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Is astral projection real

Started by Sarah, June 30, 2022, 12:28:02 AM

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Aladin Azra

Interesting translation by Pervez. Btw, jinn is something/somebody far in space or perception, ie. alien/stranger, and if this is about creatures they're always human, but stranger to the subjects. In surah Jinn (72.) these jinn are talking about jinn (strangers) to them.

In Antic and Middle Ages people knew that dirt is causing food to rotten and can cause illness, since they didn't know exactly why they named it jinn, cause it was out of their perception. Later, when microscope discovered, humans discovered many of these jinn and called them bacteria, fungi, etc.

Theoretically, there could be some creatures we cannot see, since our eyes register only visible light (a small part of light), but I agree that these creatures would have solid bodies, Creatures of fire and air are just myth, since Allah told that He created all out of water, and air and fire cannot be a container for water, only "earth", solid things.
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jkhan

When I read most of the threads here how pathetic it is.. Seriously...
When people say something bring evidence from Quran for what you speak. .dont discard Arabic grammar as well.. Word usage by God.. People are not bothered to state whatever they want..
May God guide us...
Assumptions are not  truth eventhough it truth.. ... Truth is only truth... Not while it was assumed..
Some of malaika God has given the capacity to shape shift or disguise... Of course according to Quran to the shape of human being.. They have soul though they are in the shape of human...
Don't ever neglect the fact that Jinn were created well before human (Adam)  and they are different... Though every creature needs water the basic of material for creation of Jinn is fire while for human it is soil..
Human that I and you see are not jinn... Don't speak what you have no knowledge of..
[url="https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/"]https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/[/url]

Sarah

Sahih International: 'And He created the jinn from a smokeless flame of fire.' 55:15

Jinn are not made from fire, they're made from 'smokeless fire'. For all we know, it could mean electricity (though I'm not claiming it is). Perhaps they're made of gas but I still think their nature is spiritual and in a different dimension to the material realm although they can also be a part of it.

The jinn being just a different type of human theory doesn't make sense because jinn are invisible. We cannot see them but they can see us. even if you were to say, it's more about not knowing their minds since their minds are different, that still wouldn't make sense because we also don't know human beings' minds inside out. But then again, maybe I'm wrong here if the original verse I posted only refers to the bad jinn i.e. Satan and his tribe:

'O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that he might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.' 7:27

I wonder if prophet Sulaiman could see his jinn workers...

Even if we were to entertain the idea of jinn being a different type of human, why is it that nobody has or at least 99.9% of people have never seen a human who can get an object from a different place at the speed of light? That would be equal to a person teleporting...it always made more sense to me that a creature with such ability cannot possibly be human.

Plus, why would God make a distinction between humans and jinn as if they're a different species if they're not?


'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

jkhan

Quote from: Sarah on July 01, 2022, 11:02:17 PM
Sahih International: 'And He created the jinn from a smokeless flame of fire.' 55:15

Jinn are not made from fire, they're made from 'smokeless fire'. For all we know, it could mean electricity (though I'm not claiming it is). Perhaps they're made of gas but I still think their nature is spiritual and in a different dimension to the material realm although they can also be a part of it.

The jinn being just a different type of human theory doesn't make sense because jinn are invisible. We cannot see them but they can see us. even if you were to say, it's more about not knowing their minds since their minds are different, that still wouldn't make sense because we also don't know human beings' minds inside out. But then again, maybe I'm wrong here if the original verse I posted only refers to the bad jinn i.e. Satan and his tribe:

'O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that he might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.' 7:27

I wonder if prophet Sulaiman could see his jinn workers...

Even if we were to entertain the idea of jinn being a different type of human, why is it that nobody has or at least 99.9% of people have never seen a human who can get an object from a different place at the speed of light? That would be equal to a person teleporting...it always made more sense to me that a creature with such ability cannot possibly be human.

Plus, why would God make a distinction between humans and jinn as if they're a different species if they're not?

Well assumptions are good but we should not deduce it to be perfect...

God has clearly used NAAR which is none other than fire... Yes fire can be of any nature... Like God says Min Marij  Min Naar... But we cannot say it is smoke less..
Furthet iblees prove he was created by fire.. Mere fire..
Further God says in 15:27 He created Jinn Fire shamum.. Fire scorching.. Scorching here is correct in my understanding...  Check all shamum verses..
Whatever it is buy Basic is Fire...
[url="https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/"]https://awakenwithalquran.wordpress.com/[/url]

Aladin Azra

Quote from: Sarah on July 01, 2022, 11:02:17 PM
Sahih International: 'And He created the jinn from a smokeless flame of fire.' 55:15

As matter of fact, 55:15 is not talking about jinn, but jaann, as an opposition to insaan in 55:14. In this context, these words mean "spiritual" (soul) and "material" (body) component of humans. Twice, in 27:10 and 28:31, Musa's staff turned into jaann. In these occurrences jaann is translated as "snake", because in 7:107 and 26:32 word thu'baan ثُعْبَان was used instead of jaann and they understood is as "a snake", so they thought jaann in previously mentioned aayaat is also "snake". But thu'baan can mean instability and telling that Musa's staff had some unstable form, it wasn't solid, as in "magic shows" some smoke appears.

