Salaam Fusion,
Quote from: Fusion on October 22, 2022, 05:28:47 AM
Good morning brother tlihawa,
I thank you for your explanation and I correct myself on what I wrote.
Alhamdulillah.
Quote from: Fusion on October 22, 2022, 05:28:47 AM
I am taking this opportunity to ask you another some what related question. not to derail the thread off topic.
Most of the people on earth (on the surface as god knows whats inside heart) indulge is some form of Shirk (the very definition that you quoted verses) and they die too in that same state. It appears to me that in every generation (say 100 years) most likel 90% falls into the category of reaching death and still not correct themselves on this shirk in essence.
Does that mean mathematically 90% of the people born since adam until last day will be going to hell forever? is this not too harsh? I hope my understanding is wrong and you correct me.
This is also my favorite question. It's gonna be long, but I believe this is very important.
I always remind my family, my kids, my siblings, my parents, my friends who share the same understanding with me,
that being a Quranist is just a beginning.
We have to implement what we already knew from the Quran, regardless on how deep our knowledge of the Quran itself.
Alhamdulillah, most of the verses that we have to implement are easy to understand and rarely debated about their meaning. These are the Muhkamat verses.
Let's take salat as example,
Some Quranist said it must be a ritual prayer, 3 or 5 times a day, or some form of contact prayer or indoctrinations, and for me it's a commitment to God's law.
People may have different views about the form of SALAT, but they should not differ in the purpose of the SALAT itself,
29:45. Recite what is inspired to you of the Book and uphold the commitment <SALAT>, for the commitment <SALAT> prevent immorality and evil deeds; but certainly the reminder of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.Whatever form of SALAT you perform,
it must prevent immorality and evil deeds.If you SALAT by standing, bowing and prostrating 3 or 5 times a day and you still doing immorality and evil deeds, then you're not SALAT.
My Salat is to uphold and maintain commitment on God's law in Quran. For examples,
- I will not cheat on my wife -- that's my Salat <commitment>
- If my own company has produce a defect product I must recall the product before harming others, even though my company must bear the loss - That's my Salat <commitment>
- I have to take care my parents and do good to them - That's my Salat
- I would not be arrogant on the street, be polite to other people, - That's my Salat
- I will keep all the agreements that have been mutually agreed, and I will do my best to fulfill my promise - That's my Salat.
- I will share twenty percent of my income (in monthly basis) to my parents, the poor, relatives, orphans, people in debt and all the recipients of Sadaqah and Infaq as described in Quran - That's my Salat.
- I will recite Quran three times a day, at dawn, twilight and evening as my commitment to understand what God wants from us
- And many more
Salat is my commitment to God's law to prevent the immorality and evil deeds.
And of course, as you said, in everyday life we can make mistakes. But the believer will always realize when they did mistake, seeking for forgiveness and will not do it again
3:135. And those who, if they commit immorality, or wrong themselves, they remember God and seek forgiveness for their sins. And who can forgive the sins except God? And they do not persist in what they have done while they know.
3:136. To these the recompense will be forgiveness from their Lord and estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein. Excellent is the recompense of the workers.
So that's the believers. All we have to do is maintain that state and die as muslim.
So now hope you will understand more the meaning of the verses,
3:142. Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God distinguishing those who would strive among you and distinguishing those who are patient?
3:143. And certainly you used to wish for death before you came upon it; so you have seen it while you were looking on.The believer, who is confident in his Muslim state condition, will strive to always stay close to God and wish his death in this best state. Because they really struggle to maintain this Muslim state and afraid of slipping. But of course this is not death in a bad way like suicide, or the crime of suicide bombing.
It's like someone taking an exam in a classroom, where they already know all the answers, and are confident enough. This kind of person does not want to linger in the examination room. They really want to immediately submit the answer sheets and see the results of their work. Because they believe they have done according to the instructions in the book (kitab).
ok now you have understood that after acknowledging the one God, then the next thing is to uphold the commitment to reject immorality and evil deeds and do good deeds.
There's no way we can enter the Jannah without it. Because you know what? Allah wants the best.
67:2 The One who has created death and life, that He may test you, which of you is the best in deeds? He is the Noble, the Forgiving.God doesn't want the average, He wants the best!
It's not an easy job to do and that's why we have to race to do good. And the consequence of this is that there will be very few people will be saved as you mentioned.
56:10 And the forerunners, the forerunners.
56:11 They will be the ones who are brought near.
56:12 In gardens of bliss.
56:13 Many from the first generations.
56:14 And a few from the later generations.If you want to talk about the number of the later generations, let me show you the percentage, my calculation from the book of revelation,
This is what will happen on the day of destruction (the last day)
Revelation 7
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;Say, if the apocalypse happened today, then only 144,000 people who live today will be saved out of the 8 billion people on earth.
So t's gonna be like 0.00000018% compare to your 10% of your calculation. Remember, Allah wants the best. So being a Quranist is not a guarantee. We have to be the best in implementation also.
The easy way, if our behavior is still the same as the 144,0000 people around us, don't expect to enter the Jannah.
