Author Topic: Lost  (Read 1192 times)

dustandashes

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Lost
« on: June 10, 2021, 09:03:36 AM »
How do I start? How do I convince myself to keep my faith alive? How do I stop myself from destroying the little faith I have left? In all my life, I never imagined I would end up in this position. A year ago,  I was a happy muslim. I had no problem with wearing hijab, had no problem with being seen as an inferior gender, had no problem with the amount of restrictions that were being imposed by salafist. I dedicated myself to worshipping Allah swt and loving Prophet Mohammad. Then one cursed day I came across a Quranist. He was arguing with traditional muslims, I argued with him, he came up with points that I wasn't able to refute. For weeks I was plagued by his arguments and then I came across this forum. Lurked here for a long period then decided I am going to become Quran centric. I loved the posts here. I loved how people seemed so rational. I loved how they encouraged questioning. They told me questioning is a part of faith. That God wants us to question it. What a fool I was, I trusted them. I listened to them. I started questioning. First it started with hadiths. Then it was Quran. And now it's God. This reasoning and questioning destroyed me. It destroyed my faith. Now I am not the part of Islam anymore. A book that is supposed to be the divinely inspired words of Gods shouldn't have so many scientific inaccuracies. This bothered me so I became a muatazila. To ease my mind I tried to convince myself that Quran has not been preserved. That's why there are so many inaccuracies. Then came the fact that Quran is filled with so much hatred. But this time I couldn't come up with any excuse. Why does God had disbelievers so much ? Why why why? How is it logical that no one has seen God, no one has talked to God except the alleged prophets, no one has heard him yet God wants to put all of these people in permanent hell for not worshipping him. Why is he so hateful. Every religious person claims God is merciful and loving, yet he is so biased and arrogant that he will only admit those people in paradise who worshipped him. On top of that, he lets people suffer. He is the provider yet people are dying of hunger. He is the protector yet so many people are being oppressed and no one is able to help them. How does one reconcile with this. I dont know what to do with my life. My whole life changed in year. I went from happy woman to a depressed one. My life is completely shattered. I feel so numb. So empty. I am trying to desperately cling to my faith. I am trying so hard. Please someone help me. I dont know what to do. I am on the verge of becoming a deist+nihilist . I believe there's God. I believe there's a creator. But now  I also believe that this world is meaningless. That we will cease to exist when we die. This has made me so depressed. I have been crying myself to sleep. When I worshipped God, I believed in hereafter. death didn't scare me. I was going to be united with my rab and Prophet Mohammad. I was going to be united with my family. It was going to be eterenal. I was happy. Satisfied. Now I have become suicidal. The fact that this life is meaningless and we would be lost forever once we die has made me so empty. I dont want to die. The idea fills me with so much dread. It's the only thing I think about 24/7. When I am happy the sudden realisation hits me that this is temporary and I then I am again filled with so much sadness. I dont want to die but this void inside me, this feeling of emptiness is intolerable. Death is better than feeling like this. I dont know why am I here. Maybe this is my last ditch effort to save my faith. Please help me. I dont know what's wrong with me. Everyday I wake and try to feel the presence of God, I dont feel anything. Please please please help me. I dont want to lose my faith. I try to listen to Quran in arabic but I feel nothing. I cannot read Qur'an's translation because it would take me more away from my faith because it's filled so much hate. Help me please. At this point i am rambling. But please anything. Any spiritual book. Any writer. Anything. I cannot live like this. This life depresses me. Pray for me. Please pray for me.

good logic

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Re: Lost
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2021, 10:21:36 AM »
Peace  dustandashes

Hello sister. Welcome.
Search within.

https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=203

My problem with Qoran:
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=206

Just relax and take your time to decide.
Take care.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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spodacus

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Re: Lost
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2021, 05:52:40 PM »
Salam, I read your post and felt in my heart a pang of pain for your struggle so I am replying. Perhaps it is time to take a break from the text and just relax and ponder for a bit? You said you still believe in Allah and feel in your heart He should have the good qualities like Merciful, Kind, Protector for innocent people. This is a good sign that your inner soul recognizes the qualities of God naturally without being taught. You just having trouble balancing those feelings with the text and also with the hirrible events  happening in the world and horrible people. I could make the statement that you should use your inner natural gut instincts about Allah as a way for you to identify correct understanding of the text. For example any understanding that appears hateful probably is incorrect as it doesn't jive with your understanding of the qualities of Allah. That is why I don't agree that there are hateful discussion in Quran, I seek out the best interpretation using both logic and reasoning but also rely on my gut feeling to validate the understanding. Also to develop your Iman better, it doesn't mean just read the text but also implement a healthy lifestyle with focus on Allah. For example do more charity work, take care of family, cook, play with kids, have nice conversation with strangers but do it with the specific thought, "I am doing this to come closer to my Lord." This build Iman in you, give you sabr, and make you a healthy happy person. Then when you read the text you are in positive mind frame and the understanding comes to you.

