and those who were with him?

Salam

[hawk99]

Peace to all,

Yes, we must continue to learn the message from our lord and on the face of it doesn't seem that difficult because we have sources, we consider to be helpful some of which has helped us from childhood to the present moment.  however, are the sources of our education giving us the correct guidance: the challenge is to find the truth of what God has revealed to us as the Quran says in many ayats that you brothers have already made clear so we must define what salat is.  I personally choose " prayer, supplication, petition" "make contact" "to be in touch with" "follow closely" or "to remain attached to" my lord, I have no problem with "commitment" as an understanding. But what I must admit is there is not in the Quran the 2,4,4,3,4 rakat system.

This is salat from the project root list:
ص ل و  = Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnify, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse's body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.

musalla (مصلي) n. m. - 2:125

salat (صلاة) n. f. sing. - 2:3, 2:43, 2:45, 2:83, 2:110, 2:153, 2:177, 2:238, 2:277, 4:43, 4:77, 4:101, 4:102, 4:103, 4:103, 4:103, 4:142, 4:162, 5:6, 5:12, 5:55, 5:58, 5:91, 5:106, 6:72, 6:92, 6:162, 7:170, 8:3, 8:35, 9:5, 9:11, 9:18, 9:54, 9:71, 9:103, 10:87, 11:87, 11:114, 13:22, 14:31, 14:37, 14:40, 17:78, 17:110, 19:31, 19:55, 19:59, 20:14, 20:132, 21:73, 22:35, 22:41, 22:78, 23:2, 24:37, 24:41, 24:56, 24:58, 24:58, 27:3, 29:45, 29:45, 30:31, 31:4, 31:17, 33:33, 35:18, 35:29, 42:38, 58:13, 62:9, 62:10, 70:23, 70:34, 73:20, 98:5, 107:5
salawat (صلوات) nom. gen. n. plu. - 2:157, 2:238, 9:99, 22:40, 23:9

salla (صلي) vb.II m.
perf. act. 75:31, 87:15, 96:10
impf. act. 3:39, plu. neg. 4:102, plu. 4:102, tusalli (تصل) neg. 9:84, yusallee (يصلي) sing. 33:43, yusalloona (يصلون) plu. 33:56
salli (صل) impv. 9:103, salloo (صلوا) plu. 33:56, 108:2
musalleena (مصلين) pcple. act. plu. acc. gen. 70:22, 74:43, 107:4

LL, V4, p: 444, 445  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=SLW

God bless you                                                                                                 

[tlihawa]

Salam jkhan,

pls your thought in verses 70:22, 74:43 and 107:04 (musalleen)? Is it those who committed ?
in 4:142 those munafiqun were lazy in their commitment or in reading quran in timed salat?
and explain pls 17:110-111 as well ... So call Allah or Arrahman and recite quran in a gentle voice and in particular recite what is mentioned in those verses and magnify God.. Do it standing or whatever.. That is salat / commitment daily basis and other than that there are lot of commitments for that we are to be committed and not neglect.,.. that's what believers all about.. 23:1-10 and 70:23 onwards..

Every conventional prayer starts with a standing position and with reciting quran.. so bro Fusion nothing wrong ..

Here are my thoughts for some verses you mentioned,

1. Hypocrite - picking side in the war

4:141   Those who linger and observe you, if you have a victory from God they say: "Were we not with you?" And if the rejecters have success, they say: "Did we not side with you and deter the believers from you?" God will judge between you on the Day of Resurrection, and God will not grant the rejecters any success over the believers.

4:142   The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they stand for the commitment (SALAT), they do so lazily, only to show the people; they do not remember God except very little.

The hypocrite sitting in the both side when the war occurred between the Believers and Rejecters. Their commitment (SALAT) to defend the believers is fake, they do it half-heartedly, and just to show it. They were picking both side at the war.

Note: in this verse clearly showing that the word salat is not reading Quran at the appointed time for the Hipocrites nor make a pray to the God, it's just commitment between the people.

2. "Voice" in Salat

I have to quote the word voice above, because the word tajhar in verse 17:110 does not always mean literal voice.

The Quran is full of wisdom. In our daily lives, we will often encounter situations where we cannot clearly demonstrate our commitment to defending the truth and resisting evil.

Let me show you the example from the Quran in the story of the prophet Musa,

40:28   And a believing man from among the people of Firaun, who had concealed his belief, said: "Will you kill a man simply for saying: 'My Lord is God', and he has come to you with proofs from your Lord? And if he is a liar, then his lie will be upon him, and if he is truthful, then some of what he is promising you will afflict you. For God does not guide any transgressor, liar."

This believer among the people of Firaun, He was trying to find a way to help the prophet Musa without showing his belief. He was seek a way in between.

Now let see this verse,

17:110   Say: "Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names." And do not become too open/plain/apparent (tajhar) in your commitment (SALAT), nor too quiet; but seek a way in between.

tajhar = Jiim-ha-Ra = become plain/open/apparent/public/loud/discovered, become great/bulky, pleasingness/goodliness, clear out nearly/entirely, strove to overcome/surpass

Sometimes when I surrounded by my sunnis friend, and they asked me to go to mosque to perform namaz.. they asked me to pray, I refused to do it not by saying that I am a quranist and do not believe in what they are doing, but I look for other ways to avoid the invitation, for example by separating myself from them by other reason.

The other occasion, I was part of the social community, and they had plan to build a mosque. I just kept silence on that. I was not showing whether I disagree on that but I also not put any effort and money on it. I have to find a way in between my commitment (SALAT) not too apparent, but in the same time not leaving it behind

So brother jkhan,

as you can see, in my understanding on SALAT, is not merely reading Quran at the appointed time. It's just one of them.

I will leave other verses for you, so that you can test your understanding of SALAT and choose the best for you.

Salam

[tlihawa]

Salam hawk99,

This is salat from the project root list:
ص ل و  = Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnify, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse's body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.

God bless you                                                                                                 

Thank you for your information.. For me, "the one who follows closely / remains attached" is the best words to explain that.

Salam

[hawk99]

Salam hawk99,
Thank you for your information.. For me, "the one who follows closely / remains attached" is the best words to explain that.

Salam

Peace tlihawa, I have arrived at the same conclusion as you.