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The Qur'an as muSaddiq

Started by Aladin Azra, July 19, 2022, 09:20:24 AM

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Aladin Azra

The Qur'an is muSaddiq مُصَدِّق for previous scriptures. This word is an active participle form II. Active participle means that something or somebody is doing some task, in this case described by the root Sad-dal-qaf. Verbal form II is used for causing main form I verb (actions, states, happenings).

:offtopic: Our languages mostly don't have variety of verbal forms as the language of the Qur'an, so they cannot express all verbs correctly. For example, the root Tay-ha-ra is used for purity as state. Basic verb used as yaThurne يَطْهُرْنَ in 2:222 is talking about women in a state of pureness, but verb form II cannot mean the same, but speaks of an action (not the state) to bring something to the state of pureness, ie. to clean something. Verb form V is a reflexive of form II so it speaks of an action to bring self to the state of pureness, ie. to clean self. Even this is easy to understand for this root, it's not the case for all the roots, but anyways we should follow this pattern, that the verbal form II always describes an action by which the main meaning is caused, no matter if that meaning is an action, state or happening.  :offtopic:

The root Sad-dal-qaf describes something correct, which can be truth, soundness, truthfulness, etc. By the Qur'an itself we can find that previous scriptures were altered in many ways, even the whole "books" were added, removed, changed. One of examples can be found in 2:102 which talks about Suleymaan wasn't kaafir, as some "books" claim, and moreover it talks about so-called "Book of Malachi" as a writ by two melek, namely Harut and Marut.

If the Qur'an claims that previous scriptures were altered, as it is, then how come muSaddiq mean "confirming"?

As an active participle form II, muSaddiq describes the Qur'an as something which persists in causing previous scriptures to be correct. If they are already correct, muSaddiq could mean that the Qur'an is giving proves for their correctness, which is not the case. All the stories in the Qur'an which can be found in previous scriptures differ, sometimes in some details but sometimes in everything.

This is why we should discard this meaning "confirming (something)" or "proving (something) to be true", and have to keep in mind that these scriptures are altered and not true. Thus, muSaddiq for the Qur'an means that the Qur'an is making them to be correct by telling what is not correct in them. In this case, this participle could be translated as "corrector".

So, the Qur'an as muSaddiq isn't confirming previous scriptures, but it is correcting them. Due to this, those who follow previous scriptures should have in mind what the Qur'an said about what they have in their scriptures and use this to correct errs in their scriptures.



Ordo ab LICENTIA.

nimnimak_11

QuoteIf the Qur'an claims that previous scriptures were altered

I don't think the Quran does this.

I don't think the Bible has been altered or tampered with. But I haven't read all of it, but that which I have read, seems like it is a product of divine inspiration that has not been tampered with.


good logic

Peace Aladin Azra.

First we need to define what is a scripture?
Scripture is supposed to be GOD s message/ words brought by GOD s messengers. So in essence GOD s words are unchangeable. like:

Torah: GOD s message to Beni Israel like what was brought by  Moses, David, Solomon...and other prophets to them
Injeel-Gospel- What Jesus brought.
Qoran, what Mohammed brought.

Now Qoran is not saying the bible is a scripture, the bible is a mixture of many books with different authors and has not been sent by GOD through a messenger.
So Qoran cannot be talking about the bible.
Qoran does confirm past scriptures but also gives new laws/instructions...etc It confirms the basic Islam to GOD that He sent to all His messengers.

So where is the Torah and Injeel that GOD sent down?

Beni Israel  and their covenant to stay with GOD s deen and protection first:

وَلَقَد أَخَذَ اللَّهُ ميثٰقَ بَنى إِسرٰءيلَ وَبَعَثنا مِنهُمُ اثنَى عَشَرَ نَقيبًا وَقالَ اللَّهُ إِنّى مَعَكُم لَئِن أَقَمتُمُ الصَّلوٰةَ وَءاتَيتُمُ الزَّكوٰةَ وَءامَنتُم بِرُسُلى وَعَزَّرتُموهُم وَأَقرَضتُمُ اللَّهَ قَرضًا حَسَنًا لَأُكَفِّرَنَّ عَنكُم سَيِّـٔاتِكُم وَلَأُدخِلَنَّكُم جَنّٰتٍ تَجرى مِن تَحتِهَا الأَنهٰرُ فَمَن كَفَرَ بَعدَ ذٰلِكَ مِنكُم فَقَد ضَلَّ سَواءَ السَّبيلِ
GOD had taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we raised among them twelve patriarchs. And God said, "I am with you, so long as you observe the Salat, give the Zakat, and believe in My messengers and respect them, and continue to lend God a loan of righteousness....

