The big contradictions in all religions v GOD s one message to all humans.

[Jafar]

Yes Jafar, but look around the reality of the world.
Are we  not accountable for what we do?
Or who is responsible for all the wickedness, oppressions and injustice?

Without any 'harm doing', what is there to forgive?
The choice between "vengeance" or "forgiveness" is always an option that one can take, out of their own free will.

Be "thankful" for the 'harm doing' as that's one chance to give forgiveness.

You may say "karma" . I say a day of justice-set aside- will come from the Created for all to witness true justice.
An atom s weight of good or an atom s weight of bad. Everything will be present  for each one.

It's known by many names, karma, what goes around comes around, reap what you sow, non-attachment, every good deed one does for it's own soul and every bad deed one does for it's own soul etc..

And as mentioned above it can be the "day" of "vengeance" or the "day" of "Forgiveness".

By the standard that you judged others you will also be judged, thus don't judge thus you shall not be judged. Forgive and you shall be forgiven. That's what Jesus, Siddharta and others recommend.
Because every events happened in accordance to the will of Abba/Father of All.

In other tradition this is known as the "Life Review Event", where every 'events' will be replayed for review and then forgiven/accepted or 'avenged/punished' depending on one's choice. Nothing shall remain 'hidden' in this universe as every thoughts of all identity/entity and events is recorded in the 'universal cloud database' to utmost clarity.

That's the backdrop why Siddharta and other Yogis said:
Forgiveness shall break the bond of karma.
Vengeance will only strengthen the bond of karma.

So let us keep doing more good and being the best we can for ourselves and all our brothers and sisters-humans-

I will say humans and non-humans alike, as everything is the children of the father, the children of the one creator.
Including the 'dark' ones..

As the 'dark' are helping others to recognize the 'light'.
The bad are helping others to recognize the good.
Haters are helping others to recognize lovers.

From my side of things,I love you brother and I forgive everyone who wronged me- you have not wronged me as far as I know- and I ask forgiveness from anyone I wronged.- if I wronged you unknowingly, forgive me-
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thank you that's the recommended approach as the forgiveness that one give to others is the forgiveness that one give to his/her own self. Because everything exist in unity, or in sufis terminology 'wahdat al-wujd'.
And every events happened in accordance to the creator's will.

"Rebellion" thus separation is a manipulation invented by religion.
Yet as mentioned above, it also help one to recognize the opposite, unity.

[shukri]

Bro Jafar,
Could I ask you something?

1. After we die, what will happen to us according to your belief?
2. What is the final destination for all of us?

Just for my curiosity!
Thank you.

[Fusion]

Very interesting discussion and thank you Good logic and Jaffer for such a wonderful communication.
I would like to ask one question to both of you please with respect to Karma or as Jafer explains it well.

In my opinion the greatest commandment and the message is to "believe in one and only one God and associate no partners in what so ever way". This is what Jesus also preached.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db-lE_f2U5I

My only question is that on the surface it looks like the bounties and blessings and success is given to those nations who appear to oppose this commandment and the reverse is handed to those nations who claim or appear to believe in one God. So where is the Karma here?

Yes you may argue the authenticity of this statement saying those who claim to believe in one God actually do not practise that  in their daily life indirectly (like cheating, stealing, bad characters etc). and those who may not believe the oneness in technical terms are honest and inventors in their lives. But despite that those people appear to be chosen by God no matter how much they associate partners with him (it happens both in west and east. In east, two countries India and China are taking the lead now both appear to be not following the commandment that Jesus mentioned).

I believe that we have to separate the Karma when it comes to Believing in Almighty, perhaps the law of universe (call it science) rewards those folks who pursue, do hard work and seek knowledge and always ready to explore the universe) and it does NOT matter what their belief is when it comes to the very core of belief which God wants ie, believe in HIM truly as the ONE.

I feel we should separate the religion and science all together and see the world of Karma in a different way (not relating to belief in GOD).

Hence my inclination is slightly towards what Good logic mentioned "Accountability". If we believe in the Judgement day then perhaps this is where every one will be accountable for his actions and ALSO Belief no matter how much successful they were in world life. Otherwise the very message and many verses of Quran where God gives glad tidings and promise of punishment to those who still practice trinity would render meaningless....

What is your opinion please.
Cheers

[good logic]

Peace Fusion.
My take is this:
We are here to develop our spiritual self or starve it-i.e or only look after our physical self and prioritise this life only-
Therefore GOD our creator has put physical laws and moral laws in use in this universe These laws are set to create a limit and allow balance.

There is physical intelligence from education and institutes and experts- our academic levels in this life-how to think and use our knowledge to get a status here .
Then there is a moral and spiritual intelligence that is from our creator to help us develop our soul in readiness for next life.

Our moral  and spiritual needs  are connected to GOD s guidance. His scripture/s is/are a source of that knowledge

Either one believes and sets out to follow/Ubud/find out/learn and develop their character to be reflecting the good characteristics of GOD. like patience, love, forgiveness,responsibility etc..knowing for certain that we are going to meet GOD and be accountable.

Or one does not believe and sets out to choose and prioritise only this life,this includes those who pretend or ridicule or ...