In the first occurrence in 15:27, we were told that jaann is created out of naar es-semoom. This is literally "fire of poison". Scientist discovered that all energy we have comes from what they called "pyrophosphate". This name comes from Greek "pyro" for "fire" and "phosphorus" for "poison" (they called poisons phosphor), and we would have no energy without them, and even women could not be pregnant without it.

"Sounding clay" from which our material body was made is explaining how we "hear voices" in us, they echo inside, thus our bodies are like pottery (ceramics).

Verb khaleqa خَلَقَ used in these aayaat is not just about creating something (out of something else), for which a verb je'ale جَعَلَ is appropriate. Khaleqa means planning and perfectly conducting a plan to create something. Name el-Khaaliq is more Architect then Creator (which is Jaa'il). You can see both verbs and names are translated same, which is impossible. So, whenever khaleqa is used it's about perfection of creation, which correlates with creation's reason for creating, ie. we were given all we need to achieve what we were created for. In these cases we were given a material which makes an energy we need for living, and we can hear echo of voices within us.
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Aladin Azra

Quote from: Sarah on July 01, 2022, 11:02:17 PM

I wonder if prophet Sulaiman could see his jinn workers...


Jinn workers for Suleymaan are strangers, Phoenicians who worked on temple. Some of them are also called šeyTaans. This word in general means that somebody is going over bounds constantly. In my language we have 3 words from the same root, namely "mašta", "taština" and sujeta", of which "mašta" means "imagination", and other two mean "vanity" and "conceit". For these builders being šeyTaans means that they used imagination to build things for Suleymaan, they were not ordinary builders, which is why he used strangers to build.
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Emre_1974tr

Quote from: Emre_1974tr on July 01, 2022, 11:45:24 AM
Of course it's physical. And he's talking about now, not in the apocalypse.

I repeat, angels, jinns, human beings...they are all physical and material. Even Paradise and hell are material.

The belief in an immaterial spirit world comes from satanic and perverted spiritism.

The verse you cited also talks about material angels supporting the good while they are still in the world. If you read the whole paragraph you can easily see the truth.

There are no spirits/souls, there are no ghosts.

By the way, we also see in the verses that the jinn have an advanced civilization, both underwater and space travel. They were created long before us and it is normal for them to be advanced in science and technology.

Peace

And very special and exceptional people, such as martyrs and prophets, are already living physically in the Hereafter universe called the Lord's Floor.

No souls, no ghosts:

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611687.0
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Emre_1974tr

Quote from: Aladin Azra on July 02, 2022, 03:51:01 AM
Jinn workers for Suleymaan are strangers, Phoenicians who worked on temple. Some of them are also called šeyTaans. This word in general means that somebody is going over bounds constantly. In my language we have 3 words from the same root, namely "mašta", "taština" and sujeta", of which "mašta" means "imagination", and other two mean "vanity" and "conceit". For these builders being šeyTaans means that they used imagination to build things for Suleymaan, they were not ordinary builders, which is why he used strangers to build.

If you read all the verses about the jinn and the whole Qur'an in its entirety, you can easily see the fallacy of this.

Some so-called Quran-only people say there is no prayer/salaat, no fasting, no pilgrimage, no jinn, no angels, and they are talking nonsense.

They call jinns germs or human, angels natural phenomena. The pantheistic Sufis even say that Allah/God does not exist. According to them, God is the representation of the system and the universes themselves are the so-called god.

And again they try to present their perverted communist beliefs as if they were from the book.

You can try to validate your beliefs, including atheism, from the book, either by tweaking verses, giving symbolic meanings to verses, or ignoring certain verses... by deceiving yourself of course...

Peace
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Aladin Azra

Bro, no need to tekfeer me. If you wanna discuss bring your Hujjaat or ask me to explain better anything you want, or just cool off and skip. I'm not all-wise nor all-knowing, I'm saying what I've learned from the Qur'an about the world we live in. I've found in history that Phoenicians were builders of Solomon's temple, because there were no builders like them in that time. I've already found that jinn is something out of perception/senses, so I connected the dots. I don't know about your issues with sufis, they can believe whatever they want. Every man has his reasons.
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Emre_1974tr

Quote from: Aladin Azra on July 02, 2022, 10:51:05 AM
Bro, no need to tekfeer me..

No, I'm not talking about you anyway, calm down, man. No need to panic. You are questioning in good faith.

Peace

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