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Anyone Support Experiments and Professionals' Help to Get to Verse Meanings

Started by reel, December 19, 2020, 04:27:11 AM

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jkhan

Quote from: reel on December 23, 2020, 05:13:33 AM
lol, bro, there we have it! That's what I have been saying. Sometimes for the logic we do need to look into the field the verse is about. Consider the ones about human anatomy or astronomy. Do you think we would understand without knowledge from those fields?

Thanks, I will check the link. I don't depend on one single translation. I like checking the Arabic words myself. All of us do use academic stuffs. I just want this to be made official. I also like experimenting. It helped me understand a lot stays hidden if that is not done.

Sister Reel Peace..
We know actually who Professionals are.. Coz they are much known to everyone in their field.no need their profile.. That prompts people to approach their assistance / knowledge. Kids learn coz of teachers who are erudite more than them.. So professionals are much profound possessing wider range or spectrum of knowledge in certain field than general person/s... In that angle we all should agree..
But why I said we have to be much vigilant,  coz we should not make anyone our scholar when it comes to Quran.. How one make another a scholar? Scholar says something and the one who questioned accepts and follows.. God says to explore Quran and keep locking our heart won't work out.. We can't restrict and lock ourselves to others understanding... But we should keep exploring..
How we explore?  That's key.. First of all we should have standard or possibly higher education..  Then We should thoroughly read Quran..
Remember no one can claim he is thorough in Quran and he is professional in it.. Rest of the field people can claim they are professional in the chosen faculty ....  Coz Quran's guidance is from God to whom He wills.. That's irrevocable ..
Having said that I would like to mention another point..
As you say or we all know that Quran has mentioned various matters which are related with certain faculty of education..  Whoever is thorough in those fields is obviously professional..
But Sister Reel.. Professional's statement and what God has stated shouldn't contradict.. Here comes the controversial point.. Coz professional's statements are much more accepted and worldwide renowned and commended.. So normal people talking against them is considered much fragile.. Coz they would ask what is your qualification in this field to voice against a professional.. Of course fair enough..
But We may have understood Quran better than the professional of certain field but we may not tally with professional ..
Subsequently either we have to leave professional or accept Quran or vice versa..
Best example about Evolution... Professional are of the view it is evolution and not creation... Professional giving that statement of evolution with much research and experiment perhaps.. But God's verses are just verses.. One may lean towards professional's statement coz it has more weight coz of loads of research..
Or take the most heated topic.. Professionals are of the view that this Earth is spherical and spinning.. But.. It is our duty to explore Quran as well to know about our world we are living.. If simply take the knowledge of professional what Quran explains will also be undisputedly spinning Earth..  I know for most on earth, it is still spinning even with the knowledge  of Quran... No harm.. Coz that's their understanding of Quran.. .. But.. Why depend on professional merely and giving them more authority and believing in them 100% overpowering their professional research to what Quran says..
We can't surrender to professional's view but we can learn from them and if we are certain that professional's view is not right then no need to feel shameful to speak against them until they furnish a meaningful reply if they really are professional ..
Take embryology etc etc within Quran.. For all we can take the input of professional,  but don't take them right if what you understood within Quran doesn't comply with their professional research or experiment...
That will only lead us to wittingly or unwittingly reject God's verses..
Coz We already believed in the existence of God with mercy of Him without any book ...  Then we took the Quran for guidance and for confirmation and not to deviate from the Existing belief of God without any book..
If anyone feels human research is right and what God stated is wrong Satan has won.. Coz this same book can misguide us.. Coz that's what Satan wants... Dupe us in intelligent way.. Coz Satan is much intelligent as he has deceived our father and majority on Earth..

So sister simply coz we don't understand or we are not jack of every faculty, we cannot go in line with professional.. That is our weakness..
So.. Steps to be done.. Cultivate knowledge as much as we can,  then explore Quran and compare professional's research, our understanding and compare everything with verses of God... Conclude what suits best.. If God will the guidance is so easy on every faculty of Quranic verses..

***** Intent of research of scientist or professional and intent of exploring  of believer is entirely different... Former is to convince their understanding or doubts  but later is to confirm what is written in Quran.. *****
Let us die with guidance

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reel

Quote from: jkhan on December 23, 2020, 06:58:49 AM

But why I said we have to be much vigilant,  coz we should not make anyone our scholar when it comes to Quran.. How one make another a scholar? Scholar says something and the one who questioned accepts and follows.. God says to explore Quran and keep locking our heart won't work out.. We can't restrict and lock ourselves to others understanding... But we should keep exploring..

Oh, we covered it previously here. No worries, we all agree that only God is the scholar of Quran. You do bring up an interesting point I didn't talk about. When the God fearing scholars and professionals of other fields we have here are not given a chance to speak about the verses many young ones among us have no chance but to look for info online and fall prey to orthodox priest like scientists who really make it look like their knowledge is as is and there is nothing more to explore. We do have a very sweet brother here who has written me countless pms to refute them. I can't always help because the experiment results I receive no more allow me to see the world as it is. Quran makes Quantum physics easy but then again I am not a scholar from that field. Someone else with knowledge needs to jump in. The brother has told me he sometimes feels like going for atheism because the mainstream scam scientists play with his mind.

Quote from: jkhan on December 23, 2020, 06:58:49 AM
But Sister Reel.. Professional's statement and what God has stated shouldn't contradict.. Here comes the controversial point.. Coz professional's statements are much more accepted and worldwide renowned and commended.. So normal people talking against them is considered much fragile.. Coz they would ask what is your qualification in this field to voice against a professional.. Of course fair enough..
But We may have understood Quran better than the professional of certain field but we may not tally with professional ..
Subsequently either we have to leave professional or accept Quran or vice versa..
Best example about Evolution... Professional are of the view it is evolution and not creation... Professional giving that statement of evolution with much research and experiment perhaps.. But God's verses are just verses..

Quran actually does support evolution. Ancient tafseers show that and also the Muslim scholars contributed a lot to the theory: http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/uoc/PDF-FILES/%2811%29%20Dr.%20Sultan%20Shah_86_2.pdf

There is just soo much hidden within Quran. Recall that the verses on biology. They gained attention only after two nonmuslim people from medicine explained what they were all about.


"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Neptin

I was hesitant to reply this thread at first because I don't see any chance of Experimenting and Professional research happening, even if we all agree. So, what's the point? It's akin to putting the cart before the horse.

Professional research and experiments only comes when you have an organized community with leaders. And Qur'anists are unorganized. Any proposal to organize Qur'anists is quickly deemed sectarian and divisive by individual Qur'anists.

It is when you have an organized community that you could form an institution to handle these things. So, if you don't trust NASA, you either have to blindly accept the geography, astronomy and cosmology ideas in the Qur'an, or you go conduct your own individual experiments.

That said, how do you even verify Qur'anic theories when there is no consensus on translation or interpretation? Does the Qur'an refer to a flat earth or round earth? Evolution or Creation? Muslims are divided on subjects as this.
Reclaiming Islam from extremism;
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reel

Quote from: Neptin on January 09, 2021, 02:43:53 AM
I was hesitant to reply this thread at first because I don't see any chance of Experimenting and Professional research happening, even if we all agree. So, what's the point? It's akin to putting the cart before the horse.

Professional research and experiments only comes when you have an organized community with leaders. And Qur'anists are unorganized. Any proposal to organize Qur'anists is quickly deemed sectarian and divisive by individual Qur'anists.

I am talking about privately experimenting.

Quote from: Neptin on January 09, 2021, 02:43:53 AM
That said, how do you even verify Qur'anic theories when there is no consensus on translation or interpretation? Does the Qur'an refer to a flat earth or round earth? Evolution or Creation? Muslims are divided on subjects as this.

I did a few and got dumbfounded by the results. A little bit of search made me realize a lot of them are already known by sufis and Asians who experiment with buddhist concepts. Then there is the Quantum physics. In short, God does show consistency in results. Looks like we are in a better position compared to Asians. They don't have a book to give them step by step instruction.

I don't think we will go anywhere by sticking to textual analysis esp when sunni mullahs confess to removing some word meanings from the dictionaries. Quranic culture seems to be extremely different compared to the one generally accepted by the world. 

Also through experiments, I have finally realized some verses that we all think are interpreted correctly in reality are incorrect. In a way, that's a good news.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Aclon

i wouldn't mind it, since professionals can be responsible about their own truth and not denying it with their own desire. not like fanatic neo-darwinism or fanatic creationism who still deny their own weakness and close the door to the knowledge about god creations. i do really hope this community have good linguistic researcher like brother joseph from quran centric. His view on paradise blew my mind that it's impossible that the purpose of paradise are 72 virgins. For evolution i'll stick to Intelligence design because its counter argument to random chance of mutation.
quran centric: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMI9ztQ07hS1MlmjQ9KS0uQ/featured