Author Topic: is it okay to work in a bank  (Read 1148 times)

tutti_frutti

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2021, 03:01:00 PM »
salam good logic

my understanding is interest is a big no ... small or big it changes nothing

making profit from lending money is forbidden

for selling and buying currency (or stock market) i do not know ...
is that riba? or could we call that gambling as one is speculating ?
if it is riba then definately forbidden ... if it is gambling then it is to be avoided (as per 5:90)

riba is forbidden.. small or big does not matter ... if you lend money and make profit from that then it is a very big NO

whatever you define “riba” to be it is definately forbidden ... my understanding is riba is lending money at an increased price

but let me put it this way
 ... do you think it is okay to work in business which deals in the interest
(knowing interest IS forbideen ... so question here does not debate what is riba but understands riba is interest and forbidden and as such question is being employed in a business dealing with it riba)

peace

Jafar

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2021, 08:05:56 PM »
There are 'Sharia Banks', where they don't use 'interest' to make profit.

The 'scheme' is for example 'murabaha', bank 'buy' the asset / object for X price and charge X + Bank Profit to the end-user, where the end-user will pay X + Bank Profit amount in installments over period of time.

But is it truly really because of 'interest'?

What if the amount of Bank Profit charged under 'murabaha' scheme is significantly higher than 'interest'?
Which is happening in today's Sharia Bank.

Let's do a simple example:
Customer: Pete
Object: Home mortgage, $100
Period: 1 Year

A. Sharia Bank: Murabaha Scheme, Bank Profit = 15%
Total amount that need to be paid by Pete to the Bank within one year = $115

B. Non Sharia Bank, Interest Scheme, Annual Interest rate = 3%
Total amount that need to be paid by Pete to the Bank within one year = $103

Many "Sharia Bank" does argue that the differences in total amount to be paid by the customer is considered to be "Premium to avoid sin".  :rotfl: And that's how they 'marketed' their 'Sharia scheme', a scheme to avoid sin (although cost more).

good logic

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2021, 12:47:42 AM »
Peace tutti-frutti.

You say, quote:

"making profit from lending money is forbidden"

CAN YOU PROVIDE THE VERSE/S THAT SAY THAT?
Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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tutti_frutti

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2021, 08:54:28 AM »
salam good logic

what do you mean provide a verse that says that lending money for a profit is forbidden?

is that not what riba is? is riba not interest??

i mean unless you define riba as something else than interest

i take riba to mean interest on lending money, but i guess maybe i am wrong

please share your definition of riba

thank you

peace

good logic

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2021, 10:52:50 AM »
Peace tutti-frutti.
Riba is USURY.  Big greed -big interest or big profit-
Or are those that make reasonable profit not making a small interest . They are both the same.
GOD bless you,
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

tutti_frutti

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2021, 03:30:19 PM »
salam good logic

okay so you define it as large/excessive profit
perhaps you are correct

but is big profit on other things than lending money not usury ... ?? no one forces a person to buy something ! so is a hermes or chanel bag usury??? is a mercedes or prosche usury??? is an apartment in a good location usury?? is offering first class on airplanes usury?? is a fancy restaurant dwelling in usury?

anyways i understand riba as interest on monetary loans - big or small profit does not change for me
i understand riba is making profit from lending money ... one person is in need of some money and one lends them for profit ... that is taking advantage of them in my opinion and that is not an honest action

that is my understanding

peace

jkhan

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2021, 08:21:40 PM »
salam good logic

okay so you define it as large/excessive profit
perhaps you are correct

but is big profit on other things than lending money not usury ... ?? no one forces a person to buy something ! so is a hermes or chanel bag usury??? is a mercedes or prosche usury??? is an apartment in a good location usury?? is offering first class on airplanes usury?? is a fancy restaurant dwelling in usury?

anyways i understand riba as interest on monetary loans - big or small profit does not change for me
i understand riba is making profit from lending money ... one person is in need of some money and one lends them for profit ... that is taking advantage of them in my opinion and that is not an honest action

that is my understanding

peace

3:130 "O you who have believed, do not consume usury, doubled and multiplied, but fear Allah that you may be successful"

I agree with Goodlogic...
Isn't the above verse a clear definition of what 'Riba' is?...
Remember well in every world language there is Usury and interest and both are not same for sure..
God has allowed Trading (trade anything which gives the one who invest in it a reasonable amount of profit) God has not specified what to trade and what not to trade.. That's Upto us.. But be ethical..
Meanwhile God has manifestly forbidden 'Riba'(usury)...
We should clearly understand  why God connected Riba with Trading... That's key... In most cases in trading only Riba takes place.. In any type of trading Riba can creep in depending on the situation of buyer and demand ..
If the genuine price is 1 USD and if you sell it for 4 USD then it is clearly Riba in trading... You can't have trade like that..
In the case of lending money....  It is trading... No one will give money to another without having it recorded.. Whatever recorded is trading.. Coz the borrower has to return..
Poor nations borrow from rich nations and various banks all recorded and need to b repayed on time... Not the amount borrowed but definitely more but not "doubled and multiplied".. That's trading...
That's the profit for lender after years.. What if there is no interest and return the same amount after 20 years.. That's a loss for the lender.. So it is clearly a  trading...
In trading be it money or goods or service,  you can't keep exorbitant profit, that's for sure Riba (usury) and not profit...

Usage of luxury at higher price is nowhere near to Riba... It is the market price for luxury... IF NEEDED can approach.. No harm..

Look at this example..
An employee working in a firm and every month he contribute certain percentage from his salary for EPF.. He can only take once he retire.. So if no interest is added to it, he will only get devalued amount after ages.. He invested for his old age when he was young.. This is trading not Riba..
You can only trade which has value.. Currency has of course value like goods and services... So you can trade money...

Root of Riba is always very high or multitude max. Upto four...

So.. Riba is not in dealing lending money only, but in every dealing of money where one keeps exorbitant exploitation unfairly...

That's why Trading is never same as Riba...
Trading is allowed when there is no Riba involved.. Trading is not trading if Riba involved... You can't trade as you wish...

I wind up with this example...
Everyone sells 12 eggs for 5USD when given money.. But for the one who says I pay later he sells 12 eggs at the price of 10USD .. That's Riba... But still trading.. But in the sight of God it is not trading but Riba.. Not allowed... Forbidden.. They would say it is like trading but No.. Clear violation of ethics..

So.. Working in a bank which is trading has no objection in Quran.. Working in trading shop which sells at exorbitant price is of course not encouraging coz cheating and exploitation of poor people's situation is taking place...

In fact having a decent banking system throughout the world is really encouraging... If no banks,  people would have approached rich to get their financial needs in that case still we would be seeing the practice of usury.. Further market price is controlled by every government so there also usury is minimized...

tutti_frutti

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2021, 09:59:15 PM »
salam jkhan

thank you for your reply

i agree that gaining exorbitant profits is not okay and i personally equate that with theft and cheating

whether that is what riba is i do not know
i still personally think riba is gaining interest on lending money

if The God permits me i will reflect more on it and look into the verses you provided

thank you

peace

Jafar

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Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2021, 10:19:39 AM »
When Quran was being written, there were no 'banks' around, no 'fiat' currency, the only thing that exist might be an individual or group of individual who operated as what's today commonly known as loan shark.

So to understand this, maybe you can learn by examining how 'loan shark' operate, what's their scheme and what do you think about it.

Here's a fresh news about Mafia Loan Shark.

Coronavirus: The lure of mafia money during the crisis
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52537573

As crisis is a harvesting time for the loan shark..