Also majority of media, news, entertainment is design in devilish way to keep you depressed so it is difficult to come towards Allah when you are always depressed. Stay away from media a little bit, that is why you think so much bad is happening in the world. Yes bad things are happening but in reality many more fold good things are happening too which shaitan doesn't want you to see. To keep you depressed and negative mood. So recognize what depresses you externally and remove it to regain some positivity in your life.

Perhaps this inner termoil is sign from Allah that you need a reset, it is a good thing. Reset will put you on the right path. Focus on tangible positive things to do and do it for sake of getting closer to Allah. And watch out for signs in your life. You know there are 7 billion people on this world and odds of me speaking to you as a stranger is 1 in 7 billion. You can win lottery 1 in 300 million. So getting positive advise from stranger is like winning lottery 20x in a row? So is that a sign from Allah, my message? The math is incorrect but you get the point. See everything around you as a sign.

Take care!

jkhan

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Re: Lost
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2021, 06:34:48 PM »
How do I start? How do I convince myself to keep my faith alive? How do I stop myself from destroying the little faith I have left? In all my life, I never imagined I would end up in this position. A year ago,  I was a happy muslim. I had no problem with wearing hijab, had no problem with being seen as an inferior gender, had no problem with the amount of restrictions that were being imposed by salafist. I dedicated myself to worshipping Allah swt and loving Prophet Mohammad. Then one cursed day I came across a Quranist. He was arguing with traditional muslims, I argued with him, he came up with points that I wasn't able to refute. For weeks I was plagued by his arguments and then I came across this forum. Lurked here for a long period then decided I am going to become Quran centric. I loved the posts here. I loved how people seemed so rational. I loved how they encouraged questioning. They told me questioning is a part of faith. That God wants us to question it. What a fool I was, I trusted them. I listened to them. I started questioning. First it started with hadiths. Then it was Quran. And now it's God. This reasoning and questioning destroyed me. It destroyed my faith. Now I am not the part of Islam anymore. A book that is supposed to be the divinely inspired words of Gods shouldn't have so many scientific inaccuracies. This bothered me so I became a muatazila. To ease my mind I tried to convince myself that Quran has not been preserved. That's why there are so many inaccuracies. Then came the fact that Quran is filled with so much hatred. But this time I couldn't come up with any excuse. Why does God had disbelievers so much ? Why why why? How is it logical that no one has seen God, no one has talked to God except the alleged prophets, no one has heard him yet God wants to put all of these people in permanent hell for not worshipping him. Why is he so hateful. Every religious person claims God is merciful and loving, yet he is so biased and arrogant that he will only admit those people in paradise who worshipped him. On top of that, he lets people suffer. He is the provider yet people are dying of hunger. He is the protector yet so many people are being oppressed and no one is able to help them. How does one reconcile with this. I dont know what to do with my life. My whole life changed in year. I went from happy woman to a depressed one. My life is completely shattered. I feel so numb. So empty. I am trying to desperately cling to my faith. I am trying so hard. Please someone help me. I dont know what to do. I am on the verge of becoming a deist+nihilist . I believe there's God. I believe there's a creator. But now  I also believe that this world is meaningless. That we will cease to exist when we die. This has made me so depressed. I have been crying myself to sleep. When I worshipped God, I believed in hereafter. death didn't scare me. I was going to be united with my rab and Prophet Mohammad. I was going to be united with my family. It was going to be eterenal. I was happy. Satisfied. Now I have become suicidal. The fact that this life is meaningless and we would be lost forever once we die has made me so empty. I dont want to die. The idea fills me with so much dread. It's the only thing I think about 24/7. When I am happy the sudden realisation hits me that this is temporary and I then I am again filled with so much sadness. I dont want to die but this void inside me, this feeling of emptiness is intolerable. Death is better than feeling like this. I dont know why am I here. Maybe this is my last ditch effort to save my faith. Please help me. I dont know what's wrong with me. Everyday I wake and try to feel the presence of God, I dont feel anything. Please please please help me. I dont want to lose my faith. I try to listen to Quran in arabic but I feel nothing. I cannot read Qur'an's translation because it would take me more away from my faith because it's filled so much hate. Help me please. At this point i am rambling. But please anything. Any spiritual book. Any writer. Anything. I cannot live like this. This life depresses me. Pray for me. Please pray for me.
Peace Sister...

I am happy I am addressing you..
You said you were happy a year back... Go back to it... Go back to what you were doing a year back.. And get back to normal... I am not kidding.. First be who you are.. Then you can find truth... First come back to normal by fighting within yourself...

