Author Topic: Forced marriage forbidden ?  (Read 500 times)

Fadiva

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Forced marriage forbidden ?
« on: February 11, 2021, 05:07:26 PM »
Salam everyone,

I haven't found a verse that "forbids" forced marriage. It doesn't mean automatically that forced is allowed.
I haven't read a verse in which forced marriage is allowed neither.
It seems to me that the future  spouses are willing, not under compulsion ( I am more sure for the man) .

Maybe I have missed something.
The question is: Can a muslim stop a forced marriage using verses from al Quran ? ( which verses ? )

Wakas

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Fadiva

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Re: Forced marriage forbidden ?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2021, 04:51:39 AM »
Salam Wakas,

Yes we can see mutual agreement. In verse 2.232 is mentioned marriage after divorce ( agreement of the spouses). 
4.19: is about forced inheritence from women and taking back the money or other goods from wives. I can't see the problem of forced marriage.

I couldn't see example of forced marriage on al Quran and what attitude we should have in front of it.
I mean when parents force their children to marry the persons they chose.
Or the example of parents giving their daughter without her approval to a man after he proposes marriage.
Is it a clear verse that forbids that. Can we say "Allah disapprove that"  ?
We can't say that without knowing for sure.

Of course forced marriage seems unfair.

Fadiva

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Re: Forced marriage forbidden ?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2021, 03:12:14 PM »
I precise that it is my understanding of some translations of verses about "marriage". And I noticed a few differences in some translations. As I am a non Arabic speaker ( I can just speak darija in which I can find some arabic called fos7a), I can't be sure 100% about the translations.

Maybe I asked to fast a question for which I need to investigate more.
I just wanted to know if I missed something someone noticed in the Quran.


Wakas

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Re: Forced marriage forbidden ?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2021, 12:00:13 AM »

4.19: is about forced inheritence from women and taking back the money or other goods from wives. I can't see the problem of forced marriage.


Please translate the Arabic for us if you think that. This will help you:
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=19#(4:19:1)
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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ade_cool

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Re: Forced marriage forbidden ?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2021, 06:39:59 AM »
Salam everyone,

I haven't found a verse that "forbids" forced marriage. It doesn't mean automatically that forced is allowed.
I haven't read a verse in which forced marriage is allowed neither.
It seems to me that the future  spouses are willing, not under compulsion ( I am more sure for the man) .

Maybe I have missed something.
The question is: Can a muslim stop a forced marriage using verses from al Quran ? ( which verses ? )

Salam Fadiva,

On top of what Wakas already mentioned, you might want to have a look at verse 24:33

Below is translation from sahih international:
[24:33] But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess - then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.


Let's analyze the part that I highlighted in bold:
(1) Prostitution is forbidden
(2) Being chaste is commanded
(3) If the girls desire chastity, then it is not OK to compel them into prostitution. Does it mean it is OK to compel the girls into prostitution if they don't desire chastity? Based on #1, then regardless whether the girls desire or don't desire chastity, compelling them into prostitution is not OK.
(4) Based on #2, being chaste is not something that believers have options to desire or not to desire. It is commanded so one must strive to maintain chastity.

Now that we have established that better translation is needed, let's try to come up with one.

- The word translated as prostitution is ٱلْبِغَآءِ

From PRL:
Root ب غ ي

Sought for or after, desired, endeavored to find and take and get (good or evil)
Loving or affecting a thing
Acting wrongfully, injuriously or tyrannically
Seeking or endeavoring to act corruptingly, wrongly and/or unjustly, insolent/disobedient
Exceeding due bounds or just limits in any way
Not right, proper or fit
Prostitute or adulteress, unchaste [e.g. 19:20, 19:28, 24:33]
Seeking what one should not seek
Seeking game or prey
Place where a thing is sought, way or manner in which a thing is sought

- The word translated as chastity is تَحَصُّنًا

From PRL:
Root ح ص ن

To be guarded, be inaccessible/unapproachable, be chaste, be strongly fortified, difficult to access, be preserved, be protected (against attack), abstain from what is not lawful nor decorous, preserve or guard a thing in places inaccessible/unapproachable, make or render a thing inaccessible or unapproachable or difficult to access, make/render a thing unattainable by reason of its height, to fortify oneself.

