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Unintentional murder

Started by kaamil, August 07, 2022, 08:03:06 AM

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kaamil

In case you mistakenly killed somebody in an accident, is it compulsory to fast for 60 days non stop or you can break the fast and complete it later?
no attempt must be made to enslave man mentally, it is his destiny to be free.

Aladin Azra

You probably think about 4:92. You cannot skip to that point, because it's not what you probably think. "Fasting" (Siyaam) here means restraint in two open contacts. We're excluded from killing "free for free, slave for slave, female for female", but still people can take revenge in an affect. So, we were told that in two open contacts a killer should restrain from killed person's family, having no personal contact, nothing which could lead to some bad consequences.

Similarly, 58:4 talks about restraining from women in two open contacts in case of Zihaar. Here's also no personal contact is allowed, since even a smallest can lead to some intimate contact ("touching" is forbidden in 58:3).

"Freeing a slave" here means that "a slave" is somebody who's bound by something he has done, killing or Zihaar he made. He's one who needs to be free of his actions. In case of murder if a person haven't got "release" from killed person's family he had to "fast", same is if a person does Zihar and he hasn't got "release" from his wife for his sin.



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Noon waalqalami

Quote from: Aladin Azra on August 07, 2022, 12:03:18 PM
You probably think about 4:92. You cannot skip to that point, because it's not what you probably think. "Fasting" (Siyaam) here means restraint in two open contacts. We're excluded from killing "free for free, slave for slave, female for female", but still people can take revenge in an affect. So, we were told that in two open contacts a killer should restrain from killed person's family, having no personal contact, nothing which could lead to some bad consequences.

Similarly, 58:4 talks about restraining from women in two open contacts in case of Zihaar. Here's also no personal contact is allowed, since even a smallest can lead to some intimate contact ("touching" is forbidden in 58:3).

"Freeing a slave" here means that "a slave" is somebody who's bound by something he has done, killing or Zihaar he made. He's one who needs to be free of his actions. In case of murder if a person haven't got "release" from killed person's family he had to "fast", same is if a person does Zihar and he hasn't got "release" from his wife for his sin.

Then prove it? Never see you translate a verse in context with the words next to each other?

Likewise, implement it e.g., how long (days) is شهرىن shahrayni/lunar cycles two, start today?

4:92 ... وتحرىر and liberate رقبه neck (captive/slave) مومنه believer (female) فمن so who لم not ىجد find فصىم so abstinence (fast) شهرىن shahrayni/lunar cycles two متتبعىن successive two

Likewise, as some incorrectly suggest; does not equate feed one poor for each day abstinence (fast) etc.

5:89 فكفارته so reparation its اطعم feeds عشره group of ten (10) مسكىن poor من from اوسط average ما what تطعمون thou feeding اهلىكم household/family yours او or كسوتهم clothe them او or تحرىر liberate رقبه neck (captive/slave) فمن so who لم not ىجد find فصىم so abstinence (fast) ثلثه group of three (3) اىام days ...

58:4 ... فمن so who لم not ىجد find فصىم so abstinence (fast) شهرىن shahrayni/lunar cycles two متتبعىن successive two من from قبل before ان that ىتمسا touch dual فمن so who لم not ىستطع is able فاطعم so feeds ستىن group of sixty (60) مسكىنا poor of ...


Aladin Azra

Noon, I'm not a teacher. I can and want to give only hints, so others can think about if they like. Sometimes hints are in one word, even one letter, sometimes they're in much broader set of letters. But, I'd try to explain to you (not to teach you) where from I got this I talked about.

If you look very start of 4:92 you'll notice that it's about a MU'MIN killing other mu'min. What is told is:

QuoteAnd it haven't happen for a MU'MIN to kill a mu'min, except (in a state of, due to accusative after) mistake...

But let's examine a word I (and many others) translated as "mistake". It's khaTa' خَطَأً. Its root talks about sins as errs/mistakes, meaning not intentional. Even without intention deeds are still sins. That person is bound by what he did.

Imagine that in a place where you live somebody plays with a gun and kills somebody without intention. Will he be free without any consequences? Or he'll be imprisoned and judged, probably not the same as if he killed with intention?

So, who needs taHreer (release, liberation, freeing) and of what? Do you think that people follow Allah's guidance if there're slaves in chains in their society?

Release OF reqaba mu'mina, why? Reqaba is a potential as khaTa' is potential, why? Both are potentials because khaTa' should be examined, if a killer had an intention to kill, and reqaba is a potential because this word means that he is potentially monitored, watched. For what? For his intention and for eventual revenge. Thus, he needs to be released of that. But why feminine? This is a great wisdom for us. This is a story of ONE MU'MIN as a killer, and reqaba is telling that it's one person monitored, as khaleefa means "one khaliph". Mu'mina is an adjective of reqaba and thus feminine, but it can be for both males and females. You can find this, for example, as 'emr waaHida (a single 'emr), even 'emr is masculine.

In any case murderer should be released. If not, then he has to "fast". For two months? Nah! But we already talked about šehr, šuhoor and ešhur. If you think that murderer who's not released of his khaTa' should fast for 2 moths I ask you for a wisdom of that, just think about it. I'll tell you why I think it's in "two open contacts".

Have you ever been so angry to somebody that you could kill him for something he done to you, and you didn't want to forgive him?

The Qur'an is not trying to make robots of us, but it's teaching us real things from our real lives. Allah knows us best and He knows what we're capable to do. He wants, as I understood, family of killed to cool down even they don't want to forgive, and a killer should ask from Allah forgiveness by regretting.

I really think that classical translations are imposing something unreal to us, and they didn't translate this good.



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kaamil

I can't make sense of what is being said here.
I asked a simple question.
Do you have to fast for 60 consecutive days?
Can break it and make sure you complete it?
Can you feed others as ransom?
If you have paid diya to the family of the deceased do you still have to fast?
no attempt must be made to enslave man mentally, it is his destiny to be free.

Noon waalqalami

Quote from: kaamil on August 07, 2022, 03:19:55 PM
I can't make sense of what is being said here.
I asked a simple question.
Do you have to fast for 60 consecutive days?
Can break it and make sure you complete it?
Can you feed others as ransom?
If you have paid diya to the family of the deceased do you still have to fast?

peace kaamil, follow exactly verbatim as stated.

https://corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/4/verse/92/manuscripts/73/page/18r



Quote from: Aladin Azra on August 07, 2022, 02:51:50 PM
Noon, I'm not a teacher. I can and want to give only hints, so others can think about if they like.

Aladin, that is obvious from your posts which are "brainstorming" sessions making simple things confusing e.g. womenfolk, lunar cycles, etc., and cannot implement simple stuff like how many days to fast when it's clearly written.

focus on words "in context" forget  language dictionaries (perhaps use old Arabic poetry) to get meanings.

peace!

Aladin Azra

Quote from: kaamil on August 07, 2022, 03:19:55 PM
Do you have to fast for 60 consecutive days?

No. And no days mentioned.

Can break it and make sure you complete it?

No, since it's not about fasting in a sense of not eating, drinking but restraining of talking with ones who won't free a killer of blame.

Can you feed others as ransom?

No.

If you have paid diya to the family of the deceased do you still have to fast?

You can pay only if they free you of blame, and thus you don't need to "fast".
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