Dear don't think too much at a time while you don't have answer to your single question... Why stress... Take one by one...

Look sister... Even you believe in God or not... Whatever happens happen... It is same even one accept there is No God or God exists.. What is happening in this world do happen... So the one who believes in God may blame God and one who doesn't believe  in God has no one to blame....
So just relax.. Go back to your old lifestyle.... Just do then simple things... approach those who really need help basically for food and cloths.. Just do yourself in person . Feed them and look at their happiness in the faces... It will change your current situation... Keep doing and be occupied practically... Just get out of this shackle by approaching such people.. Then you will find you are blessed than them.  Go to seriously sick people who need help. Then you will find you are perfect... Take little steps in life.... Don't think of what to follow and which religion right... Just practice charity with intent to see happiness in others faces and when you see you will be happy.. When you are happy slowly understand the reality.   God will He will guide you..

Don't burden your head with questions which you can't answer and the answers you get from others would never satisfy at this point for you... All will taste bitter...

So approach to see happiness in others eyes who are weeping in hunger.. approach to those when you give a bag of food quickly take and express full of happiness... Doesn't that make you happy... Of course it will. .
First fight within yourself to overcome what you go through... Then as confident person approach this site..  In sha Allah you will find answers....

Note...  Life is hard.. Not only for you... For example.. My mother paralyzed... You won't believe..my sisters feed her just one meal for instance breakfast for two hours.. I keep watching.. Looking at it I am getting tired and how hard it could be for my sisters.. Imagine sitting three times a day for six hours to feed a bedridden person...what about her routine.. My mother never let is sleep at night.. Coz she makes sound .. Is your life more easier than that my dear.. If so then be thankful and relax.. Come to light..

Take my advice and others here... Don't do anything  silly... Being insane is not answers to problems or concern.. ...fight with it..

So dear sister you are not lost... Live with hope...

good logic

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Re: Lost
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2021, 02:10:20 AM »
We burden our heart with a heavy load of human desires ,sorrows and fear.

The heart can be cleansed only by love. The more love we give and share ,the more it unloads the heart.

Religion,truth,way of life add more load to the heart,it can bury love deep within it. Happiness will only come back if the heart is smiling.

So what good is it for finding anything with a heavy heart?

The religion of GOD is a pure heart.
Working on our heart starts the process of walking on the straight path
.Love of GOD and all His creations is at he heart of this process.
 
However, it is hard not to blame,not to get frustrated,not to get angry ,not to....Inna Maa Al Usri Ysra...With hardship and sorrow many have found a way to love and submission. The only true religion of GOD.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
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Wakas

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Re: Lost
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2021, 02:46:39 AM »
peace,
Welcome to the forum.

Your experience has some similarities to some others here. Quote from my own story: http://www.quran434.com/about-the-author.html

Even though I had effectively accepted The Quran as the only source for Islam, I hadn't realised to what extent tradition/culture had been incorporated into everyday practice/beliefs. This point in the journey is not for the faint-hearted! Many Traditional Muslims will accept that not all Traditional Ahadith can be trusted (hence weak/strong classification etc) and most will state The Quran is the primary source but like many I had no idea that the Islam taught by The Quran was almost unrecogniseable to the Islam practiced today.
This is where many end the journey. This part requires someone to actively study/seek/research/question their own beliefs as well as their family/friends etc. It requires the breaking down of myths, embracing uncertainty, periods of confusion mixed with joy and clarity, rebuilding of ideas... who would want to put themselves through that? Not many. The more I researched, the more dissilusioned, confused, lost I became. It is important to point out it was not because it didn't make sense, it was because it was shaking my beliefs down to the ground. It was just so different and unexpected to what I had been taught. Slowly but surely I began to connect the dots and see the big picture. I now realise it was necessary to break down my beliefs and rebuild on a solid foundation [9:109]. Like most I started with a core starting point (belief in God) but had built upon it a mixture of Islam+tradition+culture+myths+hearsay+bias. This was not a solid strucutre, so I began to dismantle it using the ultimate falsehood smasher: The Quran. Akin to how a sculptor does not keep adding clay to his subject, actually, he strips away the inessentials until its true form is revealed, and the truth is beautiful.


Your story reminded me of this article, which discusses a simple yet important concept:
https://www.free-minds.org/mumins


If you wish we can go through the various issues you have with God/Quran etc (I think all of them have been discussed on the forum in the past).


The perfect way is only difficult for those who pick and choose. Do not like, do not dislike; all will then be clear. Make a hairbreadth difference and heaven and earth are set apart; if you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against. The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease.
~ Zen commonly attributed to Bruce Lee
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Anoushirvan

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Re: Lost
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2021, 04:24:50 AM »
Salam,

How do I start? How do I convince myself to keep my faith alive? How do I stop myself from destroying the little faith I have left? In all my life, I never imagined I would end up in this position. A year ago,  I was a happy muslim.