They were entrusted to keep/preserve GOD s words and follow GOD Alone and His words   but:

فَبِما نَقضِهِم ميثٰقَهُم لَعَنّٰهُم وَجَعَلنا قُلوبَهُم قٰسِيَةً يُحَرِّفونَ الكَلِمَ عَن مَواضِعِهِ وَنَسوا حَظًّا مِمّا ذُكِّروا بِهِ وَلا تَزالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلىٰ خائِنَةٍ مِنهُم إِلّا قَليلًا مِنهُم فَاعفُ عَنهُم وَاصفَح إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ المُحسِنينَ
It was a consequence of their violating the covenant that we condemned them, and we caused their hearts to become hardened. Consequently, they took the words out of context, and disregarded some of the commandments given to them. ...

So they choose to follow Men s words that changed the meaning and context and corrupted the Deen and called it Judaism.

And after them followed those who called themselves Christians:

وَمِنَ الَّذينَ قالوا إِنّا نَصٰرىٰ أَخَذنا ميثٰقَهُم فَنَسوا حَظًّا مِمّا ذُكِّروا بِهِ فَأَغرَينا بَينَهُمُ العَداوَةَ وَالبَغضاءَ إِلىٰ يَومِ القِيٰمَةِ وَسَوفَ يُنَبِّئُهُمُ اللَّهُ بِما كانوا يَصنَعونَ
Also from those who said, "We are Christian," we took their covenant. But they disregarded some of the commandments given to them. Consequently, we condemned them to animosity and hatred among themselves, until the Day of Resurrection. God will then inform them of everything they had done.

The same thing happened, disregarding GOD s words and following their own version and fabrications.

Qoran was asking them to follow "What GOD has revealed" to them through their messengers. Only GOD s words, not the bible  that contains a mixture - books authored by men mainly -or any men s words.
Then GOD is inviting them to follow Qoran-The new Scripture- that confirms GOD s Deen and is also MUHAIMIN- Contains everything they seek for salvation , a last scripture that consolidates all scriptures :

يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ قَد جاءَكُم رَسولُنا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُم كَثيرًا مِمّا كُنتُم تُخفونَ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَيَعفوا عَن كَثيرٍ قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ
O people of the scripture, our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from God, and a profound scripture.
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ
With it, God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.

In other words , this last scripture is going to be preserved by GOD to all the generations .No other scripture of the past is needed,since it contains everything GOD s deen requires to be saved.

Unfortunately your fellow Traditional Muslims have done the same , they are following Hadiths-Men s words- that they fabricated and discarded GOD s words that are ironically preserved by their own mouths.

The bible may contain some fragments of past scriptures ,but it was man made not GOD sent. Qoran never asked them  follow the bible or even mentioned the bible.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

shakeel

Corrector would be مصحح. Therefore I doubtt that it means mousadik. Then the only way out of this one is that the scripture around the prophet's time and area (Arabia) was not the new and old testament we have now, especially the new testament.
Maybe there was just one book, such as the gospel of Mark, or the Apocrypha of Thomas.
Or something else

good logic

Does the Gospel of Mark fit "What GOD has revealed" statement? Which messenger of GOD came with it?
Qoran is asking the people of the book to judge by GOD s scripture only .i.e What GOD has revealed"-GOD s words only!

Of course the bible as we have it now existed at the time of Mohammed. It was collected in the 3rd century, but Qoran is not talking about the bible either. because GOD did not reveal a scripture called the bible through a messenger.

