Author Topic: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?  (Read 895 times)

Sania Haque

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Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« on: January 23, 2021, 09:41:05 AM »
Salam everyone,

What the heck did i just stumbled upon ?  :brickwall:
Here's the link : https://primaquran.com/2020/09/17/nothing-left-out-of-this-book-the-manipulation-of-the-quran-only-religion/


“And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed.” (Qur’an 6:21)

 
Now one thing you will immediately notice when dealing with the Qur’an only religion is that most of them do not even speak Arabic. Most of them try and appeal to converts (who have very poor or weak Arabic). They have a reason for doing this, because they prey upon the fact that you do not understand the Arabic and thus, are able to manipulate what the text says.

A prime example is their manipulation of this verse:

“We did not leave anything out of this book.” (Qur’an 6:38) Now as my website is directed primarily to an English speaking audience let me ask you this.

Is there a difference between saying:

“We did not leave anything out of this book.” and

“We did not leave anything out of the book.”

If I were to say ‘the book’ then this is vague. What book am I actually referring to? If I say ‘this book’ than I am referring to a book that is actually with me.

The Arabic word used here is l-kitabi. L-kitabi need not necessarily be a reference to the Qur’an at all.

It is the same word that is used in the following verses:

“And there followed them successors who inherited the book taking the commodities of this lower life and saying, “It will be forgiven for us.” And if an offer like it comes to them, they will take it. Was not the covenant of the book taken from them that they would not say about Allah except the truth, and they studied what was in it? And the home of the Hereafter is better for those who fear Allah, so will you not use reason?” (Qur’an 7:169)

It is very obvious that l-kitabi Is not a reference to the Qur’an in the above text.

“And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the book that, “You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach haughtiness.” (Qur’an 17:4)

It is very obvious that l-kitabi is a not a reference to the Qur’an as it was sent down to the Blessed Prophet Muhammed (saw).


“And do not argue with the People of the book  except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, “We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our Allah and your Allah is one; and we are Muslims to Him.” (Qur’an 29:46)

It is very obvious that l-kitabi is not a reference to the Qur’an in the above verse.

“Have you not considered those who practice hypocrisy, saying to their brothers who have disbelieved among the People of the Book, “If you are expelled, we will surely leave with you, and we will not obey, in regard to you, anyone – ever; and if you are fought, we will surely aid you.” But Allah testifies that they are liars.” (Qu’ran 59:11)


Can you imagine Allah (swt) calling (ahli Qur’an) people of the Qur’an liars? Obviously l-kitabi above is not a reference to the Qur’an.

Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the book  and the polytheist will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.” (Qur’an 98:6)

Can you imagine Allah (swt) saying those who disbelieved among the (ahli Qur’an) will be with the polytheist in hell forever? It is obvious that l-kitabi above is not a reference to the Qur’an.

 

The logical contradiction.


“We did not leave anything out of this book.” (Qur’an 6:38)

In order for this verse to be true in the way that those who follow the Qur’an only religion would have us to believe this verse would have to be the last verse revealed in the Qur’an. If any other verses came after it, this entails a logical and absolutely devastating blow to their position.
 

The Qur’an was not sent down all at once.
 

“And those who disbelieve say: Why is not the Quran revealed to him all at once? Thus, that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it to you gradually, in stages.” (Qur’an 25:32)


Also if they don’t know the last verse of the Qur’an to be revealed that also is a logical and devastating blow to the way they understand the verse. Because it means that what was revealed first and last has been left out of the Qur’an! This is important for their argument.
 

Allah (swt) has clearly told us that he has not included everything in the Qur’an.

 
“And messengers We have mentioned unto you before and messengers We have not mentioned unto you; and Allah spoke directly to Moses.” (Qur’an 4:164)

So how exactly do we understand the verse that is consistent with not only logic but with the Qur’an itself?

“And the book will be placed open, and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, “Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?” And they will find what they did present before them. And your Lord does injustice to no one.” (Qur’an 18:49)

Are we really to understand this to mean ,”So as for he who is given the Qur’an in his right hand, he will say, “Here, read my Qur’an!” No. That is ridiculous. It is very obvious that l-kitabi (this book) above is not a referee to the Qur’an at all. Rather it is a reference to the book that contains each and every single act that we have done. The Qur’an for example obviously does not contain each and every evil small or great that humans have done.

