Author Topic: False oaths  (Read 1622 times)

centi50

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Re: False oaths
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2021, 06:45:14 AM »
Salam to all

I thank everyone who gave my question a time

God bless you all and increase us in knowledge

Green Anarchism

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Re: False oaths
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2021, 10:40:17 AM »
Does this verse say people can make false oath and then redeem themselves by feeding 10 poor people or fasting 3 days

Or am I not understanding this verse

  • 5:1  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:2  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:6  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:8  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:11  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:35  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:51  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:54  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:57  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:87  You who have iman! ...



    "INTENTIONALLY"

    • Why do they not produce a clear authority concerning them? (18:15)

    Say: ´Produce your witnesses to testify that Allah made this (PORK) haram.´ If they do testify, do not testify with them and do not follow the whims and desires of people who deny Our Signs, and who do not have iman in the Next World and make others equal to their Lord (6:150)

    • 5:5  Today all good things have been made halal for you. And the food (pork) of those given the Book is also halal for you and your food is halal for them. So are free women from among the muminun and free women of those given the Book before you, once you have given them their dowries in marriage, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. But as for anyone who rejects iman (PORK IS HALAL), his actions will come to nothing and in the Next World he will be among the losers.(5:5)

    • Pork is halal




  • 5:90  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:94  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:95  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:101  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:105  You who have iman! ...

  • 5:106  You who have iman! ...


centi50

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Re: False oaths
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2021, 06:49:11 AM »
Salam,



This is a misleading statement: in this verse, feeding 10 poor people or "fasting" 3 days, or whatever it is, is the punishment (kafara in Arabic in the verse) of making false oath, not a price to pay to get allowed to make false oath.

It is exactly like in our modern world: if you drive above the speed limit, you can get a fine.
But it is incorrect to state that you are allowed to drive above the speed limit provided you pay some amount of money.

One can find that the punishment is too light but that's an entirely different problem.

Salam bro,

So the punishment of taking and knowingly a false oath is expiation (kafara) in 3:89?


God bless all

Anoushirvan

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Re: False oaths
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2021, 02:40:40 AM »
Salam bro,

So the punishment of taking and knowingly a false oath is expiation (kafara) in 3:89?


God bless all

Salam,

No. In fact, punishment and expiation are two (almost) synonymous words in the context of the some religious beliefs, including that of Qur'an but also Judaism and Christianity.

Expiation (Kafara in Qur'an Arabic, Kipur in Hebrew or Aramaic) views punishment as a path to get redeemed for a sin.

In verse 5:89, expiation can take one of the following forms:
* feeding or clothing of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your own families, or
* freeing of a slave, or
* fast of three days (reserved only for those who cannot opt for the two options above)

Other views of punishment do exist in various communities and societies:
* compensation of a fault
* repair a breach to the social contract (often the view of Western laws)
* revenge (often in the context of tribal societies)


centi50

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Re: False oaths
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2021, 12:51:07 AM »
Salam,

No. In fact, punishment and expiation are two (almost) synonymous words in the context of the some religious beliefs, including that of Qur'an but also Judaism and Christianity.

Expiation (Kafara in Qur'an Arabic, Kipur in Hebrew or Aramaic) views punishment as a path to get redeemed for a sin.

In verse 5:89, expiation can take one of the following forms:
* feeding or clothing of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your own families, or
* freeing of a slave, or
* fast of three days (reserved only for those who cannot opt for the two options above)

Other views of punishment do exist in various communities and societies:
* compensation of a fault
* repair a breach to the social contract (often the view of Western laws)
* revenge (often in the context of tribal societies)

Salam brother,

This means that one can lie by giving false oath and then expiate, with feeding poor people or fasting.

This is a light punishment, considering that you can easily affect/impact cases and thus causing thulm to the other party who you are giving false against

God bless

Anoushirvan

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Re: False oaths
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2021, 02:27:00 AM »
Salam brother,

This means that one can lie by giving false oath and then expiate, with feeding poor people or fasting.

This is a light punishment, considering that you can easily affect/impact cases and thus causing thulm to the other party who you are giving false against

God bless

Salam,

the context in this verse is not making a false testimony in a case (today in our modern world, the only real use of oath together with marriage), but breaking a promise previously made in a pledge or a contract ("bima ʿaqqadttumu al-aymana").

You didn't necessarily intend to lie in the first place when you made a promise that you will not fulfill later.
It happened several times for me, I genuinely made a promise I couldn't fulfill, because it turned out to be too much for me.

Whether the punishment provided in Qur'an is too light or too strong in this context, I don't know. The right balance may be not so easy to set.