Same as a lot of people starting to doubt, including me.

This reasoning and questioning destroyed me. It destroyed my faith.

Same for me.

Now I am not the part of Islam anymore. A book that is supposed to be the divinely inspired words of Gods shouldn't have so many scientific inaccuracies. This bothered me so I became a muatazila. To ease my mind I tried to convince myself that Quran has not been preserved. That's why there are so many inaccuracies.

The simple fact is that Qur'an has not been written by a god, but by a man, or maybe several men (women, I'm not sure) at various degrees, with a leading one.

Then came the fact that Quran is filled with so much hatred. But this time I couldn't come up with any excuse.

Well, for this part, I could find excuses to Qur'an, and Qur'an remains an interesting text, although its prescriptive verses are completely outdated now.

But it is needed to realize that Islam did not emerge the traditional Islamic narrative tells us.
That is not that the traditional Islamic narrative is entirely untrue, it contains bit of truth that could be used in some cases, but its whole structure was invented.

Qur'an was not the founding text in the first half of the 7th CE of an hypothetical new religion called Islam, let alone the last text of series of books continuing the religion of Adam or Abraham.
In addition, Qur'an did not emerge from a pagan milieu.
Qur'an was not "revealed" to advocate belief in God alone nor in God only and Muhammad as Messenger of God.
This traditional Islamic narrative was constructed from the end of the 7th CE.

Instead, various historical indications crossed with indications given by Qur'an itself give a very different picture of the origins of Qur'an and Islam by the same occasion.

For example, Gerald Hawting in The Idea of Idolatry (https://www.almuslih.org/Library/Hawting,%20G%20-%20The%20Idea%20of%20Idolatry.pdf) has shown that if we didn't had hadiths and sira of the Prophet, we would surely understand from Qur'an that the "disbelievers" were actually monotheists like the Qur'an preacher, with a kind of belief in the power of angels.

Likewise, Joseph Schacht in The Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence (https://ia601902.us.archive.org/0/items/schacht-joseph-the-origins-of-muhamaddan-jurisprudence/Schacht%2C%20Joseph%20-%20The%20Origins%20of%20Muhammadan%20Jurisprudence_text.pdf) has shown that Islamic jurisprudence gradually emerged across centuries by merging various "sunnahs" until one common concept of the Sunnah of the Prophet finally emerged and prevailed.

It also appears from the work of J. Schacht that Qur'an could be considered as one of those "traditions" / sunnahs, and one of the most difficult to merge with the others by the ancient scholars, because it contradicted a lot of other sunnahs, even when they were traced back to the Prophet.
The "solution" found by Shafi was that whenever a tradition traced back to the Prophet contradicted Qur'an contradicted Qur'an, then then the tradition should prevail over Qur'an since the Prophet would have been the best placed to know how to interpret and put Qur'an into practice.


During the 7th CE, one finds no historical Arabic artifact of the so-called "hijri" calendar. Instead, one finds artifacts (papyri, coins, etc.) with the mention of the "Era of the Arabs". The "Hijra" is never mentioned.
Various chronicles tell a very different story of the emergence of Islam than the traditional Islamic narrative, see Robert Hoyland, Seeing Islam as Others Saw It https://archive.org/details/SeeingIslamAsOthersSawItASurveyAndEvaluationOfChristianJewishAndZoroastrianWritingsOnEarlyIslam

Only at the end of the 7th CE, we start to see artifacts mentioning excerpts of Qur'an (e.g. Dome of the Rock).

The end of the 7th CE in Middle East was partly under the rule of Caliph Abd al-Malik who built the Dome of the Rock. Yet, I don't think that Caliph Abd al-Malik ordered the writing of Qur'an. Qur'an is clearly a text of opponents, and it would have been very dangerous for a ruling power to commit to this kind of book as it could very well be turned against it, and in fact, it has.
Instead a ruling power would be committed in an apologetic book, which Qur'an is not.

For example, the sira is an apologetic story. It is not a coincidence that one of the first known siras (the Expeditions, by Ma'amar ibn Rashid) is believed to rely on a previous work dated back of the end of the 7th CE (Gauthier Juynboll, Muslim Traditions, https://www.almuslih.org/Library/Juynboll,%20G%20-%20Muslim%20Tradition.PDF)


So, if Qur'an emerged from an already monotheist milieu and in reaction against it, then the correct key of its interpretation is not through hadiths, nor through Qur'an by Qur'an.
That is, neither hadiths and sira (in traditional Islam), nor Qur'an itself (as done by Qur'an alone movements) are the right keys to understand Qur'an.

