Author Topic: Companion of the elephant  (Read 1249 times)

Iyyaka

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2021, 04:24:14 AM »
Who is better to describe history in truth than God?
Peace.
God does not speak to babies who know nothing.
He is speaking to responsible people with an history and an anthropological context. And when he takes up the striking and decisive episode of the attack of Abraha in Sura 105 (with its very graphic side to mark the spirits of the notables of the Quraich), the men of that time understood very well what it was about.
It is up to us, 14 centuries later, to make the effort to understand this and to draw lessons from it that will enable us to act better today.
God bless you.

jkhan

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2021, 05:34:41 AM »
Peace.
God does not speak to babies who know nothing.
He is speaking to responsible people with an history and an anthropological context. And when he takes up the striking and decisive episode of the attack of Abraha in Sura 105 (with its very graphic side to mark the spirits of the notables of the Quraich), the men of that time understood very well what it was about.
It is up to us, 14 centuries later, to make the effort to understand this and to draw lessons from it that will enable us to act better today.
God bless you.

12:111 "In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is not invented story (Hadith) ...... ...."
I don't like invented stories..

For me to understand Quran, the same book is enough and rest with reasoning of reality... Why to believe historian which could be either true or false... I don't need tentative things in between truth and false..

First of all did God explain the complete story of companion of elephants in Quran ?  No... It seems it is needless in view of God.. So why dig deep to what God in the first place not preferred to reveal? Learn from what is entirely detailed history.. For example Yousuf, Musa, Isa etc etc.. That's history spoken at depth... But for whatever the reason God made it very short... As I said it was contemporary event that audience were well aware... Since audience of Quran at the time of revelation well known to it why to detail it further... But God reminds how powerful He was by destroying them. .. For us after ages at least after more than a millanneum what benefit by just knowing three lines...  Quran was revealed to a community in the first place and it was not us.. That is a truth incontrovertible...  And not everything in it is for us... Certain matters are directly addressing the community which has no connection to us by any means..

I am not someone who take the quran for such purposes.. That's sheer waste of time... First of all dude find out whether kaba located in Makka is truth... Then address the matter who approached to destroy the Kaaba and God reacted against it...why would God be against companions of elephant whose very purpose was to destroy a place called Kaaba in Makka... Was it any worthy place for God to give hand in protecting it.. For me and why not for most in this forum Kaaba and Makka of modern day has no connection even with First house Ibrahim built.. So what is the use of digging the story of destroying it... First prove that Makka is and was a holy city where masjid Al Haram is located...
That's why I don't believe in history made by human... But I always learn history for knowledge in order for me to understand the best history precisely what is explained in Quran is true...

Also brother... Those who invented fabulous hadiths making huge history behind it also not babies .... God doesn't address them... Be sufficed with Quran for salvation... Hats my understanding...

BTW.. I don't know what is written in French... Would you pls explain the cream and the essence of the story.  So let me compare with chapter 105 and if I find errors then I will let you know ...



Iyyaka

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2021, 12:54:16 PM »
Peace Brother,

12:111 "In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is not invented story (Hadith) ...... ...."
I don't like invented stories..
Please connect this verse to previous verses. Muhammad is part of the general and classic path of the other messengers (real life for sure).

BTW.. I don't know what is written in French... Would you pls explain the cream and the essence of the story.  So let me compare with chapter 105 and if I find errors then I will let you know ...
You can translate by tools but i will give you some elements in english :

1) https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/yemen_2_3_4_carte_himyar_gajda_1.jpg
=> You can find a map in english here : https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/himyar-yemen-al-qaida

2) https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/abraha.pdf
=> a brief story of this historical man here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraha

3) https://archeorient.hypotheses.org/12504
a brief summary below :
"
Until very recently, Arab tradition in general, and that based on the Qur'anic narrative in particular, was considered to be largely legendary and therefore without historical foundation. The military expedition of the Ethiopian king Abraha, known as the "Elephant Expedition", against Mecca, which the Qur'an echoes in Sura 105 "The Elephant", was one of those seminal "historical" events, reported by both Arab-Muslim tradition and the Qur'an, that marked the history of Islam, but its authenticity and historicity are still debated.

