Author Topic: Intelligent sunni Muslims  (Read 983 times)

Sarah

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Intelligent sunni Muslims
« on: January 19, 2021, 06:18:30 PM »
Peace

Why do intelligent sunni Muslims such as Mohammed Hijab not question the validity of hadith? He always points out things such as inconsistencies, contradictions etc. in arguments so why can't people like him do the same for hadith?
'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

Layth

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2021, 11:50:55 PM »
Peace,

Because understanding the Quran has nothing to do with intelligence, but everything to do with purity of heart & mind from polytheism.

“None can grasp it but the pure” (56:79)
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

good logic

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2021, 01:56:51 AM »
What is intelligence?

Real intelligence is to start to see things from the heart not the "brain".
To me, intelligence of the ego is foolishness.
Abraham used his GOD given intelligence to search for his creator and submit to  HIM.

We cannot possibly know who is intelligent  and who is not by GOD s definition and knowledge.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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hawk99

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2021, 08:47:47 AM »
Peace,

Because understanding the Quran has nothing to do with intelligence, but everything to do with purity of heart & mind from polytheism.

“None can grasp it but the pure” (56:79)

I agree

Sister Sarah don't conflate cultural devotion with intelligence.


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Amra94

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2021, 09:15:29 AM »
In a video where this guy asks him why the prophet married an 8 year old he was like "first of all she was 9." Smh like it makes a difference. And then went on about how the Quran doesnt prohibit child marriage etc. People like him always trying to make Quran look bad when defending their hadiths.
He may appear smart to people in this life but most of his knowledge is falsehood. Most follow falsehood so they consider what he says smart.

tutti_frutti

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2021, 09:32:00 AM »
salam

i would like to please share my understanding about 56:79

the word as per my understanding is “touch” and not “grasp/understand” ...

i understand that the verse is a commandment that non should touch the Book except the clean/purified as per wudu (5:6)

so personally, i do not touch the Quran or read from it unless i do wudu as per 5:6

peace

good logic

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2021, 11:46:54 AM »
Peace.
Quote  from brother tf:
"so personally, i do not touch the Quran or read from it unless i do wudu as per 5:6"

5:6 has nothing to do with touching Qoran. Its subject is "the salat".
What you say is not from Qoran,it is hadith based.

I agree with the explanation of Layth.. The pure in heart will have access to it.

 Coming back to intelligence, if it has to do with winning argument to mislead people, then Iblees is the most intelligent of creatures.
Iblees managed to mislead Adam to change from the perfect position of existence in GOD s kingdom into the worse existence to live here on earth.
Iblees  used his intelligence and won the argument. So what is the big deal about being intelligent from our prospective?
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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tutti_frutti

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2021, 12:49:00 PM »
salam good logic

it is not “hadith based”

i am translating the word literaly as i understand it

i understand the word means “touch” so that is exactly how i will understand it The God willing

and i will not risk it just to be “different” and start intepreting where there is no need to
(the way i read the Quran is that i take the Book literally and do not interpret)

unless my arabic is bad ... i think the word means “touch” ... so why not understand it as “touch”?? why intepret?? touch means touch

and “clean” i believe means wudu as we are told to do wudu before “salat” ... and i think “salat” is physical prayer and reading/studying the Quran from sunset all the way to dawn + a middle prayer on day of gathering

what do we do in “salat”? i believe in salat we engage in prostration and sujud to pray and implore for help, forgiveness, ...  and to glorify The Creator and we also read from the Quran ...
 so by deduction (not interpretation) i believe “clean” means wudu

so i do wudu before i touch or read from the Quran

:)

peace

Sarah

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2021, 01:36:35 PM »
Peace

Thanks for the answers.

@Layth, I guess those who seek purity and truth tend to find it. Great point.

@Good logic, You make a good point on the definition of intelligence especially in the eyes of God. There are different types of intelligence and I was referring to book smarts.

@Hawk, it's not his 'cultural devotion' which makes him intelligent, it's his book smarts. He knows all these various facts which he brings up in arguments. He mentions so many books he's read, can quote from the top of his head, he's articulate, his terminology is expansive and he's great at arguing with atheists. He also seems to have a good amount of interpersonal skills since he's much more pleasant to watch and listen to in terms of his behaviour than some of the other Sunni Muslims at Speaker's Corner. That's why I wonder why someone like him can't see through hadith.



'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

hawk99

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2021, 01:51:20 PM »
salam good logic



so i do wudu before i touch or read from the Quran

:)

peace

Peace tutti frutti, when you recite Quran from memory do you make wudu first?


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Sarah

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2021, 04:55:39 PM »
@Amra, obviously child marriage is disgusting and wrong. That's part of hadith anyway remember so I wonder why he doesn't use his common sense. Perhaps it's the fear he'll go to hell if he doesn't believe in it. I bet he wouldn't have tried to justify it using the Qur'an if he didn't believe in hadith since he obv interprets it through the 'hadith filter'.
'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

Aclon

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2021, 07:35:57 PM »
well to be sure, he was just not that intelligence to me. What i think of him is just his pride is too much to not see the flaws in it. that's the problem with sunni muslim so they were not intelligence at all.

kninjahman

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Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2021, 05:56:24 AM »
Peace!

I believe the answer to your question has to do with "sophistry" or that Brand Islam (and indeed all religions) are Sophistic - meaning that they APPEAR to be correct even though they are incorrect.

For a believer who practices a set system and then gains various benefits from practising such a system, they believe the system they are following is the correct one because it is confirmed to them by the results that they themselves and others around them are getting from practising that system.

The problem is that the whole system they are practising actually is NOT correct - but the parts that are correct serve to blind them from the parts that are incorrect.

I believe this is why the Qur'an warns us about people dividing into sects AFTER the revelations have come to them. I also believe this is why the God says in the Qur'an that it doesn't matter if you are Jew or Sabien, what matters is that you honour your parents, are kind to orphans, you give charity to the traveller etc.

It's all morals and dogma's - the morals are what is important - the dogmas are often designed to try and build morals but they can often cause divides instead when people don't have an understanding of what's going on.

Let's face it: Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially all preach the same message of peace, mercy, forgiveness, kindness etc. and yet at the same time the news is plagued with these groups attacking each other.

Furthermore particularly within Islam there is a lot of culture that has been mixed in with the religion - and Muslims are not ashamed to admit that certain practices are more of a cultural thing that an Islamic thing.

Man kind seems to make the same mistakes - and that's fine: God alone will judge between them on what they disputed, what is important is for us as individuals to submit to God alone.


From what I can make out from my own research: the entire Islamic history has been distorted if not completely fabricated. But what does it matter? We have the Qur'an. God knows who's who and what's what.

Muslims are guilty of the exact same mistakes of both the Jews and the Christians even though Muslims are very well aware of the mistakes of the other two religions. Muslims KNOW (or should do, it's in their scripture) that the Jews made the mistake of changing God's revelation and then completely abandoning it in favour of following "traditions of Moses" aka Talmud.

Muslims KNOW that the Christians have made a grave mistake in elevating Jesus to Godhood status and worshipping Jesus when he clearly never taught such a teaching.

And yet Muslims are guilty of doing both - they have abandoned the Qur'an in favour of Haddith and they have elevated Muhammad to be besides God.

Thus religions get people because they are SOPHISTIC. This is wisdom, Sophia, being able to discern the truth from the sophistry because the sophistry appears very much like the truth that it fools so many people.

When a non-religious person joins a religion they are swept off their feet by all the kindness from their new brothers and sisters. They begin to pray and receive the benefits that come with that - they begin to give to charity and they receive the benefits which come with that - all of these things serve to reinforce that the religion they have chosen is the correct one.

It is only through sincere study of text and BELIEVING THE TEXT rather that the pastor or mullah that one concludes the truth of the matter which is: the correct way is submission to God, to not divide into sects with each being happy with what it has, disputing with the others.

God alone knows who the believers are and you will find them in many diverse religions up until they realise that no man made religion is correct - what is correct is what God teaches us in the scripture.

Hence religions can be both good things and bad things - whereas the revelations and teachings of God Almighty are never bad, only good.

I honestly believe this is the biggest deception the devil has ever pulled: the trick of sophistry.

Peace,
kninjahman