Author Topic: Translation and understanding of the verse 4:159 about Jesus  (Read 378 times)

Houriya

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Translation and understanding of the verse 4:159 about Jesus
« on: February 28, 2021, 03:34:26 AM »
Peace,

I never paid attention to the meaning of the verse 4:159 before, it is after reading an article on Jesus, here is the link :

http://www.voix-islam-eclaire.fr/?s=jesus

4:159
And from / “wa-in min” the people of the Book illa are those who refused to believe / illa layu’minana in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be witness against them /alayhim.


I think that The underlined words are not translated correctly.

There are 6 occurrences of this expression “wa-in min” in the Reading, five occurences of them are translated as And every / there is not / there was not,
Except in the verse 4: 159, this expression is translated as And from


The expression "‘alayhim shaheedan" as witness against them instead of witness over them.

The expression illa layu’minana translated are those who refused to believe

Grammatical detail:

illa : Preposition of restriction that we read in the verses below



layu’minana :

Prefix: Emphasis letter "lam"
+ Radical: Verb / Tense: yu’min / he believes  Inaccomplished / Form 4 / Third person masculine singular
+ Suffix: letter "noun" (or alif + noun) marking the accentuation of a principle.


19:71
And every / wa-in min single one of you illa will encounter it. This for your Lord is a certainty that will come to pass.



15:21
And there is not / wa-in mina thing, except/illa that We have treasuries of it, yet We do not send it down except in a precise measure.


17:44
He is glorified by the seven heavens and the earth and that which is in them, and there is not / wa-in min a thing except/ illa it glorifies His praise, but you do not comprehend their glorification. He is Compassionate, Forgiving.


17:58
And there is not / wa-in min a town before the Day of Resurrection that illa We will not destroy it, or punish it with a severe punishment. This has been written in the record.

35:24
We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and a warner. There was not / wa-in min a nation that illa a warner did not come to it.


22:78
And strive for God a genuine striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system- the creed of your father Abraham. He is the One who named you 'those who have submitted' from before and in this; so let the messenger be witness over you / shaheedan ‘alaykum  and you be witness over / shuhadaa ‘ala the people. So hold the indoctrination and contribute towards purification and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.


I propose Classic translation of the verse 4:159 (Oregon State University):

4: 159 - There will be no one among the People of the Book  who will not have faith in him before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness over them.

or

4: 159 - All of the people of scripture will have faith in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness over them.

   
Both parts of the verse are either negative or affirmative.

Thank you for your comments and analyzes

Peace

Mazhar

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Re: Translation and understanding of the verse 4:159 about Jesus
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2021, 01:41:48 PM »
Peace,

I never paid attention to the meaning of the verse 4:159 before, it is after reading an article on Jesus, here is the link :

http://www.voix-islam-eclaire.fr/?s=jesus

4:159
And from / “wa-in min” the people of the Book illa are those who refused to believe / illa layu’minana in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be witness against them /alayhim.


I think that The underlined words are not translated correctly.

There are 6 occurrences of this expression “wa-in min” in the Reading, five occurences of them are translated as And every / there is not / there was not,
Except in the verse 4: 159, this expression is translated as And from


The expression "‘alayhim shaheedan" as witness against them instead of witness over them.

The expression illa layu’minana translated are those who refused to believe

Grammatical detail:

illa : Preposition of restriction that we read in the verses below



layu’minana :

Prefix: Emphasis letter "lam"
+ Radical: Verb / Tense: yu’min / he believes  Inaccomplished / Form 4 / Third person masculine singular
+ Suffix: letter "noun" (or alif + noun) marking the accentuation of a principle.


19:71
And every / wa-in min single one of you illa will encounter it. This for your Lord is a certainty that will come to pass.



15:21
And there is not / wa-in mina thing, except/illa that We have treasuries of it, yet We do not send it down except in a precise measure.


17:44
He is glorified by the seven heavens and the earth and that which is in them, and there is not / wa-in min a thing except/ illa it glorifies His praise, but you do not comprehend their glorification. He is Compassionate, Forgiving.


17:58
And there is not / wa-in min a town before the Day of Resurrection that illa We will not destroy it, or punish it with a severe punishment. This has been written in the record.

35:24
We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and a warner. There was not / wa-in min a nation that illa a warner did not come to it.


22:78
And strive for God a genuine striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system- the creed of your father Abraham. He is the One who named you 'those who have submitted' from before and in this; so let the messenger be witness over you / shaheedan ‘alaykum  and you be witness over / shuhadaa ‘ala the people. So hold the indoctrination and contribute towards purification and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.


I propose Classic translation of the verse 4:159 (Oregon State University):

4: 159 - There will be no one among the People of the Book  who will not have faith in him before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness over them.

or

4: 159 - All of the people of scripture will have faith in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness over them.

   
Both parts of the verse are either negative or affirmative.