In short Karma may happen in this life to warn and remind the person to return to GOD, but the real big karma is the day of judgement . Each soul has either been developed or left starved. Too late for any correction or remorse.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Fusion]

Thank you Good Logic for your comments and explanation.
With all that is going on and had already happened on this planet and now that we are able to collect the data and read about it. I some times feel that the whole concept of Life/Earth in this universe is set out as an illusion or a simulation as many folks have talked about this concept lately, some say by a supreme far more intelligent post human species etc.

However when I read about the so called Accountability that you so also talked about it is the only reason I feel at peace and  I had to say that there is lot more to the simulation meaning there is life after this life and then there is going to be a judgement and based our our behavior on this planet/life. we may be judged by almighty and perhaps he will grant the righteous the promised heaven...isa


 

[amin]

Belief in one God itself is based on believing in Goodness of everyone, and the common goodness provider.

Quran says to each one has their own way, goodness is revealed through many ways even now, its ignored in the name of cult worship. Economic development of communities never show the right blessings, so many attrocities and evil things are behind these, good and bad are in every place, everything has two faces, so thank for the goodness and beware of the bad things is the wise thing to do. Most of us are hiding behind organized entities be it religions or govts and do all kind of atrocities of hate, we will be exposed and punished.

The world teaches us and communities learn whats good and bad, ex. the practice of
eating beef, is considered  good in some societies and bad in some, yes it can be. Those who milk them use them for cultivation etc normally has seen the benefits of those animals and so consider them auspicious and against killing and eating but others do not and need not. So we accept both as to each has their own way.

We believe whatever said in TVs, politically biased, false hyped ads, misleading people bright and knowledgeable people expose but these are ignored for our own individual benefits, we even oppose those and fight those people like the killing of the prophets in the past.

[good logic]

Peace All.
Here are my reasons for opening this thread:
1- My wrestling with Qoran and my journey towards finding satisfactory explanation /s- i.e there could be different explanations of the same verses providing they do not contradict or make other verses contradict each other. If it is from GOD- and one believes it is GOD s words- then GOD never ever contradict Himself, errs or forgets or gives false information.-  By definition and nature of GOD the ALL KNOWLEDGEABLE.

2-Whenerver I come up with a contradiction in my understanding, considering I am studying GOD s words- I stop and check  properly exhausting all the possible avenues. . Yet all the time I find that with many verses, my search is ongoing.

3- If I was to summarise where I am , I will quote the following verse: 13:17

"He sends down water from the sky, causing the valleys to overflow, then the rapids produce abundant foam. Similarly, when they use fire to refine metals for their jewelry or equipment, foam is produced. God thus cites analogies for the truth and falsehood. As for the foam, it goes to waste, while that which benefits the people stays close to the ground. God thus cites the analogies.
أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّماءِ ماءً فَسالَت أَودِيَةٌ بِقَدَرِها فَاحتَمَلَ السَّيلُ زَبَدًا رابِيًا وَمِمّا يوقِدونَ عَلَيهِ فِى النّارِ ابتِغاءَ حِليَةٍ أَو مَتٰعٍ زَبَدٌ مِثلُهُ كَذٰلِكَ يَضرِبُ اللَّهُ الحَقَّ وَالبٰطِلَ فَأَمَّا الزَّبَدُ فَيَذهَبُ جُفاءً وَأَمّا ما يَنفَعُ النّاسَ فَيَمكُثُ فِى الأَرضِ كَذٰلِكَ يَضرِبُ اللَّهُ الأَمثٰلَ

Water falls down and mixes with dirt and rubbish, then undergoes a journey in the river of mud and confusion then filters underneath in the rocks as pure drinkable water. Through this process , it has a difficult and pressing journey. It is getting rid of he rubbish it carries slowly only through all the difficulties and "Adhab" then it becomes "Adhbun /drinkable.
Throughout our life ,we are mixing and learning all sorts of mixtures and ,like the water we are carrying all sorts of rubbish and debri/confused,broken info.  and falsehood . We need to get rid /filter ourselves towards some kind of purity /dispose falsehood.

To be continued...GOD willing.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[Emre_1974tr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXA38GeVM6k

[good logic]

Are religions of men not many and varied?
Islam is not a religion. Islam to GOD is a state of mind

Those who do not believe in GOD or accountability  will reject all religions They at least take a consistent stand 
Those who claim to believe in GOD and follow men s religions are all divided into different religions and different sects within each religion, How can this not be a big contradiction  since there is only one GOD?

GOD does not give different religions and divides each religion into sects. This is inconsistency and cannot be from GOD

Also GOD does not ask anyone to fight others that have different religions since He has given everyone the freedom of choice of beliefs. GOD is just  and will not contradict Himself. One has the right only to defend themselves against aggression.

If one believes in true Islam to GOD , one s state /purpose will include  to follow GOD s message and upholds GOD s way of life in that message. That way of life should include the relationship and  good  behaviour with all his fellow peaceful humans .

Passing on the message can be done with amicable advice and peaceful means. Argue the best way by what is best amicably. Since we are all humans , we must be prepared to accept others "best" if it is clear to us it is better than our"best".. Not adapt a "my mind is made up"attitude."

GOD bless.
Peace.