Author Topic: Which side is the true moderate Muslim?  (Read 593 times)

Emre_1974tr

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Which side is the true moderate Muslim?
« on: July 06, 2022, 10:55:04 AM »
People who follow the Qur'an alone as a source of religion and follow the true Islam are nowadays being called "fresh water Muslims".

In other words, people who turn to the true religion in the Qur'an are being portrayed as people who are not very devoted to Islam, who half-live the religion by softening it according to the conditions of the day.

The reality is quite the opposite. Muslims who have no other religious source other than the Qur'an are the most conservative and loyal to the original form of their religion.

It is only those who follow the religion in the Qur'an who are able to live the religion in its fullest sense, to lead their lives according to Islam.

In fact, since Islam offers the most progressive and beautiful philosophy of life, those who follow this path do so not because they are trying to adapt the religion to the modern age, but simply because they live the religion in its true form.

In fact, those who are "moderate and fresh water Muslims" are those who have adopted the teachings of the sects and hadiths.

They are so moderate that they have taken circumcision and stoning from the Jews, the hijab from the Christians, and asceticism, seclusion and associates from other teachings.

Those who follow the teachings of hadiths and sects follow a "moderate" path in terms of adherence to the Qur'an, that is, in terms of adherence to Islam, since they accept other sources besides the Qur'an. They are so moderate that they have even taken many elements from Hinduism and spiritualism.

On the other hand, those who say "Qur'an alone" are conservative in nature and do not adopt any non-Islamic elements as a religion. They do not allow superstitions near them.


(my Turkish article translated with  machine)

https://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/07/gercekte-lml-musluman-hangi-taraf.html?m=0

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Aladin Azra

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Re: Which side is the true moderate Muslim?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2022, 02:10:16 PM »
Which word you understand as "religion" in the Qur'an. since you said that people who follow the Qur'an are conservative and most loyal to some original form of their religion?

In any case, I think that being conservative is totally wrong, and it's one of the main reasons why muslims live in Middle Ages or maybe even in Prehistory. We should be nothing as our fathers, except in obeying Allah in what we personally understand, and our kids should be their own persons, not our copies. Following ancestors is totally wrong and there're many examples in the Qur'an, as well as practical examples in everybody's life.
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Emre_1974tr

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Re: Which side is the true moderate Muslim?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2022, 03:26:00 PM »
Which word you understand as "religion" in the Qur'an. since you said that people who follow the Qur'an are conservative and most loyal to some original form of their religion?



Taking the Qur'an as the sole source of religion and turning towards true Islam is conservatism. It is to remain steadfast in truth and goodness, not to be corrupted. It is to embrace religion in its original/first form.

On the other hand, those who adopt the teachings of hadith, sects and Sufism are reformists, innovators and change-makers.

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Aladin Azra

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Re: Which side is the true moderate Muslim?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2022, 12:31:31 AM »
I agree on that (except conservatism), but which word(s) from the Qur'an you take as "religion"? What you call "religion" is maybe Allah's Deen, which is the Law. But if you take religion as eemaan (belief) it's really very simple, since we have to believe in Allah and Aakhiret at first, then, if we wanna be guided we should have a belief in Allah's kitaab and mediums in melaa'ika and His resool. So eemaan (or if you take it: religion) is just a "ticket" for the Qur'an as our guidance. We have to study it constantly and not be conservative, we should always recheck our views and let it to teach us, not to be its teachers.

I understood that Allah put a few of His Hudood (boundaries), which we should not cross. But within Hudood area is a vast space for us and we are free to chose our own ways to move, as Ibrahim has been choosing his ways.
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Emre_1974tr

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Re: Which side is the true moderate Muslim?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2022, 03:10:17 AM »
I agree on that (except conservatism),

It is also conservatism to accept the information given in the Quran as you learn it. There you adopt the first, purest form of religion. You are turning towards the original form of religion. So you have the same vision as the Prophet. You are embracing the old.

This is the conservatism I am talking about here. On the other hand, those who adopt the teachings of hadith, sects or Sufism are reformists, innovators and change-makers (in the field of religion).

We must remain forever constant in truth and goodness. We must be conservative.

What you are talking about is "realizing what is wrong and abandoning it". We should be conservative in good and right, not in wrong and evil.

To be conservative, to be progressive, to be perverted, these are not in themselves good or bad. what matters is what you are conservative about, what you are progressive about and what you are perverted about. For example, deviation is good if it is a deviation from wrong to right.

 to be fixed in the wrong is bad, to be fixed in the right is good. For example, it is right to hold the view that God exists and is one forever.

In the same way, fighting is not good or bad in itself. If you are fighting to defend yourself and your homeland, it is good and must be done. But if you do it to attack others and do evil, it is bad and should be avoided.

A knife is neither good nor bad in itself. If you use it for cooking, it is good, but if you use it for evil, your love of knives is bad.

Going back to my first point, Muslims who say Quran alone are conservative. They follow the religion in its original form. They are against superstition and paganism, against changes in religion. What is perfect and true remains eternally fixed and should remain.

Even the forms are fixed in Paradise(you are always young). There is no poverty, suffering, sickness or death. Happiness is fixed forever.

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Aladin Azra

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Re: Which side is the true moderate Muslim?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2022, 03:55:33 AM »
I don't talk about being stubborn and pursue what's wrong, but I talk about that we should always re-check our believes, which is our religion, no matter if we think we're doing good or bad. If religion should be constant than Allah wouldn't ask us to think about many topics. By re-thinking and trying new conclusions we're changing our religion. Thus religion shouldn't be constant and we shouldn't be conservative towards our religion. There're just belief in Allah and Aakhiret, and if one wanna be guided 3 more believes, which should be constant, all other should grow in us as we grow.

If a teenager learns "religion" from his ancestors and never question it, he's in a problem.

Just to clear, I don't stand with hadeeth followers, they're for me ehl-ul-kitaab, nor sects, nor sufis, which are the same as Greek sophists or (new-age) gurus, made up by Persian buddists as many other sects of muslims. What I'm saying is that if you think that religion is deen or eemaan or both then I don't agree that we should be conservative towards religion, but we should always question it, and we should strive to find new ways to implement Allah's Guidance in our lives.
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Emre_1974tr

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Re: Which side is the true moderate Muslim?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2022, 04:17:34 AM »
I don't talk about being stubborn and pursue what's wrong, but I talk about that we should always re-check our believes, which is our religion, no matter if we think we're doing good or bad

The knowledge in the Quran does not change. By questioning you reach the knowledge in the Quran, so you become a conservative.

The Quran says that God exists and is one. You come to this knowledge and adopt it. You accept the truth, the oldest and fixed knowledge. The truth does not change.

How many times a day is prayer, how many days is fasting and how to fast? You come to this knowledge and you go back to the original religion. This is the greatest conservatism.

What you are talking about is the process of reaching this true knowledge. There, of course, you question. You will question everything. And it will forever show you the truth every time you question.

It is very clear what I mean when I say that we should be totally conservative in religion. We should be constant in goodness. We should be constant in correct knowledge, forever and ever. And what you are talking about is the process of reaching these fixed truths.

For example, doing evil is bad, doing good is good. You have to stick to this truth forever. You have to be conservative.

I am not talking about the process of arriving at what is good and what is wrong. If you strive with a pure heart and sincerely, you arrive at the truth and you remain fixed on it. Nobody can make you deviate to the wrong (deviation to the wrong is bad, but deviation from the wrong to the right is good). Even if people around you torture you, you have to remain steadfast in truth and goodness. you have to be conservative.

Hey why are you making me explain the same things over and over again, I have already explained them :)

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