In fact, it appears that the correct way to understand Qur'an is through the ancient Jewish tradition, and especially the Midrash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash)
Through the ancient Jewish tradition, the true meaning of Qur'an emerges and tells a very different story.

Here it is: around 620 or 621 J.C. (so not so far away from 622 the year attributed to "Hijra" in the sira), an Arabic Judeo-gnostic sect found that time, where war was raging between the Byzantine empire and the Persian empire, was appropriate to qualify as announcing the second coming of Christ, the Messiah, and they decided to found a new kingdom to welcome him.

That sect founded it by waging war in a similar way as do djihadis and Isis today: by spreading chaos on Earth ("fassada" in Arabic), because ancient prophesies in the Bible, in extra-Bible books, in the ancient Jewish tradition in general, predicted the Messiah could only come at the height of the trial ("fitna" in Arabic).
Islamic terrorist movements do the same today, but they rely on hadiths instead of some narratives that can be found in the ancient Jewish thought. But those hadiths they rely on actually come from some some narratives that can be found in the ancient Jewish thought.

In the foundation of this new kingdom, a jurisprudence had also to be setup, but Gnostics despised the Law as an instrument of devil to enslave mankind, so this sect likely never took the jurisprudence seriously and delegated it to private jugdes and legals.
It has still been like that in Islam until the 20th CE and the emergence of modern Islamic nations.


But one guy at that time stood against this way of doing, denounced spreading chaos on Earth / fassada to hasten the end of times, the lack of ethics when elaborating the jurisprudence / the deen, and the reliance on magic for decisions ("Taghout" and "gibt", coming from Thot and Egypt which was expert in sorcery) that should instead fall under an ethical Law.

He wrote, maybe with the help of some disciples, a series of vehement preachings to denounce that way of doing of his contemporaries.
Those preachings have later been collected in a single book, called "Qur'an".

The Qur'anic preaching quickly spread across the Arab kingdom throughout the 7th CE, and certainly fueled some revolts, especially the Second Fitna during the reign of Abd al-Malik.

In order to neutralize the contentious nature of Qur'an, Caliph Abd al-Malik took hold of it and made Qur'an the official doctrine of the Arab kingdom. I built this idea based on a paper from historian Fred Donner Qur’ânicization of Religio-Political Discourse in the Umayyad Period: https://journals.openedition.org/remmm/7085, though the thesis of Fred Donner is different.

In its strict sense, Qur'an is completely outdated in this day and age, but as a quest for an ethical Law in its historical context, it is a very interesting text and very insightful.
By correctly understanding Qur'an we can also realize how building a correct and ethical system of laws is incredibly difficult.
This is why I find excuses to its vehement speech.
 

But now  I also believe that this world is meaningless.

Yes, the world has no intrinsic meaning, only our mind gives it a meaning.


That we will cease to exist when we die.

Yes.
And nobody wants to die. That's the truth.


This has made me so depressed.

Me also for a time. But it's over now, once one accepts it.

When I worshipped God, I believed in hereafter. death didn't scare me. I was going to be united with my rab and Prophet Mohammad. I was going to be united with my family. It was going to be eterenal. I was happy. Satisfied. Now I have become suicidal. The fact that this life is meaningless and we would be lost forever once we die has made me so empty.

Belief in Hereafter, Hell and Paradise is fairly recent in the history of mankind.
For example, ancient Jews at the time the Torah was written did not believe in Hell nor Paradise.
They believed that the soul (nephesh in Hebrew, nafs in Arabic) resided in blood, and that after death, the soul would go to the Underworld forever, the Sheol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol).
Idea of resurrection did not exist, until a prophet (Ezekiel) elaborated a metaphor of Israel awakening from the dead that was misunderstood.
 
What mattered for the ancient Jews at the time Torah was written was to hold a good life with an ethical Law.
In fact they believed that one survives to death through one's descendance and following an ethical way of life taught to one's descendance.

And I believe this is the correct message, though it has to be actuated in our day and age.

It is also in line with our biologic nature, where we not only transmit our genes to our descendants but also our culture.
Transmitting an ethically wrong culture is what I would call symbolically living in Hell forever without hope to go out of it.
 

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Lost
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2021, 10:59:26 AM »
How do I start? How do I convince myself to keep my faith alive? How do I stop myself from destroying the little faith I have left?

peace, we are all tested and given a sign; ask and serenity will be granted you.
for me at my worst it was the extra "meem" in verse 4:12 مما mimma/from what.

4:12 ولكم and for you (pl.) نصف half ما ma/what ترك left ازوجكم spouses yours (pl.)
... ولهن and for them (pl.) الربع the fourth مما mimma/from what تركتم left you (pl.)