So as for he who is given his book in his right hand, he will say, “Here, read my book! (Qur’an 69:19)

“But as for he who is given his book behind his back.” (Qur’an 84:10)

Are we really to understand this as “But as for he who is given his Qur’an behind his back?”   It is best if we understand (Qur’an 6:38) in light of a verse that will help bring clarity to the confusion of those who follow the Qur’an Only Religion.

If only they were guided to reflect upon the following verse:

“There is no creature on earth whose sustenance is not undertaken by Allah. He knows where it lives and where it rests. Everything is in a Book that is clear.” (Qur’an 11:6)

It should be more than obvious that both the verses above refer to some celestial register where the minutia of all things are kept, and not tot he Qur’an.

Conclusion:

The verse (Qur’an 6:38) itself does not indicate if it is talking about the Qur’an or not.

It is only through secondary sources that we know that.

The only way out from this air tight argument from an intra-Qura’n perspective is to accept the verses mentioned above that make one realize that it is talking about the book of deeds that is with Allah (swt).

The followers of the Qur’an Only Religion don’t want to accept this because it completely nukes one of their central talking points.

Dear readers those people who follow the Qur’an only religion more often than not have very poor and weak knowledge of the Arabic language. Many of them can barely speak it, if at all. You do not see them offering to recite to you the Qur’an in Arabic, with proper recitation. The level of understanding of Arabic among them is quite atrocious. This is not to be mean; however, to be brutally honest. This is why they rely upon such very weak arguments to present their case.

( It's me not him, why is that these people just have to make stupid statements like that " they have very poor and weak knowledge " like sorry bruh but some of the people i have met here can end this guy's whole career. )🙄🙃

good logic

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2021, 11:58:11 AM »
Does this guy know Qoran himself? Has he deliberately left other verses that make Qoran Alone  a source of salvation? like:

Qoran 6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "God's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside God." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."

[Qoran 7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

[Qoran 10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than God. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.

[Qoran 12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

[Qoran 6:114] Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[Qoran 6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

[Qoran 22:52] We did not send before you any messenger, nor a prophet, without having the devil interfere in his wishes. God then nullifies what the devil has done. God perfects His revelations. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.(Qoran Alone nullifies hadith!!)

...And many more. if the guy wants to look at Qoran by himself for himself.

The other point about the word Al Kitab  is specific and identified as "The book"  We are supposed to know this book  and refer to/study it, not any other book like he claims could mean deeds or whatever. other book that we are supposed to guess!.
So who does not know Arabic?
 Never mind though, each to their own understanding.
GOD bless .
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

Wakas

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2021, 12:25:51 PM »
1)
Claims "Quran only" take it to mean X. Well here is the note for that verse from Quran Reformist Translation (i.e. Quran only):

Quote
This verse is primarily about the master record that records everything we do. However, with its secondary meaning it implies the Quran too, since it contains all we need to attain eternal salvation (16:89).

2)
Ignores before and after verses.

3)
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran_clear_complete_detailed_explained.htm
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Sarah

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2021, 06:50:46 PM »
Peace


Even if we as Qur'an only Muslims may have mistaken a verse or two such has verse 6:38:
'All living beings roaming the earth and winged birds soaring in the sky are communities like yourselves.1 We have left nothing out of the Record.2 Then to their Lord they will be gathered all together.'

This could indeed be referring to a celestial record of all things. However, this does not mean we are wrong about verses such as:

'[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt. 
[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.'

If the Qur'an/ word of God itself mentions that it is complete, why do the teachings found within the hadith give us extra-quranic religious rulings not found in the fully detailed Qur'an? The Qur'an teaches that there is freedom of religion whereas the hadith teaches to kill the apostates, it has many verses of violence such as the prophet being pleased at the murder of non-Muslims for mocking him, some hadith mention random Jews being murdered without clearly mentioning the context i.e. if they were at war so it wasn't as if the jews were just killed in a battle- it was cold-blooded murder and the list goes on. How is this in line with the Qur'an? Anybody who's done their research on hadith will know that hadith contradict the Qur'an many times. It is clear from the Qur'an that we should not follow any other hadith after it. So 'those people who follow the Qur’an only religion' have done their research on Qur'an vs. hadith.
'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

shukri

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2021, 09:43:21 PM »
Salam everyone,

A prime example is their manipulation of this verse:
“We did not leave anything out of this book.” (Qur’an 6:38) Now as my website is directed primarily to an English speaking audience let me ask you this.

Is there a difference between saying:
“We did not leave anything out of this book.” and
“We did not leave anything out of the book.”

Salam!

