Author Topic: to consider on ablution  (Read 1260 times)

good logic

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Re: to consider on ablution
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2021, 12:06:19 PM »
Peace Fadixa.

That would not make sense you need a third noun. Wipe what with your head and feet?
Wiping with something is using it to wipe.
However the sentence in context of the verse makes sense. "Imsahu Bi Ruusikun"= wipe your heads.
My take.
GOD bless you.
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?


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Re: to consider on ablution
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 08:34:46 AM »
Salaamun Alaykum,
thank you for bring this topic in. By reading this, something came to my mind. Maybe it's not really related to your question, but let me share my thought.

This is one of my thought regarding the benefit of water and exercise that I have put in another forum, so let me put it in here,

Reading the story of the prophet Ayyub in Al Quran there are things that are interesting regarding the devil's whisper that can cause laziness, fatigue, even stress that causes depression.

38:41 And recall Our servant Ayyub, when he called upon his Lord: "The devil has afflicted me with distress <binusbin>  and suffering <wa adhabin>."

We certainly know that this is not a physical distraction from the devil, but rather a whisper that affects the mind and causes stress.

Bad mental condition can affect physical health conditions. Satan whispers bad thoughts, such as fear, excessive anxiety, which causes stress to depression. For people who are not strong enough, it can be fatal, which can lead to suicide.

And then God responded to the prophet Ayyub's prayer as follows,
38:42 ur'kuḍ birij'lika hādhā mugh'tasalun bāridun washarābun

I translate it as follows,

ur'kuḍ =
Ra-Kaf-Dad = to move the feet, urge, strike heavily (with foot), fly, run.

with your foot


water to wash
Gh-Siin-Lam = wash, purify, removing of dirt or filth, cleanse; covered much or often; water with which one washes himself; a certain plant growing in places that exude water and produce salt, place for washing, spring.


and a drink

So from the above verse it can be seen that to get rid of stress that causes depression or laziness is to run and wash with water.

From my personal experience, it is true that exercising, especially running, can reduce or eliminate stress, because when exercising our bodies produce endorphins that make us relax.

Now, what does all of this have to do with verse 5: 6?

In my opinion, verse 5: 6 does not stand alone, but relates to 4:43, because they explain to one another.

I will put my own translation here, so you can see the connection between 5:6, 4:43 and 38:42.

But before that I want you to know that my understanding of Salat is studying the Quran at a specified time and then applying these God's rules in daily life.

So let see,

yāayyuhā alladhīna āmanū  = O you who believe

la taqrabū l-ṣalata wa-antum sukārā ḥattā taʿlamū mā taqūlūna = Do not go near SALAT while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying.

walā junuban = and not (when you are) in a distance (to me, it's in respect of relationship with God, could be cause by something that similar to intoxicated. see 5:91)

Jim-Nun-Ba : a man who is distant, or remote

illa abiri sabīlin ḥattā taghtasilū = except when passing through a way until you have washed

*This taghtasilu related to 5:6 and what prophet Ayyub had done in the past in 38:42

wa-in kuntum marḍā aw ʿalā safarin aw jāa aḥadun minkum mina l-ghāiṭi aw lāmastumu l-nisāa falam tajidū māan
And if you are ill or on a journey or came one of you from the toilet or you have touched he women and you dont find water

fatayammamū ṣaʿīdan ṭayyiban
then aim (at)  good run (or move with quick step faster than when walking)

Sad-Ayn-Dal = to ascend, mount, run, move with quick steps faster than when walking, go up, be hard (affair).

*Tayammum in corpus
(2:267:15) tayammamū   aim (at)   وَلَا تَيَمَّمُوا الْخَبِيثَ مِنْهُ تُنْفِقُونَ
(4:43:38) fatayammamū   then do tayammum   أَوْ لَامَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ فَلَمْ تَجِدُوا مَاءً فَتَيَمَّمُوا صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا
(5:6:40) fatayammamū   then do tayyammum

fa-im'saḥū biwujūhikum wa-aydīkum
and wipe with it your faces and your hands  (there will be water coming from your sweat)

innal-laha kāna ʿafuwwan ghafūran
Indeed, Allah is Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

So my conclusion, washing our face and hands with water to get rid of the effects of intoxicate, or by doing exercise (running) if we couldn't find water can be done when it is time for Salat comes (reading the Quran) to reconcile our relationship with God.

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Finally, fa-igh'silū in 5:6 is the explanation on how to do taghtasilū in 4:43 as per mugh'tasalun in 38:42. You can verify for yourself, I don't want to cause a debate, I just want to share the ideas which if you agree, you can develop for yourself.



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Re: to consider on ablution
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2021, 04:10:25 AM »
God increase us in knowledge

+nimnimak_11, good logic

the way the phrase is formulated is simple enough. still i don't know why they didn't include the "with" or "using" in 5:6. probably to make other people directly understand what the verse meant by their standards.

contemplate on this difference for insight:
1-draw your left hand
2-draw with/using your left hand

the intent in that verse is not to wipe something, but to wipe "using" something.
"using" is a constrain. if we are doing an action in a specific way, then we are constrainted in that specific way.
so for the question what to wipe, that is not a constraint: the doer is left to choose whatever he wants. i personally wipe my hands with my head/hair. you're allowed to use other means. not constraining something is making the idea of free choice appear.
the end result of the action is the head will be half washed half dry.

note that the feet should be wiped( it is the 'what'), a clear difference between 'wipe using head' and 'wipe feet'.
i use a towel for that.

we are free to complete the actions however we want/need as long it met all the constraints in the verse.

   wipe with your head and wipe your feet.
   i wipe *my hands* with my head and i wipe my feet *with a towel*

thank you for your insights especially about ayyoub story.
but i beg to differ:

وَلَا تَيَمَّمُوا الْخَبِيثَ مِنْهُ تُنْفِقُونَ
the context here is filtering out the bad of the rizk, giving to the needy what is bad and keeping what is good of your rizk. god ordered us to not do that.
tayammum is filtering out what is considered bad

ṣaʿīdan ṭayyiban
there is a theory that having a quality of ṭayyib makes it more related to something physical rather than a concept. i'm guessing.

from quran janaba is  "to make {something1} avoid {something2}",
from 14:35
رَبِّ اجْعَلْ هَٰذَا الْبَلَدَ آمِنًا وَاجْنُبْنِي وَبَنِيَّ أَنْ نَعْبُدَ الْأَصْنَامَ

i apologize that i don't know what form is used on junuban. if someone can pinpoint where junuban should reside( in something1 or something2) please do so.
but generaly you are either avoiding or being avoided (both are not the same as making others avoid something).
which gives the image of physical cleaness: being dirty and having a bad smell. you not wanting to be embarassed so you avoid, or others not wanting to get dirty so you are being avoided

running is not helping with the above with if you can't clean yourself afterwards (no water). that is at least one indication that the verse is not related to exercising.

God increase us in knowledge


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Re: to consider on ablution
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2021, 05:46:53 AM »
Peace YouTube,

Read 4.43, how do you understand " Fatayammamu sa3iyfan tayyiban famsa7u biwujuhikum wa aydiykum" ?