103:1 والعصر and (by) the epoch
103:2 ان indeed الانسن the humankind لفى surely in خسر loss
103:3 الا except الذىن the ones امنوا believes they of وعملوا and work they of الصلحت the righteous وتوصوا and exhort they of بالحق in the truth وتوصوا and exhort they of بالصبر in the patience


During the 7th CE, one finds no historical Arabic artifact of the so-called "hijri" calendar. Instead, one finds artifacts (papyri, coins, etc.) with the mention of the "Era of the Arabs". The "Hijra" is never mentioned....

Only at the end of the 7th CE, we start to see artifacts mentioning excerpts of Qur'an (e.g. Dome of the Rock).

peace, do calculations using moon phase data or calendar converter and research oldest manuscripts.

"30 pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" 25 april year 643 shahru jumada the first (30) or last day of month.
http://astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases0601.html

2:185 شهر shahru رمضان ramadan (heat cycle) الذى the one انزل descends فىه in it القران the Qur'an
Pf558 شهر shahru جمدى jumada (dried cycle) الاولى the first من from سنه year اثنىن twosome وعشرىن and twenty (22)

yr new-moon (crescent visible 2 days later)
643 Apr 24 jumada al-awwal 30, 22 AH / April 25, 643 CE
Pharmouthi 30, the 1st indiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PERF_558
643 May 23 (11) Jun 7 full moon
643 Jun 21 (12) Jul 7 full moon (after summer solstice)
643 Jul 21 (01) ramadan Aug 5 full moon

Cairo, National Library: qaf 47
One of the oldest manuscripts dated 606-652 CE (95.4% probability)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/12/handschrift/73



Tübingen, University Library: Ma VI 165 dated 649-675 CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/36?handschrift=107




inbuilt faith

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Re: Lost
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2021, 06:51:19 PM »
Respected Sister,
 
Allow me to share my humble 2 cents experience of living 25 years of practicing religious life, out of which an entire span of 5 years in-between went in me being an absolute atheist.
Like how bears go into hibernation mode, I too unintentionally went into atheism phase from 2010 to 2015. Till then I used to think that all those Youtube videos showing Muslims converted to Christianity or Muslims converted to Atheism are fake.

I used to think that those testifying Ex-Muslims were scripted and staged by the people having agenda and vested interest in them. I just couldn't grasp as to how come these individuals were converting after possessing so much Islamic knowledge, along with having spent large portion of their lives deeply rooted in Islam. But when I too found myself engulfed and enveloped in the atheism phase, all of my friends and relatives were confused and baffled with astonishment and shock. The reason for their reaction was that I was not just another name-sake Muslim guy. By that time, I had converted 12 friends into Islam, and was giving open Islamic lectures to friends, relatives at home and in local mosques, on regular basis, especially in the Ramzan month. 

I used to lead friends and relatives in salat at home and also in local mosques. I was an active debater in chat rooms and would often have full-fledged arguments with many self-righteous and misinforming  Maulanas, Imams and relatives. Therefore, it was obviously expected that my friends and relatives would baffle and choke by my decision of leaving Islam and God.

Right now, I am not revealing in detail how come I left and entered back to Islam. I only briefly shared my dark time so that you might find some relevance in my then faithless and godless phase of life.
 
Please do listen to the song "Beautiful Times" with lyrics, at least once. It is sung by Adam Young a.k.a Owl city. 
Below is a small text portion of that song.
 
"When did the sky turn black?
And when will the light come back?
 
We all suffer, but we recover
Just to discover life, where we all are.
 
I fought all through the night,
Oh, oh, but I made it alive.
The sun's starting to rise,
Oh, oh, these are beautiful times.
This fight of my life is so hard, so hard, so hard
But I'm gonna survive,
Oh, oh, these are beautiful times.”
 
And now, to address your on-going plight, I have this to say.

Living a faith-based life is a journey, whereas most of us are too much focused on obtaining the confirmation certificate regarding the destination. And by destination, I mean, our preoccupation with the self-assuredness of being on the rightly guided, correct path. That very path which is approved and dictated for us by the Almighty Creator Lord.

You see, destination, i.e, confirmedly knowing whether we are on the rightly guided, correct path is not to be ever found or realized while living our earthly life.
It is going to be cleared and known only on the Day of Judgment. There is simply no way of knowing with absolute certainty, whether we are on the rightly guided, correct path, let alone the matter of knowing if we are even going to enter heaven at all.

The Prophets and the Messengers knew for sure about them being on the rightly guided, correct path, and they too are going to remain in Awe on the Judgement Day.
We are wrongly running after the mirage in the desert, whereas our intention, focus and energy should be expending only on crossing the desert area. Only after coming out of it, we will get to learn whether we have reached the city side or the wasteland side of the desert. My humble request and advice to you is to leave aside the occurrence of the mirage. It will falsely self-satisfy / complacent you, and thus won't let you to keep on reflecting, introspecting, questioning and learning about your faith throughout your lifetime. 