After prevent the immorality and evil deeds, and also strive with the money you love (20% of your income should go to the poor, orphan, family etc)
then expect a test from God.The more you do good and carry out all of God's commands, most likely you will go through suffering as a test from God.
29:2. Did the people think that they will be left to say: "We believe" without being put to the test?
2:155. And We will test you with some fear and hunger, and a shortage in money and lives and wealth. And give good news to those who are patient.By doing good do not expect that your life will be fine and be given various pleasures, because in fact the test in suffering is something that is required so that we can enter Jannah.
2:214. Or did you expect that you would enter Jannah, while the example of those who were before you came to you; they were stricken with adversity and hardship, and they were shaken until the messenger and those who believed with him said: "When is the victory of God?" Yes indeed, the victory of God is near.This test will be very hard, you may lose your job, lose your wealth, but at the same time you are still required to do good (do charity in adversity) and prevent the evil deeds.
You will be given difficult choices, where you will be asked to choose whether to remain patient in the way of Allah, or to overcome problems in an evil way.
Therefore, even though God promises not to burden someone beyond his ability, this prayer will continue to be needed,
2:286. God does not burden a soul except with what it can bear. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. "Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bear; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, so grant us victory over the rejecting people."
2:45 And seek help through patience and through the commitment. It is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble.
So expect to be tested by Allah, because if not then it will really bad for us,
68:5. So you will see, and they will see.
68:6 Which of you are tested.having this understanding, you will see that it's really not make any sense that someone with "a spot of imaan" in his/her chest and did evil deeds for his /her whole life will enter the Jannah after being burnt in hell for his sins. No way, there's no such a way.
49:15 Believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, then they became without doubt, and they strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones.Quote from: Fusion on October 22, 2022, 05:28:47 AM
For example most of the people dominate Christians intoday world, whether they are practising or not but one thing is obvious they do consider Jesus as Lord or equate him in some form like-god which is Shirk, hence my above observation.
No matter how good those folks do... eventually hell is their destination because of this very Shirk (again the verses you quote being Son of god etc).
Let alone the Christians, many Sunni and Shia who worship Bukhari or their Imams are also looks sincere and doing good deeds. I have asked God regarding this, and He said,
4:49 Did you not note those who ascribe purity to themselves? No, it is God who purifies whom He wills, and they will not be wronged in the least.
4:50 See how they invent lies about God! And that is enough as a clear sin.So it is very important to do good deeds on top of the monotheism. 8:35. And their commitment <SALAT> at the House was nothing but noise and aversion. Taste the retribution for what you have rejected.And I know you know why
,
4:48 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.Quote from: Fusion on October 22, 2022, 05:28:47 AM
if this is so... why the creator created such a world with all its semantics (the lust, the greed etc) where it is very very very hard for one to keep on straight path (tauheed point of view).
50:30: On the Day We will say to Hell, "Have you been filled?" and it will say, "Are there some more,"
This is a very puzzling verse which brings those above thoughts into my mind. because hell is not some small space which directly means majority will end in hell in numbers. why God feels to mention this point where we have not even reach akhira... it is like saying there is no hope for masses, only few will join paradise as pre-determined.
I seek your advice on my above thoughts....
good day
Brother Fusion,
you're not the only one asking this question. prophet Ezra had also asked the same question to God, let me show you. Please read this carefully, a wisdom from Book of Ezra,
2 Esdras Chapter VII45 I answered, "I said then, O Lord, and I say now: Blessed are those who are now alive and keep your commandments!
46 But what about those for whom I prayed? For who is there of those who are alive who has not sinned, and who of the children of men hasn't transgressed your covenant?
47 Now I see that the world to come will bring delight to few, but torments to many.
48 For an evil heart has grown up in us, which has led us astray from these commandments and has brought us into corruption and into the ways of death. It has shown us the paths of perdition and removed us far from life—and that, not a few only, but nearly all who have been created."
49 He answered me, "Listen to me, and I will instruct you. I will admonish you yet again.
50 For this reason, the Most High has not made one world, but two.
51 For because you have said that the just are not many, but few, and the ungodly abound, hear the explanation.
52 If you have just a few precious stones, will you add them to lead and clay?"
53 I said, "Lord, how could that be?"
54 He said to me, "Not only that, but ask the earth, and she will tell you. Defer to her, and she will declare it to you.
55 Say to her, 'You produce gold, silver, and brass, and also iron, lead, and clay;
56 but silver is more abundant than gold, and brass than silver, and iron than brass, and lead than iron, and clay than lead.'
57 Judge therefore which things are precious and to be desired, what is abundant or what is rare?"
58 I said, "O sovereign Lord, that which is plentiful is of less worth, for that which is more rare is more precious."[
59 He answered me, "Weigh within yourself the things that you have thought, for he who has what is hard to get rejoices over him who has what is plentiful.
60 So also is the judgment which I have promised; for I will rejoice over the few that will be saved, because these are those who have made my glory to prevail now, and through them, my name is now honored.
61 I won't grieve over the multitude of those who perish; for these are those who are now like mist, and have become like flame and smoke; they are set on fire and burn hotly, and are extinguished."Hope you will understand brother. Inyasa Allah.
Salaam