Although no contemporary text of this event explicitly mentions it, the discovery by the Saudi-French Archaeological Mission in Najrān, Saudi Arabia, in the fall of 2014 and in 2018, of three drawings of elephants and an inscription of the Ethiopian ruler Abraha, lifts for the first time the doubt about this expedition and the presence of ceremonial elephants accompanying the Ethiopian ruler ruling Yemen between 535 and 565 C.E.
"
--------------
NB :
- Sura 105 forms a structural and thematic pair with Sura 106. The two must be linked for a better understanding.
Michel Cuypers (sorry, also a Frenchman) has remarkably described the different levels of structure of the last 33 suras which are relatively small taken independently of each other. When you read each sura back to their different higher organizational sets you will have a better overview with less risk of misinterpretation.
--------------

I gave my view brother of a researcher who takes into account the historical, geographical and societal context of the first men who received the primordial text (and all this obviously with a critical mind and with a cross-checking of the sources when it is possible). I just hope you will find some interesting informations from my work.

God bless you.

centi50

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2021, 12:40:55 AM »
As we all know some rare type of elephants do live in some part of semi desert areas in Africa.. But they don't travel on sand dunes of dessert like camels can do with ease..

Are there elephants in Yemen now...

God would have destroyed the people who came with elephants but not elephants.. Verses doesn't say destroyed the elephants.. Buy destroyed the companions... For me whatever hadith or history describes is mere myth


Salam to all.

Jkhan I found this in YouTube elephants in namib desert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0v5MIdyxZc Sources; 1) https://drive.google.com/…/0B3fQ9GkyI7DFRjNxdWFlZkxUQVU/view

God bless all

jkhan

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2021, 03:43:42 AM »

Salam to all.

Jkhan I found this in YouTube elephants in namib desert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0v5MIdyxZc Sources; 1) https://drive.google.com/…/0B3fQ9GkyI7DFRjNxdWFlZkxUQVU/view

God bless all

Thank you brother...

I have seen such elephants many times in discovery channel...
Whatever I saw is semi dessert and in Africa...

Are there elephants in Arabian peninsula especially in southern Arabia OR current day mecca is located... If not now at least in the recent history.. Hi early I don't know but I don't get any clue in my research....

centi50

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2021, 08:16:18 AM »
Thank you brother...

I have seen such elephants many times in discovery channel...
Whatever I saw is semi dessert and in Africa...

Are there elephants in Arabian peninsula especially in southern Arabia OR current day mecca is located... If not now at least in the recent history.. Hi early I don't know but I don't get any clue in my research....
[/quote





Salam to all,

jkhan have you read the works of Pazuzu?

He was a member here in the forum, he said all the story of the Bible was in southern Arabia specifically Yemen.  He was saying the structure of kaaba was not something new but it was find everywhere in Yemen. It's true we have the same structure in Sanaa Yemen in masjid Al kabir Courtyard make a Google search and you will see it

So maybe the raid of Abraha was actually in Yemen. Remember najran and jezan in South Saudi was Yemeni land.

Pazuzu work is here


https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/1st-E-Book_Search-for-Pharaoh.pdf

https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/2nd-E-Book_Road-of-the-Patriarch.pdf


https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/3rd-E-Book_Israel-and-Sheba.pdf


https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/4th-E-Book_The-Assyrian-Storm.pdf

Also Ashraff ezzat the author of Egypt knew no pharos nor Israelite was in more or less same as pazuzu, it goes same with fadhel al rubai'i the Iraqi historian who aslo said the original land of Jews is Yemen

Same as Kamal  salibi the bile came from Arabia


https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Bible-Came-From-Arabia-by-Kamal-Salibi-2016.pdf


God bless all

jkhan

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2021, 05:55:30 PM »
Thank you brother...

I have seen such elephants many times in discovery channel...
Whatever I saw is semi dessert and in Africa...