In the same way, to remain in an undoubtable and unquestionable state, regarding our belief and its thorough understanding, is also like a desert mirage. Please don’t fall for it. Best is to become like an exploring passenger searching for the right train, instead of remaining as a static passenger who has been fixedly seated in a wrong train through his family, relatives, friends and the society.
It is indeed such a strange phenomenon, where we have this obsessive compulsion urge of anyhow wanting to know - feel and be ascertain that we are on the rightly guided, correct path. Most of us are busily fixated in self-attesting the authenticity of our belief system.

Of course, I understand that our eternity depends upon being on the rightly guided, correct path. But somehow, its ascertainability while on earth is kept elusive by the Almighty Creator Hisself, until the day of Judgement. At the time of receiving our deeds book, at our front or in right / left hand, it will be made fully known to us what is our exact state in matter of guidance and deeds performance. Only and only on the Day of Judgment we will be entirely made to know with absolute certainty whether we were rightly guided or not.
 
"...To Allah is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ." Quran ~ 5:48.
   
Living a faith-based life itself is meant to be a journeying process in stages and sequences, rather than it being a definite destination with assured on-spot confirmation certificate on earth. I mean, how can we be ever so sure-footed about the truthfulness of our creed version unless it is directly testified and certified from God or His Angel or His Prophet / Messenger, in a face-to-face manner. Unfortunately, for lost and confused, yet passionate devotees like us, Allah has not kept this validation system in our earthly life. So, in meantime, I just concern myself with focusing on the Existence of a Creator who is all-aware, all-knowing, all-wise, ever-present. I concern myself with doing good deeds, and remaining in utmost Awe regarding the day of Judgement. My faith-based journey mostly, mainly and majorly consists of understanding Quran through continuous refinement and constant filterization by reading sense-making and watching reason-appealing articles/ books / vlogs, which explains Quran in alignment with the Tawheed - Taqwa – Tawakkul aspect.
 
Keep a goal, purpose and intention of meeting your Creator with quenched emotions and satiated reasonings on the Judgment Day, after spending a lifetime of exhaustive seeking and unending beseeching for His guidance, mercy and forgiveness.
 
There are numerous forums and vloggers on the internet which have Quran alone / Quran centered contents. Though most of them are humble, sincere and firm in their commitment to the Quranic studies and research, but yet, they too astonishingly differ vastly and dramatically from each other. Differing in matters of Times of Salat to even the definition of Salat. Some have contrast viewpoint on Hajj, whereas some are passionately possessive about code19. Some are still not able to leave their traditional and cultural cocoon behind, and some have altogether given an outlandish approach to the concept of Judgement Day and Heaven / Hell.
 
What I have observed, recognized and realized that, to know the exact, real and actual truth for living our earthly life is just like the analogy of 12 blindmen and the Elephant. You can replace the Elephant with Islam or Quran or even with our Worldly life purpose.

It is a story of a group of blind men who have never come across an elephant before and who learn and conceptualize what the elephant is like by touching it. Each blind man feels a different part of the elephant's body, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then describe the elephant based on their limited experience and their descriptions of the elephant are different from each other. In some versions, they come to suspect that the other person is dishonest and they come to blows. The moral of the parable is that humans have a tendency to claim absolute truth based on their limited, subjective experience as they ignore other people's limited, subjective experiences which may be equally true.

I am definitely not saying that all religions are true and all paths lead to One God and Heaven. What I mean by each blindman being true is in the sense that they have been either misled or guided as was destined for them, and so each one is right in his own Point-of-View in assuming that his position and claim to be totally correct. We all too are like those blindmen.  We too are probing, discovering and declaring an unofficially established claim without even a pinch of doubt regarding our findings and on the uncertified certainty of its being truthful.
 
And finally, I would suggest you to begin your faith-based journey by first knowing the Creator of the entire Existence. Just know Him first by knowing his Majestic, Supreme, Awe-filling and Compelling Attributes. Attributes which are mentioned throughout the Quran, not 99 but in thousands. Although, you can also deduce these Attributes by looking all around you. In the way everything exists, lives, survives, occurs, functions, operates, works and then finally declines, disintegrates, decays and extinguishes.   

So, do realise, recognise, admit, acknowledge, surrender and submit to His Attributes. Comprehending His Attributes will lead you to the path of Tawheed, Taqwa and Tawakkul. InshaAllah.
Without first clearing and adapting the Tawheed, Taqwa and Tawakkul notion, all the remaining Quranic Injunctions Commandments, bylaws rituals & rites matters zero. They all are next to nothing, if the foremostly important and exceedingly crucial aspect of the Almighty Creator is not clarified, understood and adapted in living our life.
 