Proposed refined translation:

[24:33] And let those who are not able to marry continue to be chaste until God enriches them of His bounty. And if those whom your right hands possess desire Kitab/decree (blessings - given the context of seeking marriage, decree here is in the form of blessings),  then decree (bless) them if you know goodness in them, and  give them from the wealth of God which He has bestowed upon you. And do not force your young women against sought for if they have desired to be unapproachable, in order that you may make a  gain in the goods of this worldly life. And if anyone has compelled  them, then for their compulsion, God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Some notes:
- In the beginning of the verse, we are commanded to remain chaste if not able to marry. So being chaste is not something we have options to desire or not to desire.
- The overall context is about marriage. The act of marriage itself is not forbidden. What makes it forbidden is if it is forced (against what the girls want).
- Arranged marriage itself is not forbidden as long as not against what the girls want. It is not uncommon that girls leave the choice to her parents.


Wassalam

Fadiva

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Re: Forced marriage forbidden ?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2021, 12:53:26 PM »
Please translate the Arabic for us if you think that. This will help you:
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=19#(4:19:1)

Salam Wakas,

Here a translation word by word of verse 4.19 (I don't if it fit very well) :
Ya 'ayuha (Hey) aladhiyna (those who) amanu (believed/had faith) la (not) ya7ilu (is lawful/is allowed) lakum (for you) an (that) tarithu (you inherit) al nisa'a (the women) karhan (hate, disgust, revilsion/by force) and not ta3aDuluhuna (you constraint them/make it hard to them) litadhabu (so that you take) biba3di (a part?) ma (what/which/that) ataytumuhuna (you have them) illa (except) an (that) yatiyna (they do/give) bifa7ichatin ( bi -with? awfulness/atrocity/adultery) mubayatin (visible/obvious?/proved) wa3achiruhuna ( and you will live with them) bi al ma3roufi ( with what is known/with kindness) fa3asa (so maybe) an (that) takrahou (you hate/you are disgusted by/you are revulsed by) chay'an (a thing) wayaj3al ( and? has created/placed) Allahou fiyhi (in it) kharan (good) kathiyran (great, a lot).

Inherit the women maybe not from the women. My "problem" of understanding is in the word inherit.

Fadiva

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Re: Forced marriage forbidden ?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2021, 12:59:55 PM »
Salam ade cool,

We can have different understandings from different translations, that is a problem.

Wakas

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Re: Forced marriage forbidden ?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2021, 05:49:18 AM »
peace Fadiva,

(hate, disgust, revilsion/by force)

When translating the Arabic one must pay attention to the word form (not just the root) and its usage elsewhere in Quran. The site corpus.quran.com is good for this, simply click on the word and it brings up its other occurrences, e.g.

Noun
(3:83:12) wakarhan   or unwillingly   وَلَهُ أَسْلَمَ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ طَوْعًا وَكَرْهًا
(4:19:10) karhan   (by) force   يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا يَحِلُّ لَكُمْ أَنْ تَرِثُوا النِّسَاءَ كَرْهًا
(9:53:5) karhan   unwillingly   قُلْ أَنْفِقُوا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا لَنْ يُتَقَبَّلَ مِنْكُمْ
(13:15:8) wakarhan   or unwillingly   وَلِلَّهِ يَسْجُدُ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ طَوْعًا وَكَرْهًا
(41:11:13) karhan   unwillingly   فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ ائْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهً

You will see that it means compulsion/unwillingly/forcefully.

What is the opposite of unwillingly? It is willingly: with one's own free will, by consent.

Thus, the only lawful way, as per Quran, to "inherit" women is willingly.

But let's say one argues this word "inherit" is unclear, maybe its referring to something else, and it doesn't rule out "forced marriage".

Well all evidence clearly suggests mutual agreement:
https://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=14

Quote:
Quote
Marriage is done by mutual agreement:

And if you divorce the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then do not prevent/hinder them that they marry their partners if they mutually agree between themselves in a kind/equitable manner... [2:232]

In the following verse, it is also made clear that a couple undergoing divorce can only get back together if they both wish to:

And the divorced women shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile... [2:228]



All examples in The Quran involving decisions between marriage partners are in the reciprocal Arabic word form, e.g. "taraadaa" [2:232-233, 4:24], "tashaawar" [2:233], which means they are mutual.



It would be a contradiction to claim mutual agreement is required for reconciliation, dowry and all other examples in Quran but not for the act of marriage itself.



 
Quote
Inherit the women maybe not from the women..

Exactly.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Fadiva

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Re: Forced marriage forbidden ?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2021, 08:54:07 AM »
Salam Wakas ,


Yes I also understand mutual agreement between the future wife and future husband.


 :)

May Allah guide us.