Are there elephants in Arabian peninsula especially in southern Arabia OR current day mecca is located... If not now at least in the recent history.. Hi early I don't know but I don't get any clue in my research....
[/quote





Salam to all,

jkhan have you read the works of Pazuzu?

He was a member here in the forum, he said all the story of the Bible was in southern Arabia specifically Yemen.  He was saying the structure of kaaba was not something new but it was find everywhere in Yemen. It's true we have the same structure in Sanaa Yemen in masjid Al kabir Courtyard make a Google search and you will see it

So maybe the raid of Abraha was actually in Yemen. Remember najran and jezan in South Saudi was Yemeni land.

Pazuzu work is here


https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/1st-E-Book_Search-for-Pharaoh.pdf

https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/2nd-E-Book_Road-of-the-Patriarch.pdf


https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/3rd-E-Book_Israel-and-Sheba.pdf


https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/4th-E-Book_The-Assyrian-Storm.pdf

Also Ashraff ezzat the author of Egypt knew no pharos nor Israelite was in more or less same as pazuzu, it goes same with fadhel al rubai'i the Iraqi historian who aslo said the original land of Jews is Yemen

Same as Kamal  salibi the bile came from Arabia


https://www.quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Bible-Came-From-Arabia-by-Kamal-Salibi-2016.pdf


God bless all

Peace Centi...

I have never heard of pazUz up untill few weeks time.. My Free-minds friend reminded and I saw in Free-minds people were asking where is pazuz... But I have never read what he has written..
If he is having a view as what you say about he must have reason why he said so.. I am glad my friend said pazuz claimed that the earth is stationary...

But the thing is for me No... Yemen and Israel has no connection... For me if dead sea of current day is truly the lake of Luth then I strongly believe almost all major prophets including all Israelite and few others and even Muhamed should have been surrounded to this lake area and not far...

If structures like Kaaba is a common seen in Yemen then it proves that this cubical structure called Kaaba is an invention first made in Yemen and spread Upto Macca by another Yemeni .. And nothing we have to take from it relevant to first house made by Ibrahim... That's Yemenis and those idolworship people's invention and their culture and religion ...
BTW.. Has Quran manifesting that Kaaba is a structure and it is first house built by Ibrahim... No chance... Kaaba for me just a rock used for slaughtering animals... Meanwhile meaning of Kaaba in Arabic could be many.
To sum up.. To this date I speculate that sanctuary of masjid Alharam and the first house built inside it is in Current Day Petra..  That makes sense for me.. Remember but only speculation.. Even if i happen to be unaware of the exact place of Masjid Alharam till my last breath it doesn't matter... Coz I don't have anything left to do there for my salvation..   All the purpose of first house and its rituals are over with last prophet..audiebce of Quran well known what is masjid Al Haram and etc.. And for us it's mystry.. . That's my take.. 

Additionally one logical question.... If current day masjid Al haram and Kaaba is the same as of Muhamed's time why original copies of Quran of the same time are not inside this masjid and Kaaba... If they can preserve the Kaaba and masjid from the time of Mohamed to up until now, why they failed to preserve a single book of quran to be inside this masjid fir everyone to see claiming this is the oldest quran.  ..strangely they preserved the Kaaba identity but failed to keep the heart of belief (quran)  ..

centi50

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2021, 10:10:26 AM »
Salam to all

Jkhan may you read the books of pazuzu its very informative.

God bless all


jkhan

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2021, 06:58:46 PM »
Salam to all

Jkhan may you read the books of pazuzu its very informative.

God bless all

In sha allah  .. Share me about his article on earth and heavens pls...

BTW I never agree about Yemen.. Coz as of now it doesn't give any concrete evidences for me ... It is only his speculation.. If he comes for open discussion I in sha Allah present my view against it..

tutti_frutti

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Re: Companion of the elephant
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2021, 07:59:41 PM »
salam

there was an elephant that lived in parts of the middle east

please google “syrian elephant”

example of ancient elephants in middle east is in the city of qatna (in modern day syria), where apparently fossils of elephants were found in the royal palace ruins

peace