We would futilely and vainly keep mistranslating and misinterpreting the verses of Quran, if we do not scan it under the vision of Tawheed, Taqwa and Tawakkul. All the other matters are like merely running after weightless shadow, without any weighty body supporting the shadow frame. So, first comprehend the Attributes / Essence of the Creator via the concept of Tawheed, Taqwa, Tawakkul, and only then later probe further in the matters of Quranic stories, commands, norms, rites and ritualistic practices.

I will be most earnest to reply to any further queries by you. Keep the Faith.
 
And Only Allah knows best about the entire Actuality. I have just shared the point-of-view to the best of my sincere and humble understanding, at this point of my life. May Almighty Allah bless, guide, forgive and pour unending mercy upon us, on earth as well on the Judgment Day. InshaAllah.
 
 
 

Anoushirvan

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Re: Lost
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2021, 10:56:25 PM »
peace, do calculations using moon phase data or calendar converter and research oldest manuscripts.

"30 pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" 25 april year 643 shahru jumada the first (30) or last day of month.
http://astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases0601.html

2:185 شهر shahru رمضان ramadan (heat cycle) الذى the one انزل descends فىه in it القران the Qur'an
Pf558 شهر shahru جمدى jumada (dried cycle) الاولى the first من from سنه year اثنىن twosome وعشرىن and twenty (22)

yr new-moon (crescent visible 2 days later)
643 Apr 24 jumada al-awwal 30, 22 AH / April 25, 643 CE
Pharmouthi 30, the 1st indiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PERF_558
643 May 23 (11) Jun 7 full moon
643 Jun 21 (12) Jul 7 full moon (after summer solstice)
643 Jul 21 (01) ramadan Aug 5 full moon

Peace,

PERF558 is only a coincidence, it doesn't work with other papyrii of the 7th CE.

For example:
P. Ness 62
http://www.apd.gwi.uni-muenchen.de:8080/apd/show2.jsp?papname=Kraemer_Nessana_62&line=1
https://www.trismegistos.org/text/21492

P.Ness. 63
http://www.apd.gwi.uni-muenchen.de:8080/apd/show2.jsp?papname=Kraemer_Nessana_63&line=1
https://www.trismegistos.org/text/21493

In P.Ness.62, asks for the « rizq » of Shawwal and Dhu al-Qa’dah.
In P.Ness. 63, only in the Greek version, asks for the fruits of al-Muharram and Safar (the latter being not readable but reconstructed).

Both P.Ness. 62 and P.Ness.63 establish a correspondence between Shawwal 55 and October 4th indiction (October 675 J.C.). But according to Hijri calendar, October 675 should fall on Dhu al-Qa'dah 55 (which started around 27th Sept. 675, the new moon).


This papyrus:
P. Colt. No. 60
https://www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/papyri/jerus

establishes a correspondence between Dhu al-Qa’dah 54 and November 3rd indiction (i.e. November 674 J.C.)
Asks to pay 70 measures of wheat for Muharram, Safar, Rabi I and Rabi II and suggests that these months were consecutive (with possible omission of Dhu al-Hijja ?).

Dhu al-Qa'dah 54 around November 674 is indeed  in line with Hijri calendar.

But once we assume this, we have this papyrus:

P.Ness. 61
http://www.apd.gwi.uni-muenchen.de:8080/apd/show2.jsp?papname=Kraemer_Nessana_61&line=1
https://www.trismegistos.org/text/21491

It establishes a correspondence between Rajab 55 and August 3rd indiction (i.e. August 675 J.C.)
It asks for the « rizq » of Rajab and Sha’aban, suggesting that Sha’aban comes immediately after this month of Rajab.

But, according to Hijri calendar, Rajab 55 should start on 2nd June 675, and August 675 should correspond to Ramadan 55.


We also notice that the order of the months in the Arabic year was not exactly the same as in the Hijri calendar, and was also likely not the same every year.
This sheds a very different light on those Qur'anic verses:

9:36    The count of the months with God is twelve months in the book of God the day He created the heavens and the earth; four of them are sacred. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight the polytheists collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.
9:37    In the use of the intercalary exists an increase in rejection; that those who have rejected may misguide with it. They make it permissible one calendar year, and forbid it one calendar year, so as to circumvent the count of what God has made forbidden; thus they make permissible what God has made forbidden. Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people.



As the papyrii mentioned above suggest, the ruling power had the "habit" to manipulate the calendar, and Qur'an opposes to such manipulations.
This corroborates my thesis above that Qur'an was originally a text of opponents to the ruling power during the 7th CE.
Qur'an was not the book of doctrine of this ruling power during the 7th CE.