Author Topic: Hijab khimar  (Read 1283 times)

centi50

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Hijab khimar
« on: June 15, 2021, 06:24:26 AM »
Salam to all


24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity, and not to display their charms [in public] beyond what may [decently] be apparent thereof;37 hence, let them draw their head-coverings over their bosoms.38 And let them not display [more of] their charms to any but their husbands, or their fathers, or their husbands' fathers, or their sons, or their husbands' Sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or those whom they rightfully possess, or such male attendants as are beyond all sexual desire,39 or children that are as yet unaware of women's nakedness; and let them not swing their legs [in walking] so as to draw attention to their hidden charms40 And [always], O you believers - all of you - turn unto God in repentance, so that you might attain to a happy state!41


Lanes lexicon also say khimar can be a women head cover.
So the translation of Muhammad Asad is right to draw their head covering over their bosom

See the link of a woman covering from covering her head till her chest

So women should wear khimar (head cover all the way to cover their chest like the picture In the link


My question is why cant khimar be head cover

Second question what is this adornment that should not be displayed except what is not apparent





https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7a/49/ba/7a49baf54d47554e713695021e7921f9.jpg

Please someone explain this verse clearly

Because I can see the order is to cover the from head till chest as can be seen in the link given

God bless all

Wakas

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2021, 08:06:24 AM »
You said:
Quote
Lanes lexicon also say khimar can be a women head cover.
So the translation of Muhammad Asad is right to draw their head covering over their bosom

See the link of a woman covering from covering her head till her chest

So women should wear khimar (head cover all the way to cover their chest like the picture In the link

Even if it did mean head-cover here the command is to cover the chest not the head.

See:
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=34
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

jkhan

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2021, 10:47:26 AM »
You said:
Even if it did mean head-cover here the command is to cover the chest not the head.

See:
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=34

Peace brother Waqas...
That's a good article.. I appreciate you did it..

I have read this article long back but when I read today those concerned verses some new questions popped up...

1... What is that beauty that husband and father or sons etc are permitted if seen not issue.. For example for public, suppose what is apparent is like full face with head,  hands up to elbow, legs up to as anckle.. Then what is beyond that fathers sons even strangly husband also in that list.. What can a son see from his mother in general beyond what is normally apparent.. Just for my knowledge and get what your view and even others.. You classified to two type.. How and what actually made you to classify.. Actually it seems good classification... But is it within Quran.. For example classification. Two.. Hip.. In countries where women wear Saree, showing hip or even the tummy is mostly common and is much apparently exposed body part.. And no body cares... BTW it is not even a modern dress... Even upper back lower back.. You have listed what is apparent body parts ..i agree.. But may be you can add hip tummy or upper back.. If seeing hip makes one sexually arousing then seeing a beautiful lips of a woman as well more than that.. Yes.. Lowering gaze always would help.. But can we classify Or are we allowed to classy thus. . I think what is apparent should depend on the dress what each culture is commonly wearing.. As I stated above Saree.. Most of what you classified in group 2 should then jump to group 1 ...

But Quran clearly indicates to cover private parts... What 100% private part fir women.. If women go with tiny short and bra she has covered her private parts.. No one can call she is nude.. Or not covered private parts.. Definitely she has.. Bit such dress doesn't seem encouraged in Quran.. Coz why lower your gaze while you yourself wearing exposing 80% of your body... So Quran clearly indicates to wear modestly.. That's for sure... But I am not honestly sure to classify what is apparent and not.. It depends on culture.. But if culture is nude.. Then clear no according to Quran..

2... Let the Khamar be whatever... Honestly I don't know what cloth that is. . But point to ponder is,  For what purpose women were wearing  those days this piece of cloth and where in the body they were wearing to drag the same piece of cloth to cover the chest as well...drag from up or down of chest.. Were they wearing this khamar for beauty or for climate condition.. Is there any kind of cloth that is worn below the chest which is dragged to the chest to cover it.. Can you just give me one example of any such clothes women wearing yester year or modern days... If not it seems something worn above chest.. Or is this khamar not at all regularly worn piece of cloth, but quickly worn just to show more respect infront of someone...

3... Why wives of Prophet and daughters mentioned and then only wives of believers and NOT mentioned daughters of believers .. Was it only to that particular community and not relevant to entire believers after that..

4...what connection with those passed child bearing and those who not willing to marry... Earlier could most probably old women but not later example...


Btw.... Clearly in these verses three tyoe of clothes mentioned.. One is out garment which completely covers so no one can notice anything in women.. Apart from what is normally apparent in that culture.  ..
Second Normal clothes... Removing it can show what apparently not visible..
Third khamar..

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2021, 11:46:45 AM »
My question is why cant khimar be head cover

peace,

بخمرهن bikhumurihinna/with cover/shroud/cloth/garment/cloak/sheet/veil/shawl/scarf, etc., theirs (f/p)

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/asian-and-african/2016/04/the-british-librarys-oldest-quran-manuscript-now-online.html



3... Why wives of Prophet and daughters mentioned and then only wives of believers and NOT mentioned daughters of believers

4:7 ... وللنسا walilnnisai/and for the womenfolk (i.e. includes all females, wives, daughters, etc.) نصىب share ...

