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Quran & Hadith

Started by Zach, May 22, 2019, 06:52:58 PM

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Zach

HADITH
A reported, that B narrated to him from C, who said that he was informed by D, that he heard from E, who told him on the authority of F, that G related to him from H, who said: The prophet said...

QURAN
And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of the god; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

ade_cool

And when one shahih hadith has been proven to be a lie, there must be at least one liar in the chain of narrators (A or B or C or D or E or F or G or H or combination of them) because a lie does not just come out of nothing ...this is something that Sunnis take it lightly ...somehow they still feel secure to interpret Quran using shahih hadith books even though the liar is the same narrator in other hadiths within the same shahih hadith books.

Wakas

Some may find this a treasure trove of anti-Hadith resources:
https://ahadithstudies.wordpress.com

There are articles which specifically discuss these issues, e.g. "Even if its not true its true ? the use of unreliable hadiths in sunni islam", and "The rules of matn (content) criticism: there are no rules" both by Jonathan Brown.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

centi50

Quote from: Wakas on July 02, 2019, 11:10:28 AM
Some may find this a treasure trove of anti-Hadith resources:
https://ahadithstudies.wordpress.com

There are articles which specifically discuss these issues, e.g. "Even if its not true its true ? the use of unreliable hadiths in sunni islam", and "The rules of matn (content) criticism: there are no rules" both by Jonathan Brown.

Salam brother wakas,

Thank you very much for this site.

Does free-minds.org have Facebook page

Fusion

Hi Every one,
No doubt in Quran there is guidance and clear signs for any one who is looking to follow straight path and attained true faith in the creator.
I am not a hadith rejector nor I bash all Hadiths, I take them as a story , a historical account of the how the society of early Muslims may have looked like with true and false mixed, similar to when we read history books about how events unfold in past times in general. When it comes to guidance, its only Quran.

My question is a thought process which I want to share and seek your view.

Lets suppose I am in the time of prophet from the time first verse of Quran was revealed and until the last and during this time am with the companions and going about day to day routines (struggle, wars, Zakat, peace,  etc.). I would then be actually witnessing how the Prophet have actually been implementing the various acts of say Prayer, fasting, Hajj, marriage, and those verses of quran which fall under governance. and I would be sure that the prophet and his companions must be following as how God wants them and so.

Having said above, today we are not in those times hence we resort to only Quran verses and try to understand how do we perform these acts , some say prayer three times because its in quran, some says Hajj spread over several months, some say Prayer is nothing but just stand, bow and sujod and you can recite from quran what ever you want. Some take fasting month is few days and not whole month, I mean the list can go on an on. Here am not talking about the guidance on him being one, which is clear from so many verses. But here am talking about practical implementation..

I have known Quranists who still pray like sunnis pray with same exact procedure and process while there is no recollection of the exact procedure in Quran.
Hence hadiths or no hadiths, there has to be given some weight on some of the consensus acts which no matter which muslim sect you belong to, the steps are like 99% similar in all hundreds of years; am talking about prayer and fasting and hajj where the main central theme is same among all muslim sects .

Hence my question is if one follows only Quran and dis regard all hadiths books and disregard all consensus acts of worship then he may still be judged by God as per his intentions, and god is most forgiving. however the fact remains which is if we all resort to QURAN only implementation then in todays time we can never replicate the society of muslims as it was during prophet time.
In which case, then one may ask that the actual message of Quran is personal level, and there is no institutional level implementation of what we know religion as Islam because we cant as we lost true accounts of how it was during prophet time. One can read quran and follow personally, fine but one can not implement an established governed society if we do not have true knowledge of how it was once implemented, which may be true for any civilization.

Now if some one says God system is only confined to basic teachings like believe in one god, don't steal, say truth, and so on, then I believe this is what all religions practice with the exception of making associates with God (be it jesus, or hindus worshipping idols). and jews who actually fits on all criteria which I mentioned except that they don't believe in Prophet Mohammad.

So in the end, that means there is no need for Tabligh (the act which prophet  mohammad and moses as eg, took over to nonbelievers to spread the message of God) and hence no need for holy wars or sending messages  and missions to non believer nations or helping those unfortunate people who believe in one god but are persecuted by their masters, or any such act which the so called 4 caliphs took, as this is not any more a requirement because it was only for prophet to undertake such a journey and spread god's message.


Thanks




Best Regards,