Thank you for your comments and analyzes

Peace

Whom they refer? The whole sentence is ambiguous unless pronouns disambiguate..

Houriya

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Re: Translation and understanding of the verse 4:159 about Jesus
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2021, 12:43:43 AM »
Peace Mazhar,

Before answering your question, I'd like have others opinions if the translation is correct or not ?

Houriya

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Re: Translation and understanding of the verse 4:159 about Jesus
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2021, 02:35:39 AM »

Below an extract from the article shared in this thread :

There is no one among the Familiar of the Scriptures who does not have faith in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness about them. (Quran 4: 159)

This verse can be understood in two ways:

- the two pronouns “he” and “his” relate to Jesus: “There is no one among those Familiar with Scripture who does not have faith in Jesus before Jesus' death. "

- the pronoun" him "concerns Jesus and the pronoun" his "concerns individuals:" There is no one familiar with Scripture who does not have faith in Jesus before his personal death "

The second hypothesis poses a major problem: it would be necessary for all those familiar with Scripture (Jews and Christians) to have recognized Jesus before their death. For Christians this is not a problem, on the other hand for the Jews it is far from the case.

As for the first explanation, it is only possible if we consider a return of Jesus. Because if we take into account his first death: many Jews do not recognize him. If it is about his return and a second death, it responds to the mission of the Messiah who must unify all believers and which is expected by Jews, Christians and Muslims.

And certainly, he (Jesus) is a Sign of recognition for the Hour. (Quran 43: 61)

The term "'alam" means "a signal, a meaning, a science, to mark, to distinguish by a sign, to know how to distinguish one thing from another" 1. The Hour designates in the Koran the Last Day, the end of time, the return of the Messiah to take place at this period.

Mazhar

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Re: Translation and understanding of the verse 4:159 about Jesus
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2021, 06:48:38 AM »
Below an extract from the article shared in this thread :

There is no one among the Familiar of the Scriptures who does not have faith in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness about them. (Quran 4: 159)

This verse can be understood in two ways:

- the two pronouns “he” and “his” relate to Jesus: “There is no one among those Familiar with Scripture who does not have faith in Jesus before Jesus' death. "

- the pronoun" him "concerns Jesus and the pronoun" his "concerns individuals:" There is no one familiar with Scripture who does not have faith in Jesus before his personal death "

The second hypothesis poses a major problem: it would be necessary for all those familiar with Scripture (Jews and Christians) to have recognized Jesus before their death. For Christians this is not a problem, on the other hand for the Jews it is far from the case.

As for the first explanation, it is only possible if we consider a return of Jesus. Because if we take into account his first death: many Jews do not recognize him. If it is about his return and a second death, it responds to the mission of the Messiah who must unify all believers and which is expected by Jews, Christians and Muslims.

And certainly, he (Jesus) is a Sign of recognition for the Hour. (Quran 43: 61)

The term "'alam" means "a signal, a meaning, a science, to mark, to distinguish by a sign, to know how to distinguish one thing from another" 1. The Hour designates in the Koran the Last Day, the end of time, the return of the Messiah to take place at this period.



Arabic is an agglutinative language, the pronouns can occur as suffixes of nouns, verbs or prepositions. Therefore, Anaphora Resolution is vital to understanding the meaning of Grand Qur’ān. It means the problem of resolving what a pronoun refers to. In written or oral text anaphora can be thought of as “pointing back or referring to something or someone mentioned earlier”. The entity to which it refers is called its antecedent. The process of determining the antecedent of an anaphor—lexical entity is called anaphora resolution. It is contrasted with cataphora that refers forwards, not backwards.

https://www.haqeeqat.pk/Rescue%20plan.htm

Houriya

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Re: Translation and understanding of the verse 4:159 about Jesus
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2021, 10:53:17 AM »


Arabic is an agglutinative language, the pronouns can occur as suffixes of nouns, verbs or prepositions. Therefore, Anaphora Resolution is vital to understanding the meaning of Grand Qur’ān. It means the problem of resolving what a pronoun refers to. In written or oral text anaphora can be thought of as “pointing back or referring to something or someone mentioned earlier”. The entity to which it refers is called its antecedent. The process of determining the antecedent of an anaphor—lexical entity is called anaphora resolution. It is contrasted with cataphora that refers forwards, not backwards.

https://www.haqeeqat.pk/Rescue%20plan.htm

Thank you for sharing. Is this your article from the link ?

I admit that I did not understand the meaning of what you wrote above.

can you quickly summarize your analysis of verse 4: 159 ?

Thanks




Mazhar

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Re: Translation and understanding of the verse 4:159 about Jesus
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2021, 06:56:29 PM »
Thank you for sharing. Is this your article from the link ?

I admit that I did not understand the meaning of what you wrote above.

can you quickly summarize your analysis of verse 4: 159 ?

Thanks

Yes that is my article. All work on website is mine. You will have to read  and  understand yourself..