What is so difficult about not getting it? GOD and His scripture-WORD- is the only authority and law to follow. Why do you think GOD kept renewing His message otherwise?
GOD does not need any partner to write books for Him and call it "GOD s scripture".
Hope you get what GOD is saying to us in Qoran:
Follow what is revealed by GOD . Do not follow any idols. Do we not understand the severity of following men s words/explanations/books?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

TellMeTheTruth

Salam!

There was also a book well-known to the medieval people in the middle east and that book was called "The Secrets of Moses" or "Asatir" or اساطیر. When people listened to Quran, they said that it is Asatir (mentioned in 9 ayats).

Peace!

good logic

The bottom line here is simple:
Did GOD send scripture? GOD s message/words? Which one/s?
So, if one can find evidence of a book sent by GOD, then that scripture is "what GOD has revealed". Ultimately, only GOD s scripture has GOD s laws and can be the only guidance that should be followed.
Yes, the question that needs to be answered is:
Is what people call scripture ,really from GOD? What is the evidence?
Then, one can be certain.
GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

jkhan

Quote from: TellMeTheTruth on July 11, 2023, 06:09:42 AM
Salam!

There was also a book well-known to the medieval people in the middle east and that book was called "The Secrets of Moses" or "Asatir" or اساطیر. When people listened to Quran, they said that it is Asatir (mentioned in 9 ayats).

Peace!

Salam..

Anyway 'Asatir ' is an Arabic word.  I don't quite agree with you unless you substantiate with glaring evidences.  No need to say awwaleen everywhere if it is a name of a book.   Well there couod be many books for sure of awwaleen. Even Tulmad would have been there. Lol... But Asateer is a book and if anyone claims then, boy you have to prove. That's beyond probability...

Thank you.

@good logic..  Yeah you sound Okay for me..
Quote from: good logic on July 11, 2023, 04:55:36 PM
The bottom line here is simple:
Did GOD send scripture? GOD s message/words? Which one/s?
So, if one can find evidence of a book sent by GOD, then that scripture is "what GOD has revealed". Ultimately, only GOD s scripture has GOD s laws and can be the only guidance that should be followed.
Yes, the question that needs to be answered is:
Is what people call scripture ,really from GOD? What is the evidence?
Then, one can be certain.
GOD bless.
Peace.
[url="https://rifkyy2020.wixsite.com/expressandlearntruth/post/facts-of-al-quran-08"]https://rifkyy2020.wixsite.com/expressandlearntruth/post/facts-of-al-quran-08[/url]

TellMeTheTruth

Quote from: jkhan on July 11, 2023, 09:44:36 PM
Salam..

Anyway 'Asatir ' is an Arabic word.  I don't quite agree with you unless you substantiate with glaring evidences.  No need to say awwaleen everywhere if it is a name of a book.   Well there couod be many books for sure of awwaleen. Even Tulmad would have been there. Lol... But Asateer is a book and if anyone claims then, boy you have to prove. That's beyond probability...

Thank you.

@good logic..  Yeah you sound Okay for me..

Salam brother!

I am sure that the other books were well-known as Injil and Torah. Asatir is a different word. Since every chapter of Asatir starts with "In the name of the God" or "In the name of the Most Merciful", therefore, I think the Quran was related by the listeners with Asatir of اولین. Moreover, its language style resembles with Arabic language instead of Hebrew or Aramaic styles.

Still I do not have any solid evidence for this, so anyone can comment.

Peace!

good logic

What GOD has revealed/sent cannot be from anyone else.

!What GOD has revealed  is GOD s own words/message. Called GOD s scripture.

Unless one is 100% certain , no doubt whatsoever, that they have "GOD s  scripture"  with them it remains a claim,an assumption.

Therefore ,without certainty , one cannot say for sure this is  "what GOD has revealed".

Otherwise why would GOD bother to send His own words and insist that Only GOD S message /scripture has the law and authority to instruct /command/ guide His religion?
Also if anyone else shares the authority and uses their own words/books , they would become a partner with GOD and we will be following two authorities or more!!!
GOD s words should always be intact and separate from men s words.
GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]