By using Al-Muzzammil method, "The book" in this verse (6:38) indeed is not meant for the quran. BUT it is referring to "master tablet/Mother of the Book" 

Al-Muzzammil method: https://al-muzzammil.com/relevance_miracle/19_based_calc.html

(Code 1)
85:22 ...master tablet (Luh-Mahfudz)
6:38  ...“We did not leave anything out of the book.”
--> 638 8522 = 336238 x 19
P8 (Issues)
L6 (Messenger related)
(Indication: Wording "the book" is referring to "master tablet")

(Code 2)
85:22 ... master tablet (Luh-Mahfudz)
3:7 ...Mother of the Book (Ummul-kitab)
--> (7) (22) = 38 x 19
P8 (Issues)
L3 (Include Missing Information)
(Indication: "Master tablet" is meant for "Mother of the Book")

But i personally be a quran alone follower is based on other reasons nothing to do with verse 6:38!
AQ 7:52 We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

Thank you.


reel

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2021, 11:10:16 AM »
Peace


Even if we as Qur'an only Muslims may have mistaken a verse or two such has verse 6:38:
'All living beings roaming the earth and winged birds soaring in the sky are communities like yourselves.1 We have left nothing out of the Record.2 Then to their Lord they will be gathered all together.'

This could indeed be referring to a celestial record of all things.

You are right. Anyone taking Islam from Quran can tell God also teaches us by means of external signs and it is all being recorded. We will be asked about things like that.

Quote
Now one thing you will immediately notice when dealing with the Qur’an only religion is that most of them do not even speak Arabic. Most of them try and appeal to converts (who have very poor or weak Arabic). They have a reason for doing this, because they prey upon the fact that you do not understand the Arabic and thus, are able to manipulate what the text says.

lol, projection. He sliced up 6:38. That's called manipulation of the text. He also hides the fact that one of the sectarian sources has this :

Quote
Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
(There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings) between the earth and sky, (but they are peoples) creations and servants (like unto you) they resemble you in eating, copulation, understanding one another, just as you understand one another: this is a sign for you. (We have neglected nothing in the Book) We have neglected nothing that We have inscribed in the Preserved Tablet; We have mentioned everything in the Qur'an. (Then unto their Lord they) the birds and beasts (will be gathered) with all other created beings on the Day of Judgement.

I dare him to publicly read his article by replacing our mention with Ibn Abbas and the sectarian source.

Knowing Arabic doesn't help. Otherwise, his people wouldn't have been following what's opposite to God's instructions in Quran.





"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Sarah

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 12:57:37 AM »
Peace

Sorry I didn't realise that you don't share the guy's views. I think it was because you didn't put his views in quotes. I wish he could see mine and other people answers here. Oh well. Anyway, he picked a few verses which may not have referred to following the Qur'an alone whilst ignoring other verses which do refer to following it alone.
'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

Fadiva

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2021, 08:26:28 AM »
Salam everyone,

1) Where did he took this slice of verse? He said that the "Quran only religion" (Who ? All of them? most of them? a few). Where is the url link so that one can check? Is it all about this only slice of verse?

2) Why not mentioning the whole verse just after? And what is before and after if clarifying?

3) Can't one be clarified about the book mentioned in this verse just by reading the whole verse, more verses or the whole Quran?

4) What about the non Arabic readers who read the translations from ARABIC people and came to the conclusion that they can't use external sources as laws of Allah?

Sania Haque

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2021, 09:41:16 AM »
Salam everyone,

1) Where did he took this slice of verse? He said that the "Quran only religion" (Who ? All of them? most of them? a few). Where is the url link so that one can check? Is it all about this only slice of verse?

2) Why not mentioning the whole verse just after? And what is before and after if clarifying?

3) Can't one be clarified about the book mentioned in this verse just by reading the whole verse, more verses or the whole Quran?

4) What about the non Arabic readers who read the translations from ARABIC people and came to the conclusion that they can't use external sources as laws of Allah?

What do you expect from a sectarian. They literally themselves manipulate the verses of Quran and then accuse us of doing that 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Sania Haque

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Re: Ah what? Quran does not contain all details?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2021, 09:43:51 AM »
Peace

Sorry I didn't realise that you don't share the guy's views. I think it was because you didn't put his views in quotes. I wish he could see mine and other people answers here. Oh well. Anyway, he picked a few verses which may not have referred to following the Qur'an alone whilst ignoring other verses which do refer to following it alone.

Aaaaaaaaaa..... Sorry i have not yet learnt how to use the features of the forum. So i didn't bother trying to locate the color change option..... Nevermind i just saw it. Sorry ,  :-[