4:11 ىوصىكم instructed you الله the god فى in اولدكم offspring (children) yours للذكر to the male (son) مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن the two (females/daughters) فان so if كن be/are (f/p) نسا nisaan/womenfolk فوق over اثنتىن two (i.e. females/daughters; if 3+) فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left وان and if كانت be she وحده one (female i.e. daughter) فلها so for her النصف the half ...

33:59 ىاىها O you النبى the prophet قل say لازوجك li-azwajika/to spouses your (sing.) وبناتك wabanatika/and daughters your (sing.) ونسا wanisai/and womenfolk (i.e. includes all females, wives, daughters, etc.) المومنىن the believers

centi50

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2021, 04:33:03 PM »
You said:
Even if it did mean head-cover here the command is to cover the chest not the head.

See:
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=34


Salam wakaa,

They are told to draw their headcovers upto there chest and use same clothe they used to cover the head. You can see in my other post the pic link

reel

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2021, 06:46:44 PM »

Salam wakaa,

They are told to draw their headcovers upto there chest and use same clothe they used to cover the head. You can see in my other post the pic link

Reread Wakas' article. As he points out, the command is for specific situation. The covering literally screams, "I'm surrounded by perverts/rapists". Not very diff from the misconception that every muslim is a terrorist.

That lady in the image doesnt accurately depict the verse. She isnt covering her bossoms with the cloth. It is also best to take this into account:

In the year '53 we really wanted to compromise with the Muslim Brotherwood if they were willing to be reasonable. And I met the head of the Muslim Brotherhood and he sat with me and made his resquests. What did he request ? The first thing he asked for was to make wearing a hijab mandatory in Egypt and demand that every woman walking in the street wear a tarha (scarf). [crowd laughing] Every woman walking! [Someone from the crowd shouts ''Let him wear it!'' the crowd applauds and laughs] If I make that a law, they will say that we have returned to the days of Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah who forbade people from walking at day and only allowed walking at night. And my opinion is that every person in his own housedecide sfor himself the rules and he replied ''No, as a leader, you are responsible''. I told him, ''Sir, you have a daughter in the School of Medicine and she's not wearing a tarha''. [crowd laughing] ''Why didn't you make her wear a tarha? [crowd applause] If you are unable to make one girl - who is your daughter - wear the tarha, you want me to put a tarha on 10 million women? Myself? [laughs with crowd]''.

I copied the transcript from this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZIqdrFeFBk
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

centi50

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2021, 06:44:27 AM »
Salam to all

I bumped into this

https://youtu.be/szFUfYHDe34

Saudis are relaxing dress code

Please also take note on how Iranians cover their head. Head not fully covered

God bless all

Amra94

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2021, 03:36:27 PM »
24:31
I'm also still wondering what the adornment is that you can reveal to family, father in law etc. If you're not supposed to fully cover then what do you wear out vs in front of the people mentioned.

jkhan

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2021, 03:59:42 PM »
peace,

بخمرهن bikhumurihinna/with cover/shroud/cloth/garment/cloak/sheet/veil/shawl/scarf, etc., theirs (f/p)

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/asian-and-african/2016/04/the-british-librarys-oldest-quran-manuscript-now-online.html



4:7 ... وللنسا walilnnisai/and for the womenfolk (i.e. includes all females, wives, daughters, etc.) نصىب share ...

4:11 ىوصىكم instructed you الله the god فى in اولدكم offspring (children) yours للذكر to the male (son) مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن the two (females/daughters) فان so if كن be/are (f/p) نسا nisaan/womenfolk فوق over اثنتىن two (i.e. females/daughters; if 3+) فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left وان and if كانت be she وحده one (female i.e. daughter) فلها so for her النصف the half ...

33:59 ىاىها O you النبى the prophet قل say لازوجك li-azwajika/to spouses your (sing.) وبناتك wabanatika/and daughters your (sing.) ونسا wanisai/and womenfolk (i.e. includes all females, wives, daughters, etc.) المومنىن the believers


Peace  NW...
Absolutely you are right.. I used to see Arabic Quran... But this time I only read article of waqas and it is written wife.. So raised the concerned question...  Thank you.. Btw I think better brother waqas if you change women in place of wives... If you think so only.. One question is answered..
God bless you .

reel

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Re: Hijab khimar
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2021, 06:13:40 PM »
24:31
I'm also still wondering what the adornment is that you can reveal to family, father in law etc.

Adornment in Quran typically is called to fashionable wear and sparkling stuffs. See:

7:26 O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best. That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember.

28:79 So he came out before his people in his adornment. Those who desired the worldly life said, "Oh, would that we had like what was given to Qarun. Indeed, he is one of great fortune."

Quote
If you're not supposed to fully cover then what do you wear out vs in front of the people mentioned.

Middle path is the best. The other two extremes contribute to oppression and safety concern.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj