Can we ever understand the logic of God?

[hawk99]

Thanks to every one for making an effort to make me understand through my queries and doubts and I really appreciate every one of you for their posts.

What makes me at peace to a certain level is the post by Hawk99.
Dear Hawk, allow me to further self understand and carry forward your way of thinking and let me know if this is correct.

God does not create this world on the basis of Justice and it would be naive to think about that. The true real life is the hereafter with all the logic an justice. This world is a perfect example of injustice and no logic that we can follow... only this way we can ever understand the happiness, sorrow, pain, suffering, relief. wars . peace. you name it. Else if every thing was perfect we would not have any issues.
Now having said that as you mentioned, it seems a world of Test (with free will). The test for those who sees in justice and do not do anything , an individual or a nation.
I think it is two things. test of patience vs test of Shukr(thankfullness). I believe those poor people who gets the worst are maybe lucky as they utter Gods name in their suffering and pain while those who are blessed (money, beauty you name it) may most likely never remember God in general.
God might be saying this world is like a play ground. 60 years? 70+ at the end all die and then the real world starts where perhaps the unfortunate ones more likely will be the blessed ones.
So on the surface the patience ones seems on the more hit but in reality the bless ones are the real losers in generic sense because the test of Shukar is the most difficult one in the sense that with all the glory and fame humans tend to forget the creator vs the oppressed ones.
Hence God created this unjust system for the ones on either side to realize the others and perhaps be guided?
The child who was born in suffering and will die one day could be a test for all other around him.her (as you also said).
So I think I should take it AS IS and if one is on the receiving end then he or she should adopt more sabr and patience because as Quran says.
57:20
Know that this worldly life is no more than play, amusement, luxury, mutual boasting, and competition in wealth and children. This is like rain that causes plants to grow, to the delight of the planters. But later the plants dry up and you see them wither, then they are reduced to chaff. And in the Hereafter there will be either severe punishment or forgiveness and pleasure of Allah, whereas the life of this world is no more than the delusion of enjoyment.

Thanks again to all.
Salam

Peace Fusion

I agree with you that Trials and tribulations can brings focus, wisdom gratitude, love, empathy etc., on the other hand if a person who has never lived under such circumstances encounters a person who has been through so much that person may be affected by the relationship in a positive way.  I cannot attribute man's injustice to Allah because indeed 'iina allah eadil Allah is the just.  This life is also real, a combination of positive and negative.   Islam requires that we use our thinking to reach logical conclusions and that we demand justice no matter the culprit.  The system is not unjust man is. Some people are grateful while others are vengeful, some turn to God while others turn to shaytayn depending on the person.  Yes, we are being tested, it is a test to make life better and bring us closer to God. To become closer to God action is required to make life better (what will we do to make life better) we should not take "AS IS" but become proactive to make changes, what if Muhammad took the "as is" approach where would we be?   Ultimately "Can we ever understand the logic of God?" that my friend is part of the unseen.

God bless you                                                       

[Sarah]

Thanks to every one for making an effort to make me understand through my queries and doubts and I really appreciate every one of you for their posts.

What makes me at peace to a certain level is the post by Hawk99.
Dear Hawk, allow me to further self understand and carry forward your way of thinking and let me know if this is correct.

God does not create this world on the basis of Justice and it would be naive to think about that. The true real life is the hereafter with all the logic an justice. This world is a perfect example of injustice and no logic that we can follow... only this way we can ever understand the happiness, sorrow, pain, suffering, relief. wars . peace. you name it. Else if every thing was perfect we would not have any issues.
Now having said that as you mentioned, it seems a world of Test (with free will). The test for those who sees in justice and do not do anything , an individual or a nation.
I think it is two things. test of patience vs test of Shukr(thankfullness). I believe those poor people who gets the worst are maybe lucky as they utter Gods name in their suffering and pain while those who are blessed (money, beauty you name it) may most likely never remember God in general.
God might be saying this world is like a play ground. 60 years? 70+ at the end all die and then the real world starts where perhaps the unfortunate ones more likely will be the blessed ones.
So on the surface the patience ones seems on the more hit but in reality the bless ones are the real losers in generic sense because the test of Shukar is the most difficult one in the sense that with all the glory and fame humans tend to forget the creator vs the oppressed ones.
Hence God created this unjust system for the ones on either side to realize the others and perhaps be guided?
The child who was born in suffering and will die one day could be a test for all other around him.her (as you also said).
So I think I should take it AS IS and if one is on the receiving end then he or she should adopt more sabr and patience because as Quran says.
57:20
Know that this worldly life is no more than play, amusement, luxury, mutual boasting, and competition in wealth and children. This is like rain that causes plants to grow, to the delight of the planters. But later the plants dry up and you see them wither, then they are reduced to chaff. And in the Hereafter there will be either severe punishment or forgiveness and pleasure of Allah, whereas the life of this world is no more than the delusion of enjoyment.

Thanks again to all.
Salam

So in a nutshell you're saying that people who have it easy here are the bad guys because God tests people he loves harder? So everyone who gets the 'test of thankfulness' through wealth, health, beauty, fame etc. is probably not a good person or that good of a person since the 'test of patience' through adversity is much harder therefore more character building and deserving of reward? But then how does that explain Prophet Suleiman- he was rich since he had a palace. Or prophet Yusuf's beauty? Sure he had his struggles too but there are people who have hardly anything at all. No wealth, health, family, looks etc. It just seems so confusing why some are more blessed than others apart from factors which are seemingly in our control such as how hard we strive for our goals.
 

[Fusion]

To sara:
Others can better answer your question.
On my part, I did not mean exactly how you perceived it from my comments.
What I have understood is the our way of thinking and logic may not be applied on behalf of the creator and he gives to who ever he wills (wisdom, fame, money etc you name it) and we cant apply our own logic to his favors (either for a single person or to a nation) only he knows why.

Ch: 21:23
The most distinctive feature of His Sovereignty is that no one can ask Him the reasons for creating the universe like He has; or why such laws are being enforced.  This means that sovereignty in the universe rests with Allah alone). On the other hand everyone else can be asked the reasons for devising different codes of life for themselves. (Being “asked” means that neither can any other code of life fit in the overall programme of the cosmos, nor has anyone else been vested the right and authority to do so.)

Maybe, perhaps, he will reveal his reasonings to us when we meet him if we deserve it. Lets hope he does, until then we can only submit to his overall scheme owing to our limit understanding.


Thanks

[Fusion]

There is something I wanna add which is perhaps what we talked here is nothing compared to the sufferings and injustices that humans inflict upon fellow humans. Forget the past where slavery was legal, even in todays time we have modern day slavery be it building the Olympics 2022 and the conditions of the labors who were hired to construct or be it exploitation by rich countries over poor ones (things like global warming, carbon emission), list goes on. These are caused  by man and as such we all will be held accountable in HIS court some day as to what we did.

So yes at one end am worried and disturbed by what i shared at start of my thread but now am equally or more overwhelmed by the atrocities humans inflict upon other humans which actually dwarf the comments you made for Sulieman or Yousef or likes. hence there is a schema of God which is test us, held us responsible and accountable for.

Cheers



 

[hawk99]

There is something I wanna add which is perhaps what we talked here is nothing compared to the sufferings and injustices that humans inflict upon fellow humans. Forget the past where slavery was legal, even in todays time we have modern day slavery be it building the Olympics 2022 and the conditions of the labors who were hired to construct or be it exploitation by rich countries over poor ones (things like global warming, carbon emission), list goes on. These are caused  by man and as such we all will be held accountable in HIS court some day as to what we did.

So yes at one end am worried and disturbed by what i shared at start of my thread but now am equally or more overwhelmed by the atrocities humans inflict upon other humans which actually dwarf the comments you made for Sulieman or Yousef or likes. hence there is a schema of God which is test us, held us responsible and accountable for.

Cheers

Brother Fusion to increase our understanding of reality we must seek to understand the words of the revelation from Allah.  That is not possible without reading what is said about the relationship between man and Iblis.  The word translated as "prostrate" to Adam gives the wrong connotation and must be defined properly.  In addition, verse "13:16" may be helpful along with the verses about Iblis in understanding a world view.

May your journey be rewarding to all of us.
God bless you.