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Fasting until night not sunset

Started by Amra94, February 27, 2022, 10:27:13 AM

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Amra94

2:187 And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread. Then complete the fast until the night (layl).

36:37  And a sign for them is the night. We remove from it [the light of] day, so they are
in darkness.

2:17 Their example is like the one who lights a fire, so when it illuminates what is around him, God takes away his light and leaves him in the darkness not seeing.


Wakas

Quote from: Amra94 on February 27, 2022, 10:27:13 AM

36:37  And a sign for them is the night. We remove from it [the light of] day, so they are
in darkness.

If you think night/layl = total darkness can you explain how its possible to remove light/nahar FROM it?

Is it possible to remove water from a cup if it has no water in it?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Amra94

When you are emptying a cup, you don't say the cup is empty until the last drop has fallen out. Likewise, when the sun is setting and light is being removed, you don't say it is night until the last light of day has been removed

jkhan

Quote from: Amra94 on February 27, 2022, 10:27:13 AM
2:187 And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread. Then complete the fast until the night (layl).

36:37  And a sign for them is the night. We remove from it [the light of] day, so they are
in darkness.

2:17 Their example is like the one who lights a fire, so when it illuminates what is around him, God takes away his light and leaves him in the darkness not seeing.
I don't know to what extent you are convinced that according to Quran we should breakfast TILL Night falls, but for me it is certain that we should breakfast till night falls i.e not at Sunset but when civil lights are faded off and when you need the artificial light.. that means you are in darkness not enough light ... two ends are same for me.. I mean the time to stop eating at dawn (when clear white thread appears from darkness) and time to break it (Clearly darkness crept in / overtook light with the absence of clear light) ...

36:37 word Naslah means PASS / MOVEAWAY / SEPARATE etc..
"And a sign for them is the NIGHT. We pass (MinHu) of/from IT (Night) Day(Nahar), so they are in DARKNESS.
Night is Darkness undeniably...
For all these what is the key? SUN + LIGHT.. mere object SUN is meaningless if it doesn't possess its light...
.... We all know LIGHT comes FIRST then comes into visibility the object SUN.....
... We all know object SUN disappears FIRST and LIGHT fades last gradually...
This is called SUNLIGHT... This SUNLIGHT is called DAY/NAHAR
Absence of IT (SUN+LIGHT=SUNGLIGHT), is called NIGHT / LAIL
Now note the verse 36:37... What is the SIGN here? NIGHT... it means DARKNESS... God says "We PASS of/from IT day... it means completely DAY/NAHAR is PASSED... for example even small portion of eclipse is still eclipse until completely become normal .. if it is a solar eclipse, the black object visible in front of it should completely pass, then only the Eclipse is no more.. Just coz light appeared you can't claim eclipse is over.. same logic..
God Created Day and Night and not the THIRD ONE... so any part of the Day(24hrs) is either Night or Day not in-between...
So according to the verse 36:37 the sign is NIGHT and God passes DAY(SUNLIGHT) away from it (DARKNESS) so we are in NIGHT.. That's Night for sure..  

simple example ... take a torch in dark room and circle it on the floor... you will see light pass from darkness.. KEY here is DARKNESS is permanent.. so God passes/withdraw (Naslah) the nahar from the fixed darkness so we are in DARKNESS.. Nahar is withdrawn from it..that's the verse 36:37
Let us die with guidance

truth

Peace,

I would concur with Wakas here.

The light is removed from 'layl' meaning that it must contain some light to begin with. This would commence from sunset quite sharply until astronomical twilight, as light in the visible spectrum is 'withdrawn'.





"the Knower of the Unseen, and He reveals unto none His secret,
Save unto a messenger whom He has chosen, and He made an affirmer before him and another follow him.

Wakas

peace,

Quote from: Amra94 on February 27, 2022, 06:33:45 PM
When you are emptying a cup, you don't say the cup is empty until the last drop has fallen out. Likewise, when the sun is setting and light is being removed, you don't say it is night until the last light of day has been removed

Your above statement assumes night = total darkness. That is what we are trying to determine.

Perhaps truth put it more eloquently: "The light is removed from 'layl' meaning that it must contain some light to begin with."

Background reading:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1152.0

And a sign for them is the layl, We strip/peel/remove from it the nahar, whereupon they are those in darkness. [36:37]

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Amra94

It's not assuming, everyone knows what night is. If you're saying night has light in it then what is total darkness called?

Noon waalqalami

peace

36:37 واىه and sign لهم for them الىل the night نسلخ we withdraw منه from it النهر the daytime فاذا so when of/behold هم themselves مظلمون dimness being

above is allegoric doesn't mean completely dark

literal definition once the sun falls below horizon

91:1 والشمس wal-shamsi/and (by) the sun (f) وضحها waduhaha/and (by) brightness its (f)
91:2 والقمر wal-qamari/and (by) the moon (m) اذا idha/when of تلها talaha/follows it (f)
91:3 والنهر wal-nahari/and (by) the daytime (m) اذا idha/when of جلها jallaha/display it (f)
91:4 والىل wa-al-layli/and (by) the night (m) اذا idha/when of ىغشها yaghshaha/covered it (f)


jkhan

13:10 It is the same [to Him] concerning you whether one conceals [his] speech or one publicizes it and whether one is hidden by night or conspicuous by day.

night and day verses are very clear in Quran and making it complicated unnecessarily is effort worth nothing...

chapter 91 is very clear as we have discussed many times in this forum.. it is SUN+BRIGHTNESS/LIGHT... that's what get covered by NIGHT...

if in the First verse of chapter 91 only SUN is there it very fair enough feminine word usage is referring to SUN... but Wa'shamsi Waduhaha is one verse.. it is two in one.. it is dual.. feminine and masculine is intermingled, ... then from second verse onwards only God uses word 'Idha" (when)...

it is obvious... and non one can take it as only sun.. God didn't use only SUN in the first verse of 91:01... more than enough evidence.. God is swearing BY not only SUN but also BY BRIGHTNESS...
Let us die with guidance

Wakas

Quote from: Amra94 on February 28, 2022, 12:37:29 PM
It's not assuming, everyone knows what night is. If you're saying night has light in it then what is total darkness called?

You have added another assumption = "everyone knows what night is". If you really think so, go to a park or somewhere where there are people and AFTER the sun has set, give it a minute or two, (i.e. it is clearly twilight), and ask 10 random people "what would you call this time: daytime or nighttime? Let us know out of 10 how many say daytime.

And as to your question Quran tells us "ghasaq al layl" in 17:78 (i.e. without twilight).

#####

Please note that "min" is a partitive (denoting a grammatical construction used to indicate that only a part of a whole is referred to):
And a sign for them is the layl, We strip/peel/remove from it the nahar, whereupon they are those in darkness. [36:37]
Also note that "whereupon" is from "fa idha" which literally means "so/then when" where "idha" is a time adverb. One can read many occurrences of "fa idha" in Quran:
https://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=%3Ci*aA#(36:37:7)


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]