Author Topic: Question about producing a chapter like quran  (Read 612 times)

Mahdi20

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Question about producing a chapter like quran
« on: September 02, 2021, 01:11:23 PM »
In the name of the most merciful

Hello, first of all im sorry for my bad grammar, im not a native speaker.

in 2:23-24 and in 10:38 , god challenge mankind to produce a chapter like chapters of quran, if nobody can, then quran is from god, so my question is, what is special about chapter 108 or 110, is that hard to bring a chapter like it? i believe that quran is from god, but im so confused on this, in my opinion even regular people can produce surah like 108 or 110.
And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly....

jkhan

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Re: Question about producing a chapter like quran
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2021, 02:51:03 AM »
In the name of the most merciful

Hello, first of all im sorry for my bad grammar, im not a native speaker.

in 2:23-24 and in 10:38 , god challenge mankind to produce a chapter like chapters of quran, if nobody can, then quran is from god, so my question is, what is special about chapter 108 or 110, is that hard to bring a chapter like it? i believe that quran is from god, but im so confused on this, in my opinion even regular people can produce surah like 108 or 110.

Peace... Brother...

Interesting query.... Anyway the question was to the people of Mohamed and to the people who were living while Mohamed was living as a Prophetic Messenger... Otherwise this challenge has huge flaws...

1... Who will scrutinize the chapter be it small or big in case if they produce one...
2... Can any of the learned Arabs or a person who is well versed in Arabic has the authority to judge what they produce..
3... Suppose Mr.  A produced a three verses chapter today and presented in this forum, who are we to judge whether this chapter is equal to Quran's  any chapter... Challenge could be in any language.. English French Arabic Hindi... But no one has authority..
4... So.. We have to deduce that challenge was those who lived while the Quran Messenger was alive and most probably in Arabic ... Why?  Coz mohamed was a messenger who spoke Arabic... Most of all he is the one literally has to challenge in the name of God this challenge...Mohamed cannot challenge on his own if one produced a chapter.. Coz QURAN is not Mohameds verses.. Definitely there would have been far learned people than mohamed during his period.. So how mohamed accept callenge... So all from God alone.. But through messenger..  Further.. God challenged.. The one who challenged cannot be silent... So in case if they produced a chapter... God has to reply pointing out the weakness of human and Jin...  So Mohamed is the right person a messenger to deal with it... But it seems it has not worked out... I mean it seems no one has produced a chapter... Coz QURAN is silent on that... Not coz they produced and Allah couldn't respond... But no one could...
For me with logic.. Challenge is over.. Coz Allah won't send a prophet messenger again to debate with those who produce a chapter or 10 chapters... Even they produce it may look pleasant to read.. But how can it be equal to God's chapter... God is the right one to reply.. Coz He was the one challenged.. And why others need to involve in judging what they produce....

So dear brother... It is not about how easy it look to produce.. But challenge is terminated... No one produced and never will produce...

If you have any other way of explanation.. Pls elaborte...
Thank you...

Additional comments..

Now I would like to combine this with Hadith... Mohamed was illiterate as per authentic Hadith... So even they produce how mohamed can read and understand... Okay leave reading part.. Let's hope he listens to the forged chapter,  but how will perceive which one is better.. Quran chapter or forged chapter... It is impossible for mohamed to argue with erudite Arabs in Arabic language...  Or one would say mohamed would have given the task to any other believing literate group or person... But where is authority...

We all believers know mohamed was literate person according to many a glaring Quranic verses... But still he can't have the authority to judge the forged chapters..  That's clear by these verses that mohamed followed only Quran... Coz nowhere in Quran it is mentioned  that they produced a chapter like Quran's... Had they God would have explained it through messenger...  But it is missing in Quran.. So. It is further confirm Mohamed didn't receive anything other than Quran as message...

Mahdi20

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Re: Question about producing a chapter like quran
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2021, 05:06:27 AM »
Hello again, generally  I agree with almost all of the your answer, but in one place you said that there was no attempt  during prophet life, but what about last verses of surah called poets?(26) , aren't this verse about attemps to producing a chapter like Quran? And some historians(generally  I don't agree with hadih, and history) said that during last 2 years of prophet life someone named مسیلمه بن حبیب produced some chapters, his chapters are funny and aren't equal to Quran, but aren't the verses I mentioned earlier related to مسیلمه attempt? But I'm so thankful of your convincing  answer, and also I want to hear other opinions to, peace
And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly....

jkhan

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Re: Question about producing a chapter like quran
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2021, 07:58:15 AM »
Hello again, generally  I agree with almost all of the your answer, but in one place you said that there was no attempt  during prophet life, but what about last verses of surah called poets?(26) , aren't this verse about attemps to producing a chapter like Quran? And some historians(generally  I don't agree with hadih, and history) said that during last 2 years of prophet life someone named مسیلمه بن حبیب produced some chapters, his chapters are funny and aren't equal to Quran, but aren't the verses I mentioned earlier related to مسیلمه attempt? But I'm so thankful of your convincing  answer, and also I want to hear other opinions to, peace

Final few verses of chapter 26 has no where near has any interrelated connections to your topic... 

God guide us from concocted stories...

tlihawa

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Re: Question about producing a chapter like quran
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2021, 09:11:14 AM »
In the name of the most merciful

Hello, first of all im sorry for my bad grammar, im not a native speaker.

in 2:23-24 and in 10:38 , god challenge mankind to produce a chapter like chapters of quran, if nobody can, then quran is from god, so my question is, what is special about chapter 108 or 110, is that hard to bring a chapter like it? i believe that quran is from god, but im so confused on this, in my opinion even regular people can produce surah like 108 or 110.

Salaam,
let me quote the full context here,

10:37   This Qur'an could not have been produced without God; it is to affirm what is between his hands, and to give details of the Book in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

10:38   Or do they say: "He has invented it!" Say: "Then bring a chapter like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful."

10:39   No, they have lied about that which they had no knowledge, nor has its interpretation come to them. It is also how those before them denied, so see how was the retribution of the wicked!


So before make a similar one, one must first understand the meaning of the source to be imitated. On that context, God knows, that they had no knowledge and they never got the best interpretation.

So if they don't know the true meaning of the target books, then how come they can create the similar one?

Understanding the Quran is a lifelong job to me. I'm waiting the best explanation from God and upgrade my understanding when it comes

25:33   And for every example they come to you with, We bring you the truth and the best interpretation.

But this is really a personal thing,

27:92   "And that I recite the Qur'an." He who is guided is guided for himself, and to he who is misguided, say: "I am but one of the warners."

One thing that fascinates me about the Quran, is the multiple interpretations it produces from people who read it.

Can you create a book that you can select who will understand and who won't? And it really based on their behavior and the Author's mercy?

Hope you will get my point of view.

Peace

Mahdi20

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Re: Question about producing a chapter like quran
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2021, 11:05:02 AM »
Wow! That was a great answer , thank you . Yes , different interpretations  is a special feature for quran, i dont know why i havent noticed that. i remember first time i saw the 4:34 translation of اضربوهن=Beat , when i read this translation i almost desert quran, but the merciful god guided me with the true meaning of the word(leave them, seperate from them). Peace  :handshake:
And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly....