Author Topic: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time  (Read 2165 times)

Houriya

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2021, 09:35:20 AM »
Peace,

This is only my personal opinion, God only knows who is wrong and who is right.

According to you siyam = restorative fasting (abstinence from eating and drinking ..).

I understand siyam as a spiritual retreat.

I try to understand taqwa and siyam in the light of the Reading, I exclude over-interpretation like siyam = restorative fasting,

or tattaqoon =  to guard oneself with a restorative fasting.

Both understandings are possible, I made the choice of spiritual retreat for the reasons explained above.

I agree that abstaining from eating and drinking is a great way to heal the physical body, I try to practice intermittent fasting regularly.

Peace




Iyyaka

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2021, 10:07:05 AM »
Peace,

This is only my personal opinion, God only knows who is wrong and who is right.

According to you siyam = restorative fasting (abstinence from eating and drinking ..).

I understand siyam as a spiritual retreat.

I try to understand taqwa and siyam in the light of the Reading, I exclude over-interpretation like siyam = restorative fasting,

or tattaqoon =  to guard oneself with a restorative fasting.

Both understandings are possible, I made the choice of spiritual retreat for the reasons explained above.

I agree that abstaining from eating and drinking is a great way to heal the physical body, I try to practice intermittent fasting regularly.

Peace
Peace be upon you.
No problem i just respond to your questions.
Yes a spiritual retreat is encouraged by the Quran during (all or a part?) fasting of Ramadan.
And, additionally, by reading the Quran, we can ask ourselves the following question : Does the women practiced fasting during the lifetime of Muhammad (pbsl) ? not so obvious..
For my translation "restorative fasting" (i recognize that it is not so well rendered in English!), it is linked to the other occurrences of the word siyam in the Quran (an atonement/expiation for something).
But just a question : why asked questions if you are convinced of something? expose and share your opinions.

NB: the text deliver first an understandable message for Arab people in Arabia in the beginning of the 7° century
Sometimes, it can be difficult to find the historical true for some contexts, but not all is relative otherwise why we need of the Quran ? In this case we have just follow our opinions or fantasies (as madhi does for giving a new direction for the word siyam in sura 2, or others for the word Hajj). No need for Quran for that.

Houriya

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2021, 01:27:54 PM »
Peace,

What i tried to say in my last post, we can't prove with certainty the meaning of words like the night of alkadr, ramadan, we have indications in the quran. It is up to everyone to make a choice in the light of the indications of the quran.

About siyam for fault, siyam is recommended to be aware , meditate..

Siyam is addressed to both men and women, no contact between them during the spiritual retreat,
observing the silence.

Peace

reel

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2021, 07:39:37 AM »

I understand siyam as a spiritual retreat.

Both understandings are possible, I made the choice of spiritual retreat for the reasons explained above.

I agree that abstaining from eating and drinking is a great way to heal the physical body, I try to practice intermittent fasting regularly.

Peace



Please report on your experience. I did the experiment last year. It left me feeling great. It was as if God was becoming a very very close friend. Felt so satisfied and encouraged at the end of each day. I will not go back to abstaining from eating and fasting. It seems to have the opposite effect.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Houriya

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2021, 06:02:31 AM »
Peace Reel,

Thank you for your input.

My first spiritual retreat is as beneficial as salat but over a long period. It is a meeting with our creator in our interior space.

Peace


Houriya

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2021, 07:21:34 AM »
An article on spiritual retreat in the Quran. You can translate it with google from French to English.

http://www.voix-islam-eclaire.fr/2020/01/11/la-retraite-spirituelle-en-islam-anne-sophie-monsinay-2/


Fadiva

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2021, 09:49:12 AM »
Peace the losttruthofislam, reel and Houriya,

If siyam is a spiritual retreat, remaining silent (not talking to other) and remembering God, why can't a sick person do it? 
But on the other side:
One can ask the same question about not eating but not drinking is quite difficult.

About travelling : nowadays why can't one fast the traditional way while travelling ? Stop talking  to someone and staying concentrated remembering God would be complicated while travelling.


Houriya

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2021, 12:50:31 PM »
Peace Fadiva,

Thank you for your relevant questions.

God wants ease for us, it is for this reason that sick people are exempt. The ideal is to do it in good physical condition. if we are sick, we will know whether or not we can do it.

The trip is incompatible with the purpose of spiritual retreat. You can refrain from eating and drinking while traveling, but it depends on the circumstances of the trip.

Houriya

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2021, 01:02:38 PM »
Article on the attitude of devotion, a look at the qunût in the Koran

http://www.voix-islam-eclaire.fr/2021/01/22/khutba-20-lattitude-de-devotion-un-regard-sur-le-qunut-dans-le-coran-omero-marongiu-perria-22-janvier-2021/

Extract from the article :

My dear co-religionists, in this sermon I suggest that you take a look at some aspects of the believer's devotion. The use of the term devotion, in French, dates back to the 12th century. with the meaning of "religious zeal"; by this we mean religious practices, of course, but more generally the specific devotion of a believer to God through regular, more or less codified practices. Devotion therefore encompasses a fervor, which can be defined as the "outburst of a passionate and enthusiastic heart," 1 as well as reverence, in the sense of a deep and admiring attachment which results in an attitude. general respect and humility in our relationship with God. In my meditative readings of the Koran, I was challenged by the root qnt because it is both an attribute of believers totally devoted to God, but it is also the natural posture of the whole of creation in the sense that it is constantly oriented towards God. I will quote, by way of illustration, verse 26 of sura 30 (The Byzantines):

To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth, all are devoted to Him.

This Qur'anic passage evokes something that eludes many humans, namely the fundamental orientation of the world which naturally inclines to the posture of devotion to God.

There are, in my opinion, two important things which deserve to be meditated here: the first is that of the fundamental orientation which is inscribed at the bottom of us but which, very often unfortunately, escapes us. How to name it? For my part, I will use the Arabic term of fitra, which is generally translated by “primordial nature” or “innate nature” in the sense of a natural disposition to believe and to orient one's life towards God. But it is not so simple because we feel deep inside us, even as believers, that the simple introspection or the contemplation of the world is not enough to be ecstatic in front of the creation to orient oneself immediately and "naturally. To the Creator. This is where the second element comes in, which is related to the experience of life and the experience of acts of devotion. These are not limited to acts of worship, of course, but they encompass all aspects of our existence. This is the deepest meaning of the Arabic term 'ibâda , which is falsely translated as "cult"; the 'ibâdais the direct consequence of religious feeling, of awareness of the vastness of the universe and of the omnipotence of God. It is devotion, the true and deepest, that permeates every moment of our life, and acts of worship are only there to help perfect this orientation.

Two passages from the Koran illustrate my point, the first, verse 9 of sura 39 (Groups), is general:

The one who is in a state of devotion, in the dead of night; he prostrates himself and stands up, worrying about his last life and hoping for the Mercy of his Lord… Say: are those who know the same rank as those who ignore? Only those endowed with reason remember.

The knowledge which is mentioned in this Koranic passage is not of an intellectual order, it is not a question of the 'ilm in the sense of a scientific or academic knowledge, but of the deep conviction of the one who has experienced the relation to the divine and who is in a process which leads him towards spiritual Knowledge. The Qur'an also dwells a great deal on the link between observation of the world and of oneself, on the one hand, and the concrete experience of the divine which anchors conviction deep within. This is in a way the recommendation that God makes to Mary in this second Koranic passage, verse 43 of sura 3 (The family of Imrân):

O, Marie! Be devoted to your Lord; bow down and bow with those who bow [in prayer].

Mary will experience the divine and deep conviction when she prepares to give birth to Jesus at the foot of a palm tree, then when she presents the child to her family.

For their part, the first Muslims seem to have fully understood the deep meaning of devotion since they interpreted the term qânit as the posture of one who attests to his state of dependence on God. This is the deepest sense of faith, which lies at the junction of the deepest intuition, the one with which the fitra has imbued us from the creation of the human being and the consciousness of God which is reflected , among others, through feelings of humility, respect, love, etc. The qunût, another term derived from the root qnt, is associated with the specific position that the believer adopts during his office. It is a question here of being in meditation, during a more or less long time, standing, inclined, sitting, in its reading and / or its meditation.

From there, it is up to each one to found his own experience of the divine, to learn to observe the world and to let emerge what the natural disposition has inscribed in his interior. It is a state of mind and a posture specific to each one, and acts of worship allow us to open a channel of communication with the divine which, if it is useful and primordial, is neither exhaustive nor exclusive since the posture of devotion encompasses our whole being and our whole life, not just the few minutes that we take to perform our office, sometimes very expeditiously.

Houriya

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2021, 01:11:28 PM »
An article on spiritual retreat in the Quran. You can translate it with google from French to English.

http://www.voix-islam-eclaire.fr/2020/01/11/la-retraite-spirituelle-en-islam-anne-sophie-monsinay-2/

Extract fron the article :

Spiritual retreat in the Quran

“For many, spiritual retreat is a practice reserved for Sufis, initiates, a sort of elite who would have chosen to consecrate themselves to God with greater fervor than others. Although Sunni orthodoxy has not retained it as part of the pillars of practice, we note that this theme is present on numerous occasions in the Koran.

In the Koranic text, the retreat is often associated with a place: the cave for the sleepers of the sura "The cave", the Kaaba or the mosques. The prophets all retired to various places: the cave of Muhammad, the desert for Jesus, Moses and David, the well of Joseph, the whale for Jonah… We notice that the places can be isolated places in nature, in the 'distance from men, or holy places, reserved for worship such as the Kaaba or mosques.

It was then that We made the Ka`ba temple a place of retreat and a haven of peace for men, recommending them to make Abraham's station a place of prayer. Just as We entrusted to Abraham and Ishmael the care of preserving the purity of Our temple for those who will come there to accomplish ritual circuits, to make a retreat or to bow down and meditate. (Quran 2: 125)

We already draw two methods from it: in one case it is done alone, in the other in community (at the Kaaba or in the mosques).

The Koran also fixes a temporal modality for the execution of these retreats at the time of Ramadan. There is of course no religious obligation here. In reality, the notion of religious obligation is hardly present in the Koran. The text proposes practices and often leaves a great deal of leeway and a free choice as to their application. The Arabic term "kitâb" (Koran 4: 103) does not mean "obligation" but "prescription", that is to say a recommendation. In his work, which was the subject of a doctoral thesis, Dr. Al-Ajami explains this distinction very well when he writes: “Always according to the same Koranic coherence, let us specify that a prescription (kitâb) does not is not a requirement. […] Also, by definition, any prescription (kitâb) is not compulsory, it is only a written recommendation. It was only under the influence of legal exegesis specific to the objectives of Islam that the term (kitâb) was superimposed on the meaning of obligation, even of divine law. "1

For retirement, there is therefore no obligation, but an incentive:

Intimacy towards your wives has been made lawful to you during fasting night. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. God knows you've betrayed yourself, so He turned back to you and forgave you. Have a joyful contact with them and long for what God has prescribed for you, and eat and drink until the white thread stands out from the black thread at daybreak. Then complete the fast until the night, and do not have intimate relations with them while you share a retreat in the mosques. These are the limits that God sets! So do not approach them! This is how God makes His Signs explicit to humans! May you beware! (Quran 2: 187)

...

This brings us to the meaning of retirement. In verse 187 of sura 2, the term akifun from the root "gayn ka fa" means "to cleave, to imprison, to be diligent, to indulge in, to dedicate oneself to, to abide, to consecrate oneself, to adjust and to repair, but also the fact of staying constantly in a place to dedicate oneself to something ”. Thus, by this voluntary imprisonment, the person consecrates both to God and to repair or adjust in